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    • Hi DX   I have amended the WS and I hope i have taken out the meaningless gibberish.    Thanks, Roland    IN THE County Court AT                                                                              CLAIM NO:      BETWEEN: CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED   -and- (DEFENDANT)     ___________________________________________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF      INTRODUCTION    1. I, XXXX, the Defendant in this case, make this statement in support of my defence against the Claimant, Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.  The matters set out below are within my own knowledge, except where I indicate to the contrary.    THE DEFENDANT’S RESPONSE TO THE CLAIMANT’S WITNESS STATEMENT    2. The Claimant states in Paragraph 3, ‘….refer to various documents, true copiesof which are contained in the paginated bundle to this statement marked “JK”1’, but then states in para 4, ‘Acopy of the reconstituted agreementwith associated terms and conditions….pages 1-10’. There is an Agreement and 2 sets of Terms & Conditions and according to para 4 they are not the original but ‘a reconstitutedversion’. The agreement in the JK1 exhibit on page 2 shows an agreement with my name, address and a date but no Account Number or Reference Number as the same was not mentioned in the Claimant’s Particulars Of Claim, which was addressed in my Defence Para 1, ‘the particulars of claim are vague and generic…’.    3. The Claimant’s Witness Statement does not state how the agreement was made, via telephone, post or electronically.   4. There are 2 sets of Terms & Conditions Pages 4-10 which does not show my name and address as per the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Request.    5. Pages 1-10 can easily be downloaded from various internet forums and image sites and have my details inserted with any picture manipulation software.   6. The Claimant states in Para 9 that my defence is a ‘templated defence’, requesting documents pursuant of CPR 31.14 and Section 78 of the Credit Card Act 1974, this is a defendant’s right for request of information but the Claimant has failed to provide the true original Credit Card Agreement and Terms & Conditions.   7. The Claimant states in Para 25 that, ‘the Claimant allowed the proceedings to be stayed in order to allow the parties to attempt settlement negotiations…..’ this is not correct as the Claim was stayed due to the Claimant not being able to provide the requested documents pursuant of my CPR 31.14 and Section 78 of the Credit Card Act 1974. 8. Para 30 and 31of the Witness Statement requests to restore the proceedings, to strike out the Defence, has requested for a Summary Judgement, together with costs to be assessed summarily by the court. I, the Defendant, strongly object to the Claimant’s Witness Statement requesting to lift the stay and enter Judgement. I believe therefore, that this should be denied and I respectfully ask for you to strike out the claim. My reasons for this have been outlined in points 1 to 7.  9. By the reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief and invite the Court to strike out the claim.     I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.    Signed:  Dated: 
    • Thanks ericsbrother, I'll get on to it.  It appears that they had taken on the contract that very morning, so I'm one of their very lucky first victims. Waaaay 
    • Yep I sent a copy to them also. Just send strange saying yes to then say no, I'm not used to all this though. It definitely doesn't come naturally to me 😕🙂 Will arrange a date ASAP!    Thank you again
    • @BearLake1   I have a similar PCN from the same place. I've just received 'Letter Before Claim' today. I wonder if you are able to share your reply to CVS? Did you send your reply by email or mail?   Thanks!
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Hi Everyone.

Was just wondering if i could ask a few questions?

Last week i got caught using my girlfriends freedom pass on the tube. The man (accompanied by a police officer) stopped me as i was coming out of a station. He took the freedom pass off me along with my details & said i would recieve a letter in the next 4-6 weeks stating what the next steps would be.

 

I was very appologetic & honest. I explained that i had just got a temp job in london for a week but because i had been out of work for a while & i didn't have any money, that i couldn't afford to get their. so whenever my girlfriend didnt take her pass with her to work, i took it (without her knowing). I think i used it 5 times in all but thats the only time ive ever used it & ive never been in any trouble with any law before in my life.

 

Ive read a few threads on here where people have said they've had to go to court.

 

Does anyone know what % of these cases go to court?

 

Also, i would like to send a letter explaining my actions before i recieve a letter from them. I would like to explain that its not that didnt want to pay my fare, its that i physically couldn't & i did something stupid out of desperation. I would also tell them that once i get paid for the temp work ive done that i would like to pay for the fares i avoided & any additional fees they seem approprate.

 

Does anyone know where i can send my letter too? I cant seem to find an address?

 

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Edited by markusv1

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opps could be difficult

 

you have admitted multiple fraudulant use of someone elses card.

 

this could get sticky for you.

 

as for the letter, await theirs first


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Hi Everyone.

Was just wondering if i could ask a few questions?

Last week i got caught using my girlfriends freedom pass on the tube. The man (accompanied by a police officer) stopped me as i was coming out of a station. He took the freedom pass off me along with my details & said i would recieve a letter in the next 4-6 weeks stating what the next steps would be.

 

I was very appologetic & honest. I explained that i had just got a temp job in london for a week but because i had been out of work for a while & i didn't have any money, that i couldn't afford to get their. so whenever my girlfriend didnt take her pass with her to work, i took it (without her knowing). I think i used it 5 times in all but thats the only time ive ever used it & ive never been in any trouble with any law before in my life.

 

Ive read a few threads on here where people have said they've had to go to court.

 

Does anyone know what % of these cases go to court?

 

Also, i would like to send a letter explaining my actions before i recieve a letter from them. I would like to explain that its not that didnt want to pay my fare, its that i physically couldn't & i did something stupid out of desperation. I would also tell them that once i get paid for the temp work ive done that i would like to pay for the fares i avoided & any additional fees they seem approprate.

 

Does anyone know where i can send my letter too? I cant seem to find an address?

 

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

 

From responses on CAG it appears most Freedom Pass abuse cases detected go to court, TfL take abuse of these passes seriously, as they are:

a) funded from the public purse, and

b) offered to some of the most disadvantaged.

 

Again, summarising previous responses, I've seen reasons why its not a good idea to write before you've received a letter from them:

i) if they have mislaid the paperwork you'll be "handing them the info on a plate",

ii) if you wait for a letter you'll have a reference number : without this they may have your letter and nothing to link it to / file it with,

iii) you won't know the details of what you are being accused of, and under which statute or Bylaw.

 

They are unlikely to be moved by "I couldn't afford to pay to travel". That might be seen by a court as mitigation, but not a defence.

 

You can try and persuade them to persue an alternative to court, but I fear you'll likely not succeed : no harm in trying, though.

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Thanks for the info BazzaS. So you recommend trying persuade them to persue an alternative to court, but not until i recieve their letter 1st?

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That is all you can try and do, negotiate with them when you receive a letter.

 

Realistically though, I don't think anybody (on this and other forums) has managed to get an out of court settlement arranged for intentional abuse of a freedom pass.

 

TfL are not particularly interested in making money from these prosecutions. They have every intention to prosecute where sufficient evidence exists. They will get their costs and compensation anyway as part of the conviction process.

 

Section 5(3a) - Regulation of Railways Act 1889 is likely to be the listed offence as you deliberately intended to avoid paying the correct fare, by using a ticket you had effectively stolen, and when stopped, you further admitted to doing so on multiple occasions, with your justification being you did not enough money to pay. I'd say there is about a 95% chance of this going to court.

 

If it was to transpire your partner knew that you had been using her pass, or gave it to you, then she too, is also liable to be prosecuted.

Edited by firstclassx

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If i knew it was this serious an offence i wouldn't have taken the jobto begin with. I didnt think it would of gone beyond a fine... i guess i was just being nieve.

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fair comment

 

we all makes poor judgements sometimes

 

dont forget that in your letter too.

 

dx


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That is all you can try and do, negotiate with them when you receive a letter.

 

Realistically though, I don't think anybody (on this and other forums) has managed to get an out of court settlement arranged for intentional abuse of a freedom pass.

 

TfL are not particularly interested in making money from these prosecutions. They have every intention to prosecute where sufficient evidence exists. They will get their costs and compensation anyway as part of the conviction process.

 

Section 5(3a) - Regulation of Railways Act 1889 is likely to be the listed offence as you deliberately intended to avoid paying the correct fare, by using a ticket you had effectively stolen, and when stopped, you further admitted to doing so on multiple occasions, with your justification being you did not enough money to pay. I'd say there is about a 95% chance of this going to court.

 

If it was to transpire your partner knew that you had been using her pass, or gave it to you, then she too, is also liable to be prosecuted.

 

In my earlier reply : I'd considered stating what I'd previously believed :

a) pass owner knew of fraudulent use : they are liable for transferring the pass (still the situation to my knowledge) or

b) taken without the pass owner's consent = theft. It is this I'm no longer sure of, hence why I omitted posting these.

 

Is it theft?. It is misappropriation, but if there is no intent to permanently deprive, it isn't theft?.

 

So, (regarding only the theft aspect), it might then be non-prejudicial to say "I took it without permission, intending to return it".

The issue may then become "OK, but what did you expect to happen if you were caught with the pass", as the OP was .....

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/6

 

“With the intention of permanently depriving the other of it".

(1)A person appropriating property belonging to another without meaning the other permanently to lose the thing itself is nevertheless to be regarded as having the intention of permanently depriving the other of it if his intention is to treat the thing as his own to dispose of regardless of the other’s rights; and a borrowing or lending of it may amount to so treating it if, but only if, the borrowing or lending is for a period and in circumstances making it equivalent to an outright taking or disposal.

 

(2)Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) above, where a person, having possession or control (lawfully or not) of property belonging to another, parts with the property under a condition as to its return which he may not be able to perform, this (if done for purposes of his own and without the other’s authority) amounts to treating the property as his own to dispose of regardless of the other’s rights.

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My girlfriend did not give me permission to use it. She had starting walking to work in the mornings & hadnt been using it lately so whenever she'd left it in the house, i used it. I know what i did was wrong but i didnt think it would be considered as theft because its my partners & i only borrowed it for a short period of time... i guess its a really complicated situation. I'll have to try & get that message across when i reply to their letter.

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Hello there.

 

You'll find plenty of other freedom pass threads on the forum if you use the search tool, it might be helpful for you to see what happened to other people.

 

The guys are right, writing before you have TfL's letter is unlikely to be productive, better to wait.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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