Just had a verbal Notice of My Job being made redundant.

[ceedy]

Hi all,

Writing this for my daughter actually..

Yesterday , completely out of the blue , my daugther and 3 others were called to a meeting and told of their position ( in my daughters case, an assistant Editor) was to be made redundant.

She has been in this post for the last 5 years.

She was told that she could apply for voluntary, but this offer, with no details whatsoever is only available for about 24 hours or so . ??

 

So far there is no indication of any written notice appearing .

 

The actual current editorial work is still on going and is most definitely going to to be passed to another "safe" employee" .

The contract of employment aligns basically with the legal minimums . for 5 yrs 5 X weeks salary.

 

It also has a clause stating my daughter is NOT allowed to be employed in a similar capacity with any publishing company for a minimum of 6 months ?.

Is this enforceable ?? or legal ?

 

Any redployment looks unlikely as the local workforace is very smaill in number and the only cummute option is 120 miles by train..so with 2 kiddies not an option.

 

My daughter has only recently returned to work from maternity leave ( she is a single parent) and during that time, the HR dept made a total hashup of the p-leave and accused my daughter of not apply for it .( this after 8mths !) . But having kept copies and emails we were able to show the HR manger was lying about the situation and she had to eventually back down. Because of this , we have a suspicion this is slightly more than a business decision , rather more personal ! well one would wouldn't one .

I know this is a long story .. but Any advice peeps ??

 

thanks in advance..

 

Chris

Edited January 17, 2013 by ceedy

[borisbeaver]

Any notice of redundancy must be in writing.

[ceedy]

Thanks for the reply ,

 

Typically .. just after posting this , an Email came through, with attached letter.

 

Which give time for a meeting tomorrow (friday) , with HR and MD, to discuss ,

 

1. the selection of the current role for redundancy

2. Chances of re-deployment

3 The amounts of R-Pay to be offered and any other payments

 

Will see what is going on then ! .

 

C.

[Sidewinder]

Any notice of redundancy must be in writing.

 

Agreed - and there should be a consultation first - she should be notified of being 'at risk' in the first instance, and given a consultation period in which to explore any alternatives to redundancy - unless the whole entity is closing down.

[Emmzzi]

if compulsory redundancy is all that is on offer for going voluntarily, then there is no advantage in putting your hand up. May as well sit it out. If the VR offer is significantly better obviously that changes things. So it's worth doing the calculation to be well informed.

[ceedy]

Agreed - and there should be a consultation first - she should be notified of being 'at risk' in the first instance, and given a consultation period in which to explore any alternatives to redundancy - unless the whole entity is closing down.

 

Actually the person who notifed yesterday said quite definitively " your job is now redundant"., and now there's the consultation ? ...

 

Does sound about par for the course at this place ..

 

C.

[borisbeaver]

Actually the person who notifed yesterday said quite definitively " your job is now redundant"., and now there's the consultation ? ...

 

Does sound about par for the course at this place ..

 

C.

And off you trot to the ET for breach of process.

 

As Sidewinder says, unless the whole company goes foobar, there must be a consultation period. I seem to recall that it should be at least 30 days. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Emmzzi]

https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/consultation

[becky2585]

Are you sure that the original meeting wasn't a notification of being "at risk" of redundancy rather than actually being notified she was being made redundant?

[Pusillanimous]

It also has a clause stating my daughter is NOT allowed to be employed in a similar capacity with any publishing company for a minimum of 6 months ?.

Is this enforceable ?? or legal ?

 

Any redployment looks unlikely as the local workforace is very smaill in number and the only cummute option is 120 miles by train..so with 2 kiddies not an option.

 

My daughter has only recently returned to work from maternity leave ( she is a single parent) and during that time, the HR dept made a total hashup of the p-leave and accused my daughter of not apply for it .( this after 8mths !) . But having kept copies and emails we were able to show the HR manger was lying about the situation and she had to eventually back down. Because of this , we have a suspicion this is slightly more than a business decision , rather more personal ! well one would wouldn't one .

I know this is a long story .. but Any advice peeps ??

 

thanks in advance..

 

Chris

 

Your daughter needs to look at her Contract of Employment to see whether she is bound by it not to work for a competitor within those terms.

 

The second thing she needs to do is ask who is in the redundancy pool (presumably the group you mention) and what will will be the objective criteria for selection. So, if your daughter is better qualified/experienced has longer service, etc, than the person taking over her job, then it could be discrimination because of the maternity leave, if the other person is, say male, or thier face fits better.

 

If say, there are to be four redundancies and there is a potential pool of say, nine (the other people in her team), she needs to ask how she was objectively selected, as opposed to those who will remain. Care, though: you don't overdue it, you don't want to alert them into suddenly "playing by the rules" just for show for the tribunal, you need to catch them in flagrante breach of redundancy selection, as the onus is on them to get it right. They bear the burden of proof to show the dismissal by redundancy was fair.

 

So, get the basic information and then relax.

[Pusillanimous]

I seem to recall that it should be at least 30 days. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I seem to recall it is only mandatory if there is a workforce of over 300 and there is a union. I think this government may have recently got rid of all that.

 

Some consultation is expected, not sure it is 30 days, except as above.

[Sidewinder]

There is no strict time period for consultation, but as with most matters it should be 'reasonable' taking into account the circumstances. It should certainly allow the employee to digest the fact that they are at risk, to prepare a list of questions to ask and/or proposals for the employer to consider before making a selection or confirming the redundancy and for all alternatives to dismissal being thoroughly considered.

[stu007]

Hi

 

This is the ACAS Link on Redundancy: http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1611

 

and this PDF:

[becky2585]

I seem to recall it is only mandatory if there is a workforce of over 300 and there is a union. I think this government may have recently got rid of all that.

 

Some consultation is expected, not sure it is 30 days, except as above.

 

You're correct that it isn't mandatory.

 

The law says that if an employer is proposing to make 20 or more people redundant at one establishment within a three month period, they must consult for a minimum of 30 days. If 100 or more are being made redundant, the mandatory consultation period increases to 90 days.

 

The union comes into play in those situations in terms of collectively consulting with a recognised trade union, but if there isn't a union there's still an obligation to consult with employee representatives.

 

Finally, whilst the government has announced it's intention to halve the 90 day consultation requirement to 45 days, it's not in force yet and the other legal consultation obligations are not affected by the change. The legislation will come into effect in April 2013.

[ceedy]

Well there was a meeting today,

 

And the the company are "restructuring " .. both at head office in London and down in this satelite dept in Dorset.

20 or So in London at risk and 4 down here .

So here 3 jobs are disappearing and being lobbed in together under a new title.

And this job is up for grabs and Daughter has been asked to apply for it , as she is the most qualified .

 

At the other end of the scale .. the redundancy package offer is ..

 

5 yrs X 1 weeks wages Per .. standard stuff.

 

an Ex gratia ? payment equiv to about 5 weeks salary

 

Plus 5 weeks salary in lieu of Notice .

 

Not sure what this ex gratia is ?? , but Holiday pay ( a full years @ 30 Days ) is not mentioned any where.

( This could be another 5 weeks or so of salary) ?

 

C..

[Pusillanimous]

Ex gratia simply means a pay-off which is tax free up to £32,000 (might have changed slightly). All the other payments would be subject to normal Income Tax.

 

Take heart, someone I knew was warned of risk of redundancy recently (at an academic institution). However, she kept her job whilst some of her colleagues sadly got bad news.

 

Your daughter might be successful. It will be important to show enthusiasm for the role, technical knowledge (this might be one of the objective criteria) high performance levels (so ensure she has reviewed all of her achievements so that she doesn't have to think hard about it at any interview); read up on the company (treat it as an ordinary job application). Oh, and good luck!

[ceedy]

Looks like she did not get the new position ..

 

So its back to sorting out the monies due to here .. Still no mention of the 30 odd days outstanding holiday .. by the company .?.

 

 

C.

[ericsbrother]

It is common for employers to rewrite job descriptions when restructuring and either word it so it is tailor made for a particular applicant or to put off certain employees. Sometimes people dont take a hint and get told that "their" job is being filled by so-and-so. The process is supposed to be non-discriminatory and the new jobs open to all within the old structure but it often doesnt work that way. If your daughter is being given 5 weeks salary in lieu of notice them that uses up the holiday allowance aprt from 1 weeks worth. She needs to make sure that she is paid this as normal pay.

Is your daughter happy with the procedures used in respect to her knowledge of the organisation both before and after restructuring? If she feels that they are discriminatory that can be taken up with an Employment Tribunal but to do that she has to refuse the severance package so quite a financial risk in the short term and possibly in the long term as well if she loses her claim. She shouls ask her company to pay for an hours time for a lawyer to look over the deal to make sure that it is properly done. Most sizeable companies do this as a matter of course as it removes any comeback at a later date.

[ceedy]

From scurrying around the web , it does seem that Pilon and or Holiday pay is a very rather grey subject ?..

Any opinons seem varied ?

 

Even Gov's Business Link site tells employers to pay for holiday accrued to the end of the notice period whether it is worked or not?

 

Also in the 1st letter ( 16th Jan ) , the invite to a consultation meeting , there is a statement ..

to discuss

 

"The amount of redundancy pay you would receive and any other relevant payments/deductions if relevant ( please note that for the purpose of calculations the date of the 2nd January 2013 will be used, this date is subject to change) ".

 

Any clue what this bit means ?

Not mentioning a date in an attempt to backdate the redundancy ?

 

C.

Edited January 23, 2013 by ceedy

[ceedy]

Daughter has finally received some payment in the post .

 

Nice lack of detail in the attached letter.

 

It would seem that she has been taxed on her PILON.

Which I believe to be wrong, as there is no mention of PILON in her contact of employment.

And from what I can see this means this type of payment is then classed as compensation and therefore not a taxable amount .

 

Am I correct here ? bearing in mind the para below !!

 

C.

 

PS the only para in a similar view in the contract is :

"If in the opinion of the company it is considered appropriate, the comapny reserves the right at any time after notice of termination has been given, to lawfully terminate your employment with immediate effect, by paying to you an amount equal to your basic salary and accrued holiday pay for the then unexpired period of your notice ".

Edited February 6, 2013 by ceedy

[Emmzzi]

Redundancy payments are not taxed but Pilon may be. Best call hmrc.

[ceedy]

Redundancy payments are not taxed but Pilon may be. Best call hmrc.

 

Just had a reply from the company HR who say the Redundancy and Exs gratia have not been taxed but the Pilon has ..

 

C.

[Emmzzi]

That'd be normal as it is pay not redundancy. Talk to hmrc about rebates if applicable as is not end of the tax year yet.