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I got caught with an out of date train ticket going through the barriers at birmingham station. The ticket inspector cautioned me like he was a police officer and wrote down all these notes. What will happen to me next, im dying to know. I dont want a criminal record....

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Have moved your thread to the Public Transport forums, where the experts hang out :)


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I am new to this site, sorry about that. How do i navigate there??

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I got caught with an out of date train ticket going through the barriers at birmingham station. The ticket inspector cautioned me like he was a police officer and wrote down all these notes. What will happen to me next, im dying to know. I dont want a criminal record....

 

It is likely that you will get a letter from the rail company within about 4 - 6 weeks asking you to give your explanation in writing. Don't ignore the letter, to do so will guarantee that you will be prosecuted for attempted fare evasion.

 

When you get that letter, come back here and tell us exactly what it says.

 

There is little point in trying to defend the issue until you know exactly what has been reported and you will not have the reference allocated to your case until that letter arrives.

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ok. Thank you so much. Im going out of my mind here, that i will not be able to go to America. Yes i will definately come back here and update the situation.

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ok. Thank you so much. Im going out of my mind here, that i will not be able to go to America. Yes i will definately come back here and update the situation.

 

Don't worry too much at this stage, there is every chance that this can be resolved provided that you did nothing really silly when you were spoken to by the revenue inspector

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What will happen to me next, im dying to know..

Sounded almost excited there....

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No No No. not at all. I'm just impatient and hate waiting. I just want to find out now so I can deal with the consequences. =(

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how can a ticket inspector caution anyone, I thought it was only the police who could do this?

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with an out of date ticket he should have told you it wasn't valid for travel and asked you to buy a ticket, if you refused then he could issue you with a ticket irregularity and ask for your name and address with id to prove it, if you have no id he can call the police, but only if you refused to pay. I suspect that the letter you're waiting on will ask for payment and a penalty fare/admin fee, probably the fare and an extra £10.

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how can a ticket inspector caution anyone, I thought it was only the police who could do this?

 

Hello there.

 

The forum experts will correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that a train company RPI is governed by the PACE rules and can caution someone.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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with an out of date ticket he should have told you it wasn't valid for travel and asked you to buy a ticket, if you refused then he could issue you with a ticket irregularity and ask for your name and address with id to prove it, if you have no id he can call the police, but only if you refused to pay. I suspect that the letter you're waiting on will ask for payment and a penalty fare/admin fee, probably the fare and an extra £10.

 

I am sorry to say that is completely wrong.

 

A railway revenue protection inspector is trained in the requirements of investigation and reporting of offences in accordance with the P.A.C.E (1984) codes of practice exactly the same as a Police officer.

 

RPIs have access to name & address checking facilities and do not need the assistance of Police Officers to report for prosecution. Police will normally only be called to deal with the traveller who either; a) is threatening or abusive, b) fails to give a correct name and address or c) when any other serious allegation is evident

 

In certain circumstances there is a power of arrest specifically retained for 'any officer of the railway' empowered under Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889), but this is very rarely needed, or desireable and where an arrest is essential, Police will be summoned to deal with the matter.

 

A Penalty Fare Notice can only be issued on those services and routes where authorised, but is not appropriate in cases of attempted fare evasion or other breaches of law. Where appropriate the minimum penalty fare is £20 or twice the single fare, whichever is the greater. A penalty fare notice will NOT be sent through the post.

Edited by Old-CodJA

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we'll see what the op says happens. Maybe a confusion between revenue protection and ticket examiners. Ticket examiners and conductors cannot caution anyone, they'll ask for payment and if refused will issue a ticket irregularity and ask for name, adress and id, if non then they can call police. Revenue protection afaik do the same. I stand by what I posted.

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we'll see what the op says happens. Maybe a confusion between revenue protection and ticket examiners. Ticket examiners and conductors cannot caution anyone, they'll ask for payment and if refused will issue a ticket irregularity and ask for name, adress and id, if non then they can call police. Revenue protection afaik do the same. I stand by what I posted.

 

Hello again. Do you mean that RPIs also cannot caution anyone? I found this on the TfL website, I assume it's similar for other TOCs.

 

11. Investigations

 

11.1TfL Revenue Inspectors will “caution” any suspect in accordance with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE), where questions put to the suspect are likely to result in admissions or confessions prejudicial to the suspect’s case.

 

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/tfl-revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

I hope it helps.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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we'll see what the op says happens. Maybe a confusion between revenue protection and ticket examiners. Ticket examiners and conductors cannot caution anyone, they'll ask for payment and if refused will issue a ticket irregularity and ask for name, adress and id, if non then they can call police. Revenue protection afaik do the same. I stand by what I posted.

I'm afraid you're wrong and Old Codja is quite right. Train Guards are slightly different in that their priority is the safe operation of the train doors and other operational stuff, and ticket issues are a sideline of sorts. RPIs however are solely present to protect the revenue of the company, and do so in the form of Penalty Fares, Unpaid Fare Notices, ticket sales and gthe reporting of offences under Railway Byelaws and the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

 

It's not an offence to not be able to provide ID, so why failing to produce any would result in the Police being called is anyone's guess. The OP didn't have a valid ticket, therefore the RPI was quiote within his rights to act as he did, and there's no requirement to excess a ticket, sell a new one or call the Police. RPIs can caution and question, as can many other non-police persons such as VOSA, TV Licencing and Trading Standards.

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we'll see what the op says happens. Maybe a confusion between revenue protection and ticket examiners. Ticket examiners and conductors cannot caution anyone, they'll ask for payment and if refused will issue a ticket irregularity and ask for name, adress and id, if non then they can call police. Revenue protection afaik do the same. I stand by what I posted.

 

I'm sorry to say that you are wrong about RPIs Andy. (If it helps, one of my roles for many years now has been in P.A.C.E training them.)

 

You are right in some part about ticket examiners, conductor guards, train managers etc. because they are not normally trained in the requirements of the Police & Criminal Evidence Act (1984) and the relevant codes of practice and therefore cannot 'caution' a suspect, but this does not prevent a person reported by them from being prosecuted if there is sufficient evidence to do so. Legislation dating back to the latter part of the 19th century (and still active on the statute book) gives 'any officer of the railway company' (that is any employee) in the exercise of his/her duties, the authority to report anyone who s/he reasonably suspects to be guilty of an offence.

 

The person suspected of that offence does not have to be cautioned in order to be prosecuted. There are many ways to ascertain correct ID without having to resort to calling Police and well-trained on-train staff are frequently very competent in this skill. It is only if the traveller fails or refuses to give their correct details that non-PACE trained staff will normally resort to calling Police. Many thousands of offenders reported by non-PACE trained ticket examiners, train managers, guards & conductors etc. (without Police assistance) have been successfully prosecuted and this practice continues daily.

 

The member of staff witnessing the allegation may make a written report (TIR) and a statement may be given (if competent and confident) or may be taken from the witness by a Police Officer, or PACE trained member of staff (RPI) in order to provide an evidential link and will be submitted to the company prosecutor for assessment.

 

There is no obligation on any member of rail staff, who reasonably suspects that an offence is evident, to accept any fare (or penalty fare in areas where PFs are authorised).

Edited by Old-CodJA
  • Haha 1

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