PayDay loan hole

[Derfell]

Hi, just have a quick question.

 

I stupidly got myself into a mess with 6 PayDay loan companies. The amounts borrowed were £1,500 back in November and there is no way I can pay them back. I'm currently a student who is unemployed with absolutely no source of income. My only resort was to approach my parents but they have since refused to help.

 

I'm currently 1-2 months over-due on all the accounts and the current amount owed is around £4,400. Two of them have informed me that fees for solicitors have been added and I'm waiting for a letter or some sort of contact for CCJ. Is there anything I can do at all? I have absolutely no money whatsoever, I have already sold off all my valuables and am left with an old nokia phone as my only form of contact.

 

The companies are Wonga, PayDayUK, PayDayExpress, Minicredit, ToothFairyFinance and WageDayAdvance

[renegadeimp]

Ok. lets go through this and try to help you as best we can.

 

Can you post up as much info as you can for each debt? Things like loan amount, original loan interest, any fee's they have added on, basically a full breakdown of each debt.

 

Whats curious is why TFF are still issuing loans when they are meant to be closed down by the OFT.

 

 

Anyway, there are a few lenders you listed which will frustrate you to no end. The others are fairly relaxed and can be dealt with.

[Derfell]

Ok. lets go through this and try to help you as best we can.

 

Can you post up as much info as you can for each debt? Things like loan amount, original loan interest, any fee's they have added on, basically a full breakdown of each debt.

 

Whats curious is why TFF are still issuing loans when they are meant to be closed down by the OFT.

 

 

Anyway, there are a few lenders you listed which will frustrate you to no end. The others are fairly relaxed and can be dealt with.

 

Hi thanks for your reply, the break-down are as follows.

 

Wonga: Original = £601 Interest & Fees = £590 Total = £1190

TFF: Original = £400 Interest & Fees = £731 Total = £1131

WDA: Original = £300 Interest & Fees = £300 Total = £600

PDE: Original = £300 Interest & Fees = £213 Total = £513

MC: Original = £100 Interest & Fees = £282 Total = £382

PDK: Original = £200 Interest & Fees = £250 Total = £450

 

Total = £4266

 

They're all between one to two months over-due now. Both Wonga and TFF have been sent to solicitors/debt collection agencies and TFF will be going to CCJ by the end of this week.

[renegadeimp]

Thanks for that derfell. That gives us something to go on.

 

Can you post a breakdown of these "fee's" as the lender states them, and also dates taken out, original loan term, and default date? Reason i ask is just from a quick glace at your numbers, there does seem to be quite a few unlawful charges hidden away with a couple of those accounts.

 

And you say TFF is getting a CCJ? Did you have any court papers through the post, or are they simply threatening it in a letter to you? TFF will NEVER take anyone to court for a CCJ unless they are convinced they will get a judgement by default.

[Derfell]

I haven't had anything in writing from any of them even though I've asked for it, those numbers are merely the ones that were given to me over the phone.

 

TFF sent me an e-mail today from NDR (Northern Debt Recovery) in which they stated that if I don't pay within 5 days, I'll be visited by one of their agents and my file sent to a solicitor for a CCJ.

 

Loan and Interest £831

Legal Fees £150

Recovery Fees £200

Repayments to date £0

 

I can't find the exact dates at the moment, but they were all taken out sometime in October/Novemember to be paid back by 28th November. I get daily calls and texts from all of them which I'm not answering anymore as I was told to ask them to communicate by writing only.

[renegadeimp]

Gotcha on the CCJ part. It's just TFF/NDR threatening things they will never follow through on unless they are guaranteed a default judgement.

 

What you need to do now is one of these. Completely your choice:

1. You admit to all of these loans, complete with unlawful fee's. You work out a I&E and a budget summary, then negotiate with your creditors to pay off each loan as they state it.
    
   
2. You write by email, or recorded delivery royal mail, and DEMAND a full and complete breakdown of each and every debt. You then post up the details in this thread, but delete any personal info such as reference numbers etc.
    
   
3. You can throw all accounts into serious dispute as you do not admit liability to the stated amounts owed, until such a time that the lenders can justify their numbers themselves.
   

 

Personally i would recommend option 2, as a lot of people here have a very good knowledge of lawful and unlawful fee's relating to PDL's, and can help you strip the debts down to their basics. Once all thats done, you can then sort out repayment plans, and form Formal Complaint letters to each lender and the OFT.

 

Also understand that once the formal complaint letters have been recieved by the lenders, they then have a maximum of 8 weeks to issue you with a final response, upon which you can then involved the FOS and perhaps trading standards.

[Derfell]

Thanks, is there a template I should use for the e-mail or would this be fine?

 

Dears Sirs,

 

I would like to request a full and update to date break-down of mine debt including all fees and interest payments. I would like to request this via e-mail to this e-mail (insert e-mail) or to my current address (insert address)

 

Regards

[renegadeimp]

I wouldn't really recommend templates, as a lot of DCA's are well known to CAG and vice versa. Therefore they tend to ignore templates, unless they give a legal instruction.

 

Your letter sounds ok. Change it to this though:

 

 

Reference number: xxxxxxx

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I do not acknowledge the amount you claim i owe to your company.

 

As such, i now require you to supply me with a FULL and COMPLETE breakdown of the aforementioned debt you claim is owed to you. This breakdown must contain all fee's and charges and how they were allocated. This breakdown must be supplied by you, by way of email to : (insert email) or in written format to the address you have on file.

 

I require this information from you within 7 days.

 

Failure to supply this information will leave me with no alternative but to put the entire account into formal dispute. As you should be aware, under OFT guidance, you will not continue collection activities on the account, until the dispute has been resolved. A formal complaint will them be made with the OFT.

 

I look forward to receiving the information requested.

 

Regards.

 

 

Send something along those lines, but put it into your own words, as we know these lenders read this site. I have used that template to help other people as well, and it does work, although a few lenders then try to call your bluff with it.

 

One thing to note and it is important, is if you send these letters via Royal Mail, you MUST send by recorded delivery and ensure you track them so you can make sure that they have been received by the lender. A lot of lenders will say they never received letters from you.

[renegadeimp]

I just saw this from you:

 

I can't find the exact dates at the moment, but they were all taken out sometime in October/November to be paid back by 28th November. I get daily calls and texts from all of them which I'm not answering any more as I was told to ask them to communicate by writing only.

 

WHat you must do now is send the following letter. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

 

Give them a couple of days to receive it and get it on their systems. If they still contact you as they have been doing, dont remind them, make sure you issue formal complaints with the authorities you stated in that letter.

 

That letter must be sent by recorded delivery, and you must track it to its destination to ensure they recieve it.

[Derfell]

Thanks, I've done all that you've said so far. I've dropped each one an e-mail and saved the automated responses as well as the e-mail I've sent.

 

I'l update as soon as I get a reply, thanks again.

[fletch70]

Couldn't agree more with what renegadeimp says. Of course in my experience they will not bother to reply, well some may but not all. If they do not reply they will try writing to you again. Try not to get into email ping pong.

Each of these companies will have different complaints procedures and prior to it going to the fos i think you need to follow them. For example WDA you need to go to the BCCA. I have a couple of names of the "managers" if you want.

[renegadeimp]

888888888888888The good thing is, it doesnt matter if they dont reply. Theyre digging a big hole for themselves if they dont, and an even bigger one if they still add on unlawful charges for failure to contact them. Thats why i advise people keep their calm, and follow regulation etc. Keep everything in writing, so you have full proof and a nice big paper trail should you or them take it further

 

As for managers, theres no need to contact them just yet. Lets see what comes back from the breakdown letters. If they are adamant that the amounts are correct ( hint: they're not. I can tell just from a glance), then you can escalate it into a formal complaint to senior management

[newey1791]

Hi this information is very useful for the problem Im having, Iv'e filled in a form with the FSo as MH have not responded to my letter of complaint and generally just carry on threatening me, the thing what is bothering me with in particular is the below if you can shed any light

 

1 Can they continue to charge me interest on my payday loan, surely if there claiming I defaulted with speed credit and they are collecting it on there behalf why are they continuing to add interest ie Im allegedly to pay £96 every 14 days still.

2. Bailiffs? are they bailiffs if there not surely this isn't right?

[fletch70]

MH. are not bailiff and no one can enter your home without a court order. As for applying interest,well yes they can but how they will expect to collect it is anyone's guess. I doubt any judge would give a ccj for that interest so long as you defend it. If MH do not respond within 8 weeks you then go to the FOS

[renegadeimp]

If they do not own the debt, they cant charge interest.

[newey1791]

This is what I don't understand, they say they have engaged them to collect it, surely there not collecting the outstanding amount but merely continuing to charge interest, I mean if the interest was to continue what figure are they going to take me to court for its going up each week why havent they said Ive defaulted add on a few charges and peruse it like that? I was concerned by the FOS service as they said MH don't really exist I should complain against the original lender, but then I dont have a valid complaint against the original lender I didn't pay it all they did is pass it onto MH ( I say all this of course knowing full well they are all connected) its so frustrating

[renegadeimp]

If they are only acting on behalf of a creditor, then they have no legal rights whatsoever towards the debt apart from asking you to pay. All their threats are baseless and empty because under law, they cant do anything.

 

You are dealing with the worst PDL outfit out there right now. Toothfairy/SPeedcredit/NDR and MHB are all ran by the same people. The first two companies being shut down last year by the regulators.

[newey1791]

Yes certainly feels that way they just make no sense and seem hell bent on causing misery when if they were reasonable you would pay them I mean thats my whole problem I've never refused to pay them their installments I did each month then bang from nowhere with no explanation they doubled it and have ignored everything I've asked them every since only to tell me I owe more, obviously I will await the FOS response and maybe I'm jumping the gun here but is there anyway I can bring this to a close and get this to stop? Ideally I wish they would take me to court so I can draw close on it, really is a nightmare very greatfull for your response have felt like I'm going insane over the last few months

[renegadeimp]

Fos will not comment on extra charges unfortunatley. But they can deal with any other complaint. The thing to remember is they will never take you to court unless they think they can get an easy default judgement. The best way to deal with things is to pay the original loan, plus original interest and a default fee. Deduct anything you have already paid, and once you have paid that sum, tell them to go and whistle. If they did take you to court, they would look very VERY stupid.

[newey1791]

Thats great thank you so much I will email/write offering just that and make payment.

[fletch70]

Sorry when you said MH i thought you were referring to another outfit. However as its MHB they are part of the same group so TFF will just keep adding on interest and pass the new balance across the desk. Renegadeimp says pay them only loan one months interest and a default fee. Personally i think that is generous but i do see the logic behind it. They will not go to court if they think there is a chance you will defend. Make sure you keep a paper trail

[renegadeimp]

It's not really being generous, when it comes down to technicalities, thats what the law would say to pay unless otherwise ordered by a judge. The extra charges are fully contestable, as they are clearly being added despite frequent attempts by the debtor to contact the creditor. The creditor choosing to completely ignore all communication and adding on said charges to unjustly enrich themselves.

[fletch70]

As i say i understand the logic and it is the best option if you can. I am just stubborn and feel that when you make all the effort to communicate with them and you are abused and lied to,then they should suffer as well. Of course it's much easier to say sod you when you have nothing to lose.

[renegadeimp]

I agree with you there fletch. But if you want to get one over on these companies, you have to play by the rules and let THEM make the mistakes.

[Derfell]

Had an update on the amounts.

 

Toothfairyfinance have sent it to NDR who have been calling/e-maillnig every day telling me if I don't pay in 3 days time they'l lsend it to court.

 

You currently owe:

Loan and Interest GBP 688

Cash Transmission Fee GBP 5

Missed Payment Fee 1 (day 29) GBP 10

NDR Accept Case File GBP 200

Missed Payment Fee 2 (day 43) GBP 10

Solicitors - Case Preparation GBP 150

 

Repayments todate GBP 0

Total GBP 1063

 

 

 

Minicredit sent

 

The total outstanding balance GBP395.20 from the date of issuing (30th of November 2012) until today the 15th of January 2013 consists of the following:

 

1. Loan principal GBP120.00

2. Interest in total GBP55.20 (1% of the Principal per day)

3. Overdue penalty GBP25.00 (was added on the 1st day overdue)

4. Overdue penalty GBP55.00 (was added on the 3rd day overdue)

5. Debit Attempt fees in total GBP140.00 (every unsuccessful attempt to receive the repayment costs up to GBP5.00)

 

 

WageDay Advance merely sent

 

£470.02

Default Date: 28/11/2012

*Daily Interest applied £3.16*

 

The other three have still yet to send anything but threats of debt collectors at my door and CCJs