My car damaged in car park, how far back can I request to see CCTV footage ?

[Demonted]

I live in Housing Association property (England, UK) which is covered by 16 CCTV cameras, 4 cameras cover the residents car park.

 

Just before Christmas, I parked my car in car park and whilst away during the Christmas/New Year holidays my car has been damaged, looks as if another vehicle has caused the damage.

 

How far back can I request a copy of the CCTV footage so I can it view myself?

[crem]

Best to ask the housing association how long they keep tapes. But I would think they'd want you to be a bit more specific on timeframe too. 4 cameras, 24hours a day, over the christmas period,,,, that'll take a lot of viewing!!

[Demonted]

I know, that's why I asked on this forum in the hope that someone who understands the law in regard to data protection, rules in regard to CCTV footage and how far back can I request a copy of the CCTV footage, rather than a reply based on personal opinion and no knowledge of such legislation and rules.

 

Also, how can I be more specific, car had no damaged when parked just before Christmas and on my return a few days ago, I notice the damage.

[Demonted]

Also, most, if not all CCTV systems are digital and no longer use tapes.

 

Based on my own experience of using such a CCTV system, its possible to program the cameras to only record when movement detected and to remain recording for a few minutes afterwards.

 

And such a feature drastically reduces the amount of footage actually recorded.

[crem]

I know, that's why I asked on this forum in the hope that someone who understands the law in regard to data protection,

what's the law on data protection got to do with it? you're questing video of a public access area, not a view straight into your neighbour's bedroom!! Data protection laws apply to personal data, a video of a couple of cars in a car park doesn't qualify as "personal data"

 

rules in regard to CCTV footage and how far back can I request a copy of the CCTV footage,

the housing association can run CCTV or not run it as they see fit, again there would be no "rules" governing how or how long they keep it for. You can ask for any date you think is relevant, whether they have it or not and whether they are willing to show you it, only they could answer that

 

rather than a reply based on personal opinion and no knowledge of such legislation and rules.

thanks for your lack of gratitude on constructive advise. I'll not be wasting my time on this thread after this

 

Also, how can I be more specific, car had no damaged when parked just before Christmas and on my return a few days ago, I notice the damage.

well that's your main problem isn't it. Even if they keep CCTV for a month. You say they have 16 cams(4 on the car park) presumably running 24 hours a day. How much effort do you think they will be prepared to put into locating that much data for you when they have no legal obligation to do so?

 

No need to answer that last question of course, just use it as food for thought as I will be leaving thread now

[Demonted]

[/b]

 

No need to answer that last question of course, just use it as food for thought as I will be leaving thread now

 

 

More personal opinion I see.

 

Forgive me for not reading your entire reply Crem, but the moment I read "What's data protection got to do with it? "

I knew it wasn't worth reading anymore, as it appears to be based on personal opinion rather than fact or any actual experience.

 

I need advice from forum members that understand legislation, not their own personal opinion.

 

Crem there is no point replying if you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Apparently, Data Protection has a lot do do with it.

 

 

Crem, thank you for leaving this thread, much appreciated.

[Demonted]

If anyone can point forum member Old Snowy towards my thread, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Old Snowy has experience and an understanding of what I refer to.

 

I'm unable to message forum members directly as I've only just joined the forum, otherwise I would send a PM to Old Snowy.

[green_and_mean]

Report it to the Police and you insurance company and let them deal with it, you cannot just ask to see the tape as it is covered under data protection.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Also just to clarify about CCTV:

 

* Yes CCTV does come under the Data Protection Act.

* The Housing Association would also have to be Registered as a Data Controller for that CCTV and its Equipment.

* You would need to find out if its the Housing association staff are operating the CCTV or whether the operating and monitoring of the CCTV has been outsourced to an external company.

* Do you know if you as a tenant are paying a 'Service Charge' for the CCTV? (I bet you are and probably dont know it)

 

I do have to agree with green_and_mean that your best option is to report this to the Police as if required they can request to look at the CCTV Footage from the Housing Association and its a lot quicker than you trying to request this.

 

These PDFs on CCTV may be of help:

Edited January 11, 2013 by stu007

[Demonted]

Thanks Stu007,

 

I do pay for CCTV in the service charge, so it is included in the rent.

 

CCTV, although install was outsourced, its operation is by Housing Association staff, not watched live, only recorded.

 

I reported damage to Police as soon as I discovered it, explained when I believed it occurred and that it would have been caught by CCTV camera. Police advised that I must request copy of CCTV footage or view it myself.

 

This is why I need to know what I am actually entitled to request and how far back I can request to see such footage.

 

Once I requested to see CCTV footage, Housing Association quoted legislation and Data Protection Act.

 

Many years ago, when I used a CCTV camera system during my employment, under whatever legislation, I seem to remember that recorded CCTV footage had to be retained for at least 3 months, maybe 6 and that was when it was recorded onto video tape.

[Demonted]

Green_and_mean, thank you for your input.

 

However, It is possible to request CCTV footage, either Under the Data Protection Act or the Freedom of Information Act, maybe both.

 

I made a request to the Housing Association for a copy of the CCTV footage, in writting, via email on the day I discovered the damage to my car and after I had spoken to the Police.

[ericsbrother]

Subject accessrequest under the DPA. Give them as much informarion as you can so they can identify what to look for. So, make, model and colour of your car, where it is parked. You should ask them if they require a fee (max £10) for copies of what they have and specify the format you would like it in if given a choice (has to be legible and easily understood so should be a common format). Chances are they wont charge you as you pay a service charge and are their tenants, most councils and HA dont when it directly involves them in this way.

You should point out that this is a SAR under the DPA so they know. They have a limited time to answer and if they dont have the material they are supposed to tell you whay they havent got copies-ie no storage, video only kept for a certain time etc. They cant say that you are not entitled to see it or it is too expensive to sort out.

[Demonted]

Thanks for the link.

 

I've already made a request for the CCTV footage, not quite word for word as the linked letter template but close enough.

 

I've stated the periods I require the footage to run from and upon till the time I discovered the damage, I've also explained as to why I require the footage and as to what must be visible in the footage.

 

The HA quoted various legislation, being DPA and refused.

 

I'm aware the HA are legally oblige to respond within 40 days of my request and provide the footage I've requested, however, the HA Manager, as per usual, although quoting DPA, their responsibilities and legislation, doesnt seem to be aware of my rights,

 

Ideally, what I need to know, is how far back can I request the footage to run from ?

 

Also, as I've reported the damage to the Police, should they be pursuing this and requesting the CCTV footage ?

[ericsbrother]

you can request anything that is HELD. If they have it they are obliged to provide it. get in touch with your ward councillor and tell them that your HA is being obstructive. The relationship between the council and the HA will be very close so if your councillor does their job you will soon get the required response. Also contact the Information Commissioner's Office and tell them what response you get from your SAR if it is not satisfactory. The wording of your letter must make it clear that it is a subject access request under the DPA otherwise they can ignore it. Sometimes organisations claim they cant show you whose car it was that bashed yours because that breaches their privacy. If they try that then name them on your insurance claim as the joint guilty party with others unknown to you.

The police can pursue this if they feel like it but as it is on private property they may decide not to. They would have to be convinced that it was criminal damage, ie deliberate to make them stir.

[Demonted]

Thanks for such a consice reply.

My email to HA includes every detail, time period, why and what etc, however, I failed to use the term "Subject Access Request."

I will make my request again, but this time use the heading "Subject Access Request " and use such a term through out my email to ensure my request is clear.

 

I don't wish to claim on my insurance due to the £500 excess and it will also be recorded as a Non Fault claim being held on file, possibly affecting future premiums.

 

The damaged caused would cost in the region of £250-300 and that's using a second hand bumper.

 

Should the HA refuse to reveal the Registration Number of the vehicle which caused the damage, can I inform the my Insurance just to retrieve the vehicle details without actually making a claim ?

[ericsbrother]

They cant NOT show you the footage and if the reg no is clear then pass the information on to your insurers who will use their database to find out who the registered keeper is. You may very well recognise the vehicle without the reg anyway so you can then report the owner for failing to stop and report an accident. A car park, for some purposes, counts as a public place (not highway) and this is one of them.

[green_and_mean]

You cannot use an SAR to view footage you are not in! SAR only covers personal information held about you, you cannot just go around asking to view personal information about other people. How does the HA even know there was an accident, you could be wanting the footage to catch your wife having an affair or any other dubious reason.

[Demonted]

Apparently you can request footage in connection to investigate a crime.

However, although the footage I require is of a car park and private property, the car park is also the public access to and from a housing Estate, so rules are slightly different in regards to other members of the public and residents being identified; but it's how each organisation/dept interprets the rules, all very complicated.

I only requested the CCTV footage as it was the natural thing to do in such circumstance, I was also advised to do

so by the Police.

[ericsbrother]

You cannot use an SAR to view footage you are not in! SAR only covers personal information held about you, you cannot just go around asking to view personal information about other people. How does the HA even know there was an accident, you could be wanting the footage to catch your wife having an affair or any other dubious reason.

That is why I raised the point about the HA possibly claiming that the offending vehicle was covered by privacy and hence needing the perpetrator's permission to show it. As for how does the HA know there was a collision? Well, they have to look at the footage to see which bit is of the OP's car etc. He hasnt asked for every second of recording since the year dot, merely that which is relevant to his request (which he doesnt have to limit). I also think you will find that if they have footage of his vehicle, whether he is in the shots or not, that is personal information if it is identifiably HIS. Bit like councils have to hand over all data on your address if you are the sole occupier. Not for them to say that they think you dont warrant the info because one of the reasons for the DPA is to ensure that bodies do not hold information that is incorrect or out of date and those that think they know what is good for us often hold incorrect data.