The Sheriffs Office - what can they do ?

[Itsmeisntit]

HI,

 

quick bit of history - debt of £1300 with a CCJ attached to it.

Agreement made 6 months ago to pay it off at £100 a month

the £100 has been paid each month without fail.

 

 

Earlier on today i had a visit from to High Court Enforcement Officers from The Sheriffs Office in relation the above debt.

I explained the debt was being paid monthly and had not heard anything about the solicitors sending bailiffs etc.

They told me that a high court writ had been taken out and that they could not leave without either full payment + over the same again in costs or without taking goods and it was not up to them to find out if i was paying they were just here to get what they came for.

 

To cut a long story short they said they were going to arrange to have my car towed away and that a tow truck would be with them in half an hour - i had already explained at this point that the car was for business use (taxi) but they said it didn't matter as they were high court enforcement NOT bailiffs and they could not make an agreement, leave a walking possession order or give me any grace - it was payment of over £2900 immediately or i lose the car. They parked on my drive so i couldn't move my car and they said they could force entry to the house or drag the car off the drive and they would call the police if put anything in the way of the car (such as myself lol).

 

Anyway - they eventually left without the car or payment after i phoned the solicitor who dealt with the initial payment plan and he spoke to them and called them off.

 

What i would like to know is how legal were there demands ?

 

Could they take the car as it was a taxi for business use ?

can they demand the money or goods instantly with no walking possession order etc ?

Do they have rights above a bailiff ? His exact words were " We have more legal right to be on or in your property than you do"

 

and ill finish with, despite the above they were civil and seemed nice enough chaps - I'm just not quite sure how truthful they were with taking the car, no possession order etc

 

Im seriously considering putting in a complaint so want to know what s what law wise thanks

 

D

[i hate bailiffs]

if it was set up with the court to pay they should not be visiting you

 

with a CCJ there is NOT right of forced entry to a residential address

 

They have no more rights than a bailiff

Bailiffs lie we will call the police is the usual BS they come out with

 

i would say the car /taxi is income so they should not be able to take it many bailiffs don't act lawfully

 

There was a order in place with the court so they should not be visiting

[citizenB]

Perhaps your Solicitor could lodge a complaint.

 

This does sound very wrong indeed.

 

Judgments can only be interefered with by the court and they dont normally do that from your perspective because you have maintained payments.

[wonkeydonkey]

If you had agreement to pay the ccj in installments and have not defaulted on that, then the ccj stays with the County Court...the claimant would need to apply back to the Court to vary the agreed payment or make an application for enforcement. I very strongly suggest you make an application to set aside the writ or stay execution of the writ due to the grounds on which it was obtained. That is done on Form N244 and can be downloaded from HMCT website. If you need help filling that in just come back here.

 

Your taxi is a tool of the trade and exempt from seizure if it is used solely for that purpose ie: it is not used for family outings shopping etc. etc.A stay of execution to the writ will send them home with their tails between legs, if you also decide to set aside the writ and it is successful all their fees( the're figures that look like telephone numbers) disappear as well.

 

They are allowed to force entry to a building detached from your dwelling eg. garage. shed etc. but they have no right of entry to your home, quite simply deny them 'peaceful entry' and there is naff all they can do about it....except threaten to take the car.

 

WD

Edited January 10, 2013 by wonkeydonkey

[ploddertom]

Is it obvious the vehicle was a taxi?

[scotgal68]

When the sheriff officers are enforcing a court order for a debt you can still contact the person or company you owe the money to by telephone to make a payment towards your debt. You may be able to prevent any further action by negotiating with your creditor or their agent to make payment to the sheriff officers.

They can only act on an existing court order. They were chancing their arms

You should complain

Society of Messengers-at-Arms and Sheriff Officers

 

11 Alva Street

Edinburgh

EH2 4PH

Tel: 0131 225 9110

Fax: 0131 220 3468

E-mail: [email protected]

Website: http://www.smaso.org

[seanamarts]

If it looks like a bailiff, talks like a bailiff then it is a bailiff. They like to think they are better than a bailiff but in hindsight they are just the same.

 

I would suggest you follow Wonky's advise, post #4

[scotgal68]

sheriff officers and bailiffs aren't the same. Scots law is different, they can enter your home if they have the correct documentation, they can force their way in and if you obstruct them you can be arrested for breach of the peace. Unlike bailiffs, sherriif officers and messengers-at-arms are appointed by the court or act as reps for others appointed by the court

[ploddertom]

When the sheriff officers are enforcing a court order for a debt you can still contact the person or company you owe the money to by telephone to make a payment towards your debt. You may be able to prevent any further action by negotiating with your creditor or their agent to make payment to the sheriff officers.

They can only act on an existing court order. They were chancing their arms

You should complain

Society of Messengers-at-Arms and Sheriff Officers

 

11 Alva Street

Edinburgh

EH2 4PH

Tel: 0131 225 9110

Fax: 0131 220 3468

E-mail: [email protected]

Website: http://www.smaso.org

 

sheriff officers and bailiffs aren't the same. Scots law is different, they can enter your home if they have the correct documentation, they can force their way in and if you obstruct them you can be arrested for breach of the peace. Unlike bailiffs, sherriif officers and messengers-at-arms are appointed by the court or act as reps for others appointed by the court

 

In this instance the Sheriffs Office are High Court Enforcement company based near Crawley in Sussex, nothing to do with Scots Law at all.

[scotgal68]

Sorry, my mistake, I thought you were referring to the Scottish Sherrifs officers

[seanamarts]

sheriff officers and bailiffs aren't the same. Scots law is different, they can enter your home if they have the correct documentation, they can force their way in and if you obstruct them you can be arrested for breach of the peace. Unlike bailiffs, sherriif officers and messengers-at-arms are appointed by the court or act as reps for others appointed by the court

 

I was not refering to a Sheriffs officer.

 

I was refering to 'The sheriffs Office' which is not situated in Scotland. They are HCEO's situated south of the boarder.

 

http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/hceo_rights_of_entry

[ploddertom]

Sorry, my mistake, I thought you were referring to the Scottish Sherrifs officers

 

Perfectly understandable given the name of the company. You can see more of them on BBC1 starting next Monday morning at 11am http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01q0jrc

[scotgal68]

At last when I actually knew something about something - it was bloody useless lol

[ploddertom]

At last when I actually knew something about something - it was bloody useless lol

 

But did you get the T-shirt? That aside we all have to learn somewhere & somehow and like everything CAG is a steep learning curve in different situations - not helped by what people or companies call themselves, don't despair stick at it.

[wonkeydonkey]

Hey don't knock yourself ...we often get people asking for advice on scottish law and we are a bit weak on input to help them ...so you will be a great help at some point.

 

WD

[brassnecked]

"Sorry, my mistake, I thought you were referring to the Scottish Sherrifs officers"

 

 

When a company name bears a resemblance to an official title, it is best to be safe and ask the question, to make sure of the facts. I think they should change their name as they could get into some trouble with it hopefully in the near future

[Itsmeisntit]

Thank you VERY much for your posts everybody, sorry for the late reply

 

It would appear i was correct in my thinking so i'm quite happy about that, I shall be writing letters of complaints

 

To clarify a few points

 

The car is Solely a Private Hire Taxi and it has a Council Plate in the rear window so they could see what it was and they were told what it was - they just chose to ignore it and tell me as they were high court enforcement officers and NOT bailiffs they could take the vehicle even if it was for business and they could force entry to the house (this is when they quoted the "we have more legal right to be here than you" lol)

 

I shall go and look into getting the stay of execution and shall start to put together a letter of complaint now

 

So, THANKS

D

[ploddertom]

Have they given you a Notice of Seizure for the car?

[Itsmeisntit]

NO , Nothing - no paperwork given or offered at the time at all

[seanamarts]

did you read this link

http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/hceo_rights_of_entry

[Itsmeisntit]

I have had a good read of the Standard for Enforcement officers here:: ww.justice.gov.uk/downloads/courts/bailiffs-enforcement-officers/national-standards-enforcement-agents.pdf

and read the blurb here also : ww.hceoa.org.uk/faq/have-you-been-visited-by-a-high-court-enforcement-officer.html

 

and what i cannot seem to find an answer for is the following questions (can we assume for the purpose of the questions that the car on my drive is NOT a taxi)

 

Should they give me time to find the money pay - ie, should they do a walking possession order to give me 24 hours to find the money before they take away good - or is it really a case of pay NOW or we take goods NOW with a high court writ issued ?

 

When i stated to them clearly that the debt was being paid on a payment plan should THEY have phoned up to check this or are they allowed to ignore it and continue without investigation ?

 

What evidence should i of been given to prove who they were and what rights they had ? - They were wearing cards around their necks but at no point was i given or shown what i would deem to be identification. In terms of evidence to a writ being issued they would only show me a piece of paper/letter which to be honest i could of printed myself - i was not allowed to hold this letter and i was not given a copy of this letter - i was actually told that there was no requirement for me to have a copy.

[Itsmeisntit]

did you read this link

right of entry link]

 

 

Thanks for that

 

So essentially - if your front door is unlocked they can just walk straight in ?

 

what would be the consequence of a person standing at the front door with it open and stating "you are not coming in" - could the HCEO force his way past you before you had chance to close and lock the door ?

[caledfwlch]

Thanks for that

 

So essentially - if your front door is unlocked they can just walk straight in ?

 

what would be the consequence of a person standing at the front door with it open and stating "you are not coming in" - could the HCEO force his way past you before you had chance to close and lock the door ?

 

Some will try. It is unlawful Forced Entry, but proving it is impossible unless you have video footage of it happening. It is best not to put yourself in the position of trying to enter your property whilst a Bailiff is there. Keep eyes about if your arriving home.

 

The Door in the Foot tactic is also unlawful despite what Bailiffs claim as its classed as forced entry.

 

You are far better speaking through a letterbox or window, or leaving out the back and speaking to them outside with the house locked up tight. Don't be holding your keys in your hand either, Bailiffs have been known to make a grab for them.

 

If you can, with a phone or camcorder, film all dealings with the Bailiff anyway.

[ploddertom]

Bailiffs & HCEO's all have one thing in common - they must gain peaceful entry. If they cannot gain entry or otherwise levy on goods outside then they are powerless and can do nothing. Another little known fact is that they can only enter with permission & if asked to leave, before commencing listing goods, must do so otherwise they commit trespass and can actually be removed using appropriate force.

 

They may enter through a closed but unlocked door or an open window. They may also gain access to your property by scaling a wall, gate, fence or hedge providing they cause no damage. The HCEO may force entry to any detached building on your property - garage, outbuilding, greenhouse etc if he believes they contain goods that may satisfy the debt.

 

Following a valid levy of goods the HCEO may force entry on his return if he is excluded - he will need to be granted permission from the Claimant to do so, he does not need a separate Court Order. Very rarely would this happen if the occupier was absent. If the goods seized belong to a 3rd party then proof of ownership should be provided, goods can & will be removed immediately. If proof of 3rd party ownership cannot be provided at the time the owner has 5 days in which to provide the necessary proof & maybe subject to Interpleader action if there is doubt.

 

The situation is different for a commercial debt & premises.

[seanamarts]

and what i cannot seem to find an answer for is the following questions (can we assume for the purpose of the questions that the car on my drive is NOT a taxi)

 

You can send them proof that the car is a taxi. It is a tool of the trade so therefore cannot take it.

 

When i stated to them clearly that the debt was being paid on a payment plan should THEY have phoned up to check this or are they allowed to ignore it and continue without investigation ?

 

Yes they should of checked, I cannot understand why they came out in the first place if there was a payment plan in place. Unless it was taking too long to pay it off and they thought they would try and hurry it up, plus get extra costs on top.