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    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
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missy2006

ESA appeal and my Dr giving me Un/Fit Note

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Sorry if this has been answered but i cant find it. When they send me the news ive failed to get enough points which they will, the GL24 form i think its called. When i fill out this form where it says put any other things on a separate piece of paper do i have to write it out or can it be typed out and printed. My writing isnt the best and as i get more annoyed my writing gets more unreadable.

 

Thanks for any replies.

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missy2006:

 

 

Your choice, so long as it's signed.

 

It is a GL24 form and you can print one from the internet.

 

 

Make sure your name and National Insurance Number are on any extra sheets.

 

 

Margaret.

Edited by **Margaret**

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thank you very much Starryeyes52 for your reply. i will no doubt be asking my local CAB for help once i receive the letter but i wanted to know if i could print any correspondence rather than writing it all out.

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I think it's better printed, well in my case anyway! I think a lot faster than I write so my handwriting looks like a drunk spider dipped in ink has lurched across the page, in my case I sent printed copies as well as handwritten to avoid any mistakes.


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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HAHAHA that made me laugh. as you say its much quicker to type than to write.

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My writing isnt the best and as i get more annoyed my writing gets more unreadable.

 

Tell me about it, mine is the same. When I got my ESA50 I was so annoyed I filled it in the same day, by the time I had finished I was really angry and it was an absolute mess. I really went off on one filling every bit of blank space on the form with details of my ailments, even telling them i get upset filling out stupid forms, and angry when in pain. In the part for medication and what the side effects are i put "you already know what med's I am on, I've told you at every medical (was on IB from its inception), and you should know more than me about the side effects".

 

I was going to send it off straight away, but waited a few days, and then looked at it again. I decided to leave it as it was other than the bit about medication; where I just put copies of scrips in, and under side effects I put that i wasn't sure of all, but I did know they made me sweat and unable to operate machinery.

 

Only problem was I forgot to make a copy, but I did get a reasonable decision.

 

I think the DWP have people who can read illegible handwriting; after all they understand doctors' reports, and they read the DLA applications I did for my wife and myself (admittedly they weren't as bad as my ESA50).

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I think the DWP have people who can read illegible handwriting; after all they understand doctors' reports, and they read the DLA applications I did for my wife and myself (admittedly they weren't as bad as my ESA50).

 

To be honest, if the only thing wrong with a form or letter is that it's hard to read, I (when I was a processor) would count that as a good day at the office. Some of the letters I had to look at smelled like they'd been used to line the cat litter tray.

 

Seriously, though, typed is appreciated by the staff.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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One stupid question was can you set an alarm clock i just put on the form what kind of a stupid question is that id end up throwing the thing at the wall.Why don't they just give the real reason they want people off DLA and the like, they just want to save the extra money people get. there are no jobs for the fully fit never mind jobs for people who know they are not able to work be it them being disabled or suffer Mental Health Problems.

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Anyway, yes feel free to type away. And don't forget you don't need to enclose all your evidence with the GL24. Just fill out the basics and send it off asap to get the ball rolling. Your supporting evidence can be sent to the Tribunal Service up to one week before the Tribunal date. That gives you several months to sort it out. The important thing is to use the form to register the fact you want an appeal to Tribunal ...

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if it's easier, you can type a letter instead of the GL24. If you do that, you must make it clear that you're appealing and put your name, address and NINO on every sheet.

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Its just they normally say if you want to add anymore information use another sheet of paper so id sooner type it out rather than write it out.

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GL24 Download,Why have they made it 24 pages long,cost a fortune in printer Ink !

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_4017514

 

Didn't there use to be a shortened version to download ?

Edited by 45002

Just say No to 0870 and 0845 Numbers,Use

http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php

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Set the print option in Adobe acrobat to print just the last four pages as that's all you need.


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Sorry if this on the forum but i cant find it. I had my ATOS Medical on the 30th August 2012 and a month later i received the apparently normal response of you have failed the medical you only got 9 points. After a lot of hassle i received the letter with all the lies the so called medical expert said, as i had secretly recorded the medical so i knew exactly what i said to her.

 

Obviously i have Appealed that decision and have sent it into the relevant people and iam still awaiting their decision. Sorry for being long-winded but in September i had to get my Dr to sign me one of these new Un/Fit Note things which he did. All that he put on the note was Appealing, and the date. he didn't put anything regarding how long this note would last. all it had on was 13/52 whatever that means and this lasted until the 29th December 2012 as that was when i received another letter from the DWP stating i had to send another Un/Fit Note by a specific time.

 

I got another Un/Fit Note from my Dr again all he put was Appealing and another weird thing something like 26/52 where he should have put the time the Un/Fit Note lasted. I sent it to the DWP.Yesterday i received a letter from the DWP stating they have not received the Un/Fit Note. I have phoned them up this morning asking if they had received the note and they said they had but it has been Declined because my Dr hadn't put down what was wrong with me and they said i had to get back in touch with the Dr and say he had to put something else in other than just Appealing as that wasnt good enough.

I phoned my Dr who stated well people who are Appealing i just put Appealing in as that is what you are doing. He then told me to get back in touch with the DWP and tell them what he said and also to give them his number to phone. So again i phoned up the DWP stating what my Dr said and they said its not in our policy to phone people's Dr's up and told me to get back in touch with my Dr stating this which i did.

 

Ive just had him on the phone and he said i have been doing it this way for over a year but i said the DWP will not pay my money if you dont put something other than He is Appealing in his Un/Fit Note to which he wasnt going to change it as he said to me the ATOS people have stated your fit for work so i cant put the Depression/Anxiety/Suicidal Thoughts that i suffer from on the Un/Fit Note. I said i wont get paid if you don't which to be honest he couldn't give a crap by the sound of his voice. I said to him if iam fit for work why have you still got me on the 2nd highest dose that you can give a patient if you thought i was fit for work, to which he said its not for me to say your fit for work its the DWP. after a few minutes of me getting more annoyed and me moaning he said he's give me a new Un/Fit Note and put on a new Un/Fit Note that i was Appealing and he would put Depression on and i could only get it this coming Friday,as i was talking he slammed the phone down on me.

 

Sorry for this very long and boring post but i just wanted to vent my anger and i knew the people on here would put me right on things like, my Dr is correct or he is wrong in what he says regarding his filling in of any Un/Fit Note that he does.

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In the years I processed ESA I never once came across a med cert that read "Appealing". I don't know what rules GPs follow when issuing certs so I can't say he's "wrong" as such, but he's certainly behaving very strangely. Yes, the DWP has said it considers you fit for work on the basis of your ATOS assessment, but the whole point of the appeal is that you are arguing that they've made the wrong decision.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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I find it weird that he put down "appealing".

 

If you've been found fit for work, he can still write your medical conditions down.

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Thank you both for your replies its exactly what i thought. Thats what i said to him on the phone that iam Appealing the ATOS decision, so the problems i have still stand but all he had to say was the DWP have found you fit for woek so i cant put down the things you were down for in the first place. He insisted that is what he has done for people Appealing for over a year.Again he slammed the phone down on me which i found very unprofessional.

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Strange Doctor. I've failed ATOS and the Tribunal twice and am still on the ESA assessment rate. For over four years my GP has patiently written (un)fit notes every three months. She puts on what is wrong with me. Never 'appealing'. Even though I am. ;)

Odd date system as well, using the week numbers of the year. Is he, by any chance, quite elderly?

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No not really he id say was just in his fifties mid fifties.The last time i saw him i dont know how i didnt jump over the desk and throttle him as he was absolutely useless. He must be one of these Dr's that think once you have failed the ATOS medical he doesnt have to do anything else for you.

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Are there any other doctors at the surgery you could see?


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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13/52.......he has signed you off for 13 weeks...26/52 26 weeks sign off. My Gp is a young woman and she does everything date wise like that :)


Lillibelle

 

I only know what I know cos I know it,I only give advice,I'm not legally trained nor do I pretend to be.

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Yes but apparently they are all the same and as i don't like going out much it takes a lot for me to go to the doctors for anything. if iam really bad with the flu i don't bother going i just weather it out.

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Yes but apparently they are all the same and as i don't like going out much it takes a lot for me to go to the doctors for anything. if iam really bad with the flu i don't bother going i just weather it out.

 

Put in a complaint to the practice manager. Then follow the complaints process through to the PCT if necessary. Find some info on the number of decisions being overturned, and that GP's need to make their own decisions on whether someone is fit for work or not and write fit notes accordingly.


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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