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Rent arrears and burden of proof. Urgent, please help

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Hi Everyone,

 

I moved into my previous flat in May 2003 and I paid 4 weeks rent in advance and £500 deposit, both by cheque. The rent was increased once in 2012. I have never missed a payment during my tenancy there. I duly gave 4 weeks’ notice on 10/12/12 and moved out on 05/01/13. I didn’t pay any rent after giving the notice. Now the landlord is saying that their ledger is showing that I am in arrears and if I can’t prove otherwise I owe them 4 weeks rent.

I don’t have the old bank statements or the cheque book anymore nor do I have an account with that bank. Can anyone please advise me how best to deal with this?

 

Also throughout November/December due to a leak in the water pipe and boiler problem, for some time I had no hot water or running water at all and I had to go to a B n B and pay from my own pocket.

 

Thank you all.

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if it was only last month surely you can get the statements from your old bank? Im pretty sure you can get upto 6 or 7 years worth of statements. I could obviously be wrong though

 

sorry just re read your post is landlord suggesting you didnt pay the fist 4 weeks rent?

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You can still get copy statements from an account that is closed.

 

Is your deposit protected in one of the Deposit Protection Schemes?


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Hi messycess,

 

Thank you for your reply. I have statements from 09/12/05 up to December last year. He is just saying that their ledger is showing I am in arrears. I've asked him to send a copy of the full ledger. As I mentioned before I never missed a payment since the start of the tenancy and it was paid by standing order. When I signed for the rent increase he never gave me details of the deposit scheme.

 

Regards

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You can still get copy statements from an account that is closed.

 

Is your deposit protected in one of the Deposit Protection Schemes?

 

Hi LaughingGirl,

 

Thanks for your reply. The deposit isn't protected. When the tenancy started in 2003 I don't think the deposit protection scheme existed.

 

Will I be able to get statements about 10 years back?

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Sorry, I should have asked when the tenancy started...deposit question irrelevant.

 

You should be able to get statements for at least 6 years, but I have known people get them from up to ten years ago, yes. You really need to find out when he's suggesting the payment was missed.


"Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me". Martin Niemöller

 

"A vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. A person ignorant of the possibility of failure can be a half-brick in the path of the bicycle of history". - Terry Pratchett

 

If I've been helpful, please click my star. :oops:

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But, if he had taken the deposit before the law came into force, did he still had to protect it?

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But, if he had taken the deposit before the law came into force, did he still had to protect it?

 

I'm afraid not.


"Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me". Martin Niemöller

 

"A vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. A person ignorant of the possibility of failure can be a half-brick in the path of the bicycle of history". - Terry Pratchett

 

If I've been helpful, please click my star. :oops:

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Hi

 

I would be asking landlord for a copy of your Tenancy Agreement if you dont have a copy to see if it mentions deposit amount paid.


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I'm afraid not.

 

That was my understanding too.

 

If the rent was increased last year and I signed that then did the deposit fall under the deposit protection scheme?

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Hi

 

I would be asking landlord for a copy of your Tenancy Agreement if you dont have a copy to see if it mentions deposit amount paid.

 

I have the copy of the agreement and it mentions £500 deposit and 4 weeks rent in advance to be paid.

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If rent increase was accepted by T or via s13 Notice and no new AST agreed after Apr 2007, then deposit protection is a non-starter.

You can request LL to provide rent account statement for last 6 years. The equiv statement costs from your bank is a matter between you & them.

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when you moved in.. did you pay 4 weeks in advance or 8 weeks??

 

If only 4 weeks then you should have paid when you gave notice and LL should then give you back the deposit.

 

Deposit should have been on the original AST do you still have it?

 

But my way of reading this is that you still owe 4 weeks rent for the last 4 weeks, and once paid LL will return deposit.


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when you moved in.. did you pay 4 weeks in advance or 8 weeks??

 

If only 4 weeks then you should have paid when you gave notice and LL should then give you back the deposit.

 

Deposit should have been on the original AST do you still have it?

 

But my way of reading this is that you still owe 4 weeks rent for the last 4 weeks, and once paid LL will return deposit.

 

Before I moved in I paid 4 weeks rent in advance and £500 deposit by two separate cheques. When I moved in I started paying from the 1st week.

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but did you pay the last four weeks rent? you said you paid no more after you gave notice or had you paid just before that?

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Does AST state rent is payable 4 weekly or per cal month?

Did you pay 4x wk rent?

The arrears would have accrued if you only paid 4 wks rent every cal month as there are 12 cal months per yr but 13x 4wk periods

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but did you pay the last four weeks rent? you said you paid no more after you gave notice or had you paid just before that?

 

No, I didn't

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then thats what they want, the last four weeks rent, as you pay in advance!

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OP states they paid 4 weeks in advance plus the deposit, and then paid weekly once they moved in from week 1 (post #14). Which, by my calculations, means the four weeks in advance was for the final four weeks which OP states they did not pay following giving notice. OP is therefore due their deposit back (which, irrespective of whether or not it was taken before the law changed in 2004, would have needed to be protected following the change in law in April 2012 by 5th May 2012 at the absolute latest).

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OP did not say he paid weekly, just that he paid from week 1!

deposits taken before April 2007 and there is no new contract then it does not need to be protected; pre AST. as M51 pointed out.

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" ..(which, irrespective of whether or not it was taken before the law changed in 2004, would have needed to be protected following the change in law in April 2012 by 5th May 2012 at the absolute latest)."

 

I have yet to hear of case law precedent that the Localism Act applies to existing ASTs dated before April 2007 (the date Deposit Protection in an Approved Scheme came into force.)

 

OP has yet to advise if AST states rent is due in advance every week, 4-weekly or per cal month.

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I have had cases in court where the new law has been applied to pre DP; since such cases are in the county courts, you won't have heard of 'case law' - it would need to be challenged and taken through the appeal courts before that occurred, and frankly, it'd take a lot longer than the seven months we've had since the law changed.

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OP did not say he paid weekly, just that he paid from week 1!

deposits taken before April 2007 and there is no new contract then it does not need to be protected; pre AST. as M51 pointed out.

 

You're correct, OP did not say weekly, but that is immaterial in any case, since the OP did say they paid from week one, which, however the rent was paid, means the four weeks paid in advance was still in existence at the point OP gave notice.

 

As for what Mariner said - see my post above this one.

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Hi All,

 

Just to clarify things, I paid weekly by standing order, paid 4 weeks rent in advance + £500 deposit and paid rent from the first week.

 

The LL said today that I didn't pay the first 4 weeks, so I need to get the statements from the bank and prove him wrong.

 

I didn't know abou the law change in April 2012, will have to look that up.

 

Thank you all for you contributions.

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yep that will be only wy to prove you paid it, good luck.

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