My employers and benefit fraud

[MiniLove82]

i recently found out from a `very` trustworthy source that the managing director at my place of employment gave the ok for the accounts department to take some money from the monthly wages of a junior director and give his wife a payslip making it look like she is working 20 hours a week so she can claim benefits but really its her husbands money. is this wrong because i think this would surely come under benefit fraud. if i were to report this does anyone have any idea what would happen to the three of them and also to my employers as i like a lot of the other senior staff who to my knowledge have no idea this is happening some one please help. I could do with some help tonight as i need to `do something` about it

[unclebulgaria67]

Well you could phone the benefits fraud line and make an annonymous report, but if they are found to be victims of gossip, then you will feel a bit guilty.

 

Unless I were 100% sure that someone was committing fraud, then I don't think I would be phoning the benefit fraud line.

[MiniLove82]

i am 110% sure and i `am` going to report them i just wondered whats going to happen

[lookinforinfo]

Why do you need to do something about it?

First-you have no actual proof that the Company is splitting the directors salary-word of mouth is insufficient. In addition, if the wife is being paid as well, she and the Company are paying National Insurance

contributions.

Second-you have no proof at all that the wife is claiming benefits. If she was entitled to benefits, she would surely be able to claim more if she was earning nothing at all.

Third-as a whistle blower you would stand a good chance of being dismissed in line with so many other whistle blowers. And they at least were sure that there was dishonesty involved.

[MiniLove82]

Surely if ive been very reliably informed i should say or are you saying i should say noting and let them get away with it surely thats wrong!!!

[LaughingGirl]

I'd be very, very careful that you have your facts correct before you do anything.

 

Basically, if they are investigated for benefit fraud and the fraud investigation team believe there is a case to answer, they will be prosecuted. There is usually some leeway depending on the amount if it's a simple case of overpayment, but this isn't...if the facts you have given are correct, it's clear cut fraud. I can't imagine that they wouldn't be prosecuted in this case.

 

A conviction for fraud can have an impact on whether or not someone can be the Director of a company, so you would have to make a qualified choice on the impact that this could have on your employer's business.

 

If you decide to do this, I would make very sure that your information cannot be traced back to either you or your very trustworthy source. If this turns out to be incorrect workplace gossip, you're unlikely to feature very high on any of the Directors Christmas card list if they figure out that it's you who reported them.

 

For what it's worth, if it was me, I wouldn't touch this with a bargepole unless I had been standing there listening while the Directors had the conversation, and then watched the accounts department put her on the payroll.

[MiniLove82]

thank you laughing girl thats what i needed to hear

[LaughingGirl]

Surely if ive been very reliably informed i should say or are you saying i should say noting and let them get away with it surely thats wrong!!!

 

Again, I would reiterate that you don't know what you've been told is actually fact.

 

Another thing to think about is that should the Police be involved in this, even if they are not prosecuted the fact they were investigated could show up on an enhanced Criminal Records Check. In other words, the decision you make could have implications for these people for many years to come, even if the information you have given turns out to be untrue.

[id6052]

The fact that somebody has been unsucessfully investigated by HMRC/DWP/LA for benefit fraud would not show up on a Criminal Records Check (basic or enhanced) - even if somebody is successfully investigated, it would not normally show up unless they were prosecuted or admitted offence under caution.

 

If you know for a fact that this is happening, you can make an anonymous allegation to HMRC/DWP/LA and allow them to investigate the matter.

[MiniLove82]

how long does it take and what do they actually do from when i report them

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Here is a link to HMRC's reporting website which should give you a lot of information.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/reportingfraud/

 

My best, HB

[Lillibelle]

I would reiterate wholly the sound advice the others have given you. You cannot surely,in all conscience,think that 2nd or 3rd hand gossip(and thats what it is,workplace gossip) is worth screwing peoples lives up.If they are committing benefit fraud they are taking a huge risk and hopefully when they get caught they will pay a far heavier price than the few quid they are gaining at the moment.

Are you sure the person who tittle tattled to you isn't setting you up? Why do you have to be the one to report this? Is the person who allegedly heard this not capable of ringing the benefits people? I would be very reluctant to act on gossip.

[id6052]

how long does it take and what do they actually do from when i report them

 

how long is a piece of string?

 

i am a bit confused as to what type of benefit fraud is actually being suggested, as to me it sounds more like a tax dodge than benefit fraud

 

each agency will approach it differently, and each investigation will be based upon the individual facts of the case, however as a rough rule of thumb, the investigating agency would

 

1. sift allegations to determine whether there was sufficient information to warrant an investigation
   
2. gather evidence if required
   
3. determine whether an interview is necessary
   
4. refer evidence to a DM for a decision
   
5. consider whether sanction action is appropriate
   

some cases could take matter of days, other cases it may be years

[LaughingGirl]

The fact that somebody has been unsucessfully investigated by HMRC/DWP/LA for benefit fraud would not show up on a Criminal Records Check (basic or enhanced) - even if somebody is successfully investigated, it would not normally show up unless they were prosecuted or admitted offence under caution.

 

If you know for a fact that this is happening, you can make an anonymous allegation to HMRC/DWP/LA and allow them to investigate the matter.

 

I agree...that's why I said that it would show if the Police were to be involved.

i am a bit confused as to what type of benefit fraud is actually being suggested, as to me it sounds more like a tax dodge than benefit fraud

 

I also think that this is very likely the case, which further makes me think that the OP doesn't have the full story, or that the person giving the OP is either misinformed or otherwise incorrect.

[Nystagmite]

It's possible to work and claim benefits at the same time. Benefits such as housing and council tax benefit are based on income and not the amount of hours you work.

[MiniLove82]

It's possible to work and claim benefits at the same time. Benefits such as housing and council tax benefit are based on income and not the amount of hours you work.

 

i dont know what your actually trying to say, surely just the fact that he is giving some of his wages to his wife making it look like she is working is wrong and surely this is fraud no matter what he is doing it for (benefit or tax dodge)

[Nystagmite]

How much of the situation do you really know? People will say anything without proof.

[abc123def]

i recently found out from a `very` trustworthy source that the managing director at my place of employment gave the ok for the accounts department to take some money from the monthly wages of a junior director and give his wife a payslip making it look like she is working 20 hours a week so she can claim benefits but really its her husbands money. is this wrong because i think this would surely come under benefit fraud. if i were to report this does anyone have any idea what would happen to the three of them and also to my employers as i like a lot of the other senior staff who to my knowledge have no idea this is happening some one please help. I could do with some help tonight as i need to `do something` about it

 

My hunch, and it's only a hunch is this is about the new child benefit rules in which case if you were to report them it would be the DWP that would be the people needing to know. If one person of the couple earns £50,000 their eligibility is affected, but each in a couple can both earn £45,000 and be fully eligible. I suspect the fathers wages are high enough to affect their eligibility, so to change that he has syphoned off some of his wages to her so that they jointly receive the same wages they would have received anyway added together, but this way remain fully eligible for child benefit.

 

Personally I think it demonstrates the stupidity of the new system on eligibility for child benefit, that one hard working person earning x amount with a hard working dedicated home maker are not eligible but two working parents both earning £45,000 so a grand £90,000 in total are.

 

Is this worth reporting? Personally, I wouldn't. But if you choose to, you can do it anonymously online. However any investigation will lead to them and those in the know in the workplace trying to work out who the informant was and two and two may well make four. Something to consider.

[id6052]

abc123def

 

your hunch makes sense, i had not thought of child benefit angle

[unclebulgaria67]

i dont know what your actually trying to say, surely just the fact that he is giving some of his wages to his wife making it look like she is working is wrong and surely this is fraud no matter what he is doing it for (benefit or tax dodge)

 

Have you considered that if fraud is investigated and it goes to court, the defendent may apply to a judge to request the details of any informants. I doubt that any judge would grant this, if there was enough evidence to support a prosecution but there is still a slim chance. I don't think annonymity is 100% guaranteed.

[jabba jones]

Have you considered that if fraud is investigated and it goes to court, the defendent may apply to a judge to request the details of any informants. I doubt that any judge would grant this, if there was enough evidence to support a prosecution but there is still a slim chance. I don't think annonymity is 100% guaranteed.

 

That wouldn't happen & if the allegation was made anonymously (as most already are) it would be impossible.

[unclebulgaria67]

That wouldn't happen & if the allegation was made anonymously (as most already are) it would be impossible.

 

I believe that they do ask for name and address details for their files.

[assisted blonde]

For what its worth I wouldnt report it unless I could hand on heart say I had never done anything wrong in my life, let him who is without sin etc etc. it may well be for tax reasons and if a benefit is awarded on income it would be on the household income so it dosnt matter who is getting it if they were a couple, the only thing it might change is the child benefit under the new rules and if it is fraudulent they may well get caught out anyway, sound liuke a bit of the old green eyed monster to me

[abc123def]

No, you can inform anonymously. The online site says you can provide your name and address if you want to be kept updated but you don't have to. Nothing would go to court based solely on anonynous evidence, it would go to court because investigators have investigated and found firm provable evidence of fraud that they can then submit. The anonymous (or otherwise) tip off isn't the evidence, it's what starts off the evidence gathering.

[honeybee13]

I believe that they do ask for name and address details for their files.

 

I don't think that's what the HMRC website says. I think I posted a link above.

 

Edit: sorry, abc, I seem to have repeated what you said.

 

HB