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    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
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h2oracle

Paying CCJ payments to a dissolved company

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Hi,

 

Just need some advise. Long story short, my previous employer took me to court in January 2011 for £3k and won and 10 months later has dissolved the company. ive been paying £100 per month for 2 years now to a dissolved company.

 

Is this right and do i have to carry on paying or should it be stopped and if so, can i claim any of it back?

 

Cheers

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I would check with the Administrator before stopping any payments.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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Hello,

 

Check whether the company is actually dissolved or whether it is under the control of an administrator. You can check this by searching for the company at the companies house website companieshouse dot gov dot uk.

 

As Andyorch said, if the company is under the control of an administrator, then they will be collecting your money on behalf of creditors of that company. It's more interesting if the company is dissolved though, because that means it can't trade and presumably can't have a bank account, which would beg the question who is receiving your money.

 

FFP


My Background: I am not legally trained so the advice I offer is as a result of my experiences in business and being dragged through a bankruptcy process by a leading London law firm over a debt that turned out to be false. I won as a litigant in person :-)

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it says disolved

 

Status: Dissolved 15/11/2011

 

but im still paying since then. What are my rights?

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So have you checked where your payments are going ? Have you contacted the Administrator ?

 

You need to do a little investigatory research here h2 then you will discover your rights.

 

Andy


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where do i get that information from? i looked on that companyhouse and doesnt say anything about administrators

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Not sure hence the suggestion of investigatory research.


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Check on the companies house website whether the company closed because it went bust, or whether it was solvent when it closed and the owners just decided to close it. If it went bust, then there will be an insolvency history link in the details and there will have been an administrator / liquidator.

 

I assume you are paying by direct debit or standing order? In which case, are you paying to the companys LTD company name? Perhaps ask you bank to confirm what the recipient account is.

 

I would have thought that a dissolved company cannot "trade" and so if a former director (for example) is collecting money paid to a company that is not trading, then they would fall foul of company law. If they wanted to continue to collect your debt, they should have gone through the appropriate steps to transfer your debt to another owner. Does the court order specify who you must pay?

 

FFP


My Background: I am not legally trained so the advice I offer is as a result of my experiences in business and being dragged through a bankruptcy process by a leading London law firm over a debt that turned out to be false. I won as a litigant in person :-)

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ye it says pay frontier business systems limited. and its an attachment of earnings from my company

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Hmmm.

 

I think I would stop paying them, on the grounds that "frontier business systems limited" was dissolved in November 2011 and therefore you cannot comply with the court order. I am assuming you have never been told that your "debt" has been transferred to anyone else?

 

Then wait and see if anyone notices. It could be that the bank account still exists but no one accesses it because they know the company is closed. In which case, no one will notice and you will know that your money is probably sitting in a bank account somewhere. Ask your bank for help to get it back perhaps.

 

If someone does notice, then you can ask them how they are entitled to receive the proceeds of the debtors to the company. If they are right, then you can restore your payments using the reasonable excuse that you needed to check the contradiction between the court order and the state of the company. However, if you have never been told about it I suspect that no-one else is entitled to your money without proper processes being observed.

 

FFP


My Background: I am not legally trained so the advice I offer is as a result of my experiences in business and being dragged through a bankruptcy process by a leading London law firm over a debt that turned out to be false. I won as a litigant in person :-)

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ive asked my employer to stop the payments, however they have told me that without the courts agreement, they still have to pay it every month out my wages. im a little confused as to who i should be taking this up with lol

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You need to make application to suspend the AoE.

 

Andy


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Presumably, payments made by your employer would always go to you and not your company, even when the company was still trading. If they have an AOE against your employer, and the company has been dissolved, it sounds like that AOE is enforcing a debt against you personally and not a debt owed by the company.

 

I think we need to get a better grasp of the documents here. Were you a defendant in the original action? You need to get a copy of the AOE - who is the debtor?


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Hi,

 

it was frontier business systems ltd (previous employer) versus me (the defendant). They won a judgement for 3k. They got an AOE from my current employer for £100 per month which is still being paid. However, months after, the company disolved and im still paying. dont know where its going and my employer says they get a demand every moth for the money and it comes out my wages.

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Ask your employer who the demand is coming from? an AOE cannot be stopped by you or your employer it has to be the court, the company may be dissolved but the administrators have to get in all the money owed to the company to pay out to the companies creditors.


If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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