Please help - court SORN fine now with bailiff!

[joonbug]

Hi all - I am new to CAG and would greatly appreciate some advice.

 

In brief,

I didn't declare a SORN on my car a few months ago and the situation then escalated to me receiving a court fine of £325 on 10th December 2012.

 

Kicking myself for not dealing with this sooner,

I had fully intended to pay up once I started a new job before Christmas.

 

However the new job fell through and I had to sign-on with the DWP on 20th December 2012.

I am now in receipt of JSA.

I am actively seeking work since I don't want to fall behind with my mortgage etc.

 

On Saturday morning (05/01/13) I received in the post a distress warrant/pre-visit letter (issued on 03/01/13)

from a certified bailiff giving me 7 days to pay in full the outstanding amount PLUS an £85 admin fee taking the fine to £410 in total.

 

Obviously I am not in a position to make full payment until I find a new job.

I should also mention that until I lost my job in November I had been paying off a speeding fine issued through the same court.

I can't afford to maintain payments to this at present either.

 

I am trying to maintain calm although the threat of someone forcing entry into my home is very worrying!

 

Is there anything I can do to stop further action being taken and incurring additional costs from the bailiff?

 

As yet I have not contacted to court or bailiff as I hope someone here can advise me on what I need to do first.

 

Many thanks.

[tomtubby]

Something seems VERY WRONG here...

 

Before even sending the case to a bailiff the court MUST first send you a Further Steps Notice which will give you 10 WORKING DAYS in which to pay the debt. There is a LEGAl requirment that this must be sent to you.

 

You say that the fine was issued on 13th December. Were you in court or did you receive notification of the fine in the post? What date did you receive notification from the court.

[ploddertom]

Think you may find these are 2 different matters as you mention a speeding fine you had been paying & I assume have now stopped.

[joonbug]

Hi - thank you for replying. I'm sorry, I should have clarified that the letter I received from the court on 10/12/12 was the further steps notice you mention. I didn't attend court, I received notification of the fine in the post some time before this. I'm afraid I have let things get on top of me and was staying with family over Christmas and New Year.

[joonbug]

Think you may find these are 2 different matters as you mention a speeding fine you had been paying & I assume have now stopped.

 

Yes, that's right - the distress notice only applies to the fine for not declaring the car SORN.

[ploddertom]

Yes, that's right - the distress notice only applies to the fine for not declaring the car SORN.

 

To be honest I would check because if you were only adjudged guilty on 10 December then they have not even given you sufficient time to pay the original fine - 3 weeks, never mind send a Final Steps Notice. There does appear to be something not quite right.

[joonbug]

To be honest I would check because if you were only adjudged guilty on 10 December then they have not even given you sufficient time to pay the original fine - 3 weeks, never mind send a Final Steps Notice. There does appear to be something not quite right.

 

Sorry - I should have been clearer in my original post. I've checked the date of the further steps notice - it is the 10th December 2012 for the amount of £325. The original fine was sent to me some weeks before that. I'm not disputing the fine - I am guilty as charged and had intended to pay it once I'd started work which paid weekly. However the job fell through and I had to sign-on.

[ploddertom]

Becomes a bit clearer now. There is an agreement between HMCTS & the Bailiff Co's allowing them to charge an Admin Fee of £85 on all Warrants they receive, should the Bailiff call then they will add another £200 to what you owe. It appears you are between a rock and a hard place as the Bailiff wants it all in full - no negotiation, and the Court will refuse to deal with you.

 

As it is a magistrates Court Fine the Bailiff will tell you he will attend with a locksmith to force entry. Strictly speaking he is telling the truth but does fail to tell you he also needs the permission of the Court to do so. This is more aimed at the persistent offender. You could try the Court and explain you are on Benefits but think it may fall on deaf ears.

 

If you fail to deal with the Bailiff he will have to return your account to the Court where you will be summonsed to explain why you have not paid, which of course does give you another opportunity.

[joonbug]

Thank you ploddertom. I will call the court first thing tomorrow and deal with the speeding fine first before it goes to a bailiff also. I have a few questions if that's ok...

 

Do you think it's worth trying to plead with the court at this stage to accept some sort of payment from my benefits and explaining about my intention to pay prior to the job falling through? Does my being unemployed /vulnerable count for anything in this matter? The reason I ask this is because last year I fell into arrears with my council tax - the court issued a liability order and a bailiff levied on my car. The council took the debt back since the fine was largely for the remainder of the year, and because I was claiming JSA and qualified for full council tax benefit.

 

If possible I would like to avoid the stress of a bailiff bashing my front door - I'd also like to avoid the escalating bailiff costs and the whole thing spiralling further out of control. I don't consider myself to be a repeat offender, through my own stupidity I've allowed myself to get into a mess with this and whilst I'm not disputing the fine, I just can't afford to pay it in one lump. That said I'm worried about the risk of ignoring the bailiff and them being granted a court order to gain entry to my home, not to mention the additional costs associated. Am I being naive in thinking that the court could save time and save me incurring additional costs by allowing me to make contributions from my JSA? Do you think there is any wiggle room here and if so how should I voice it to the court?

[ploddertom]

Thank you ploddertom. I will call the court first thing tomorrow and deal with the speeding fine first before it goes to a bailiff also. I have a few questions if that's ok... I'll try my best

 

Do you think it's worth trying to plead with the court at this stage to accept some sort of payment from my benefits and explaining about my intention to pay prior to the job falling through? I don't see any harm in trying. Does my being unemployed /vulnerable count for anything in this matter? In theory it should do but I believe the Courts look at a different set of circumstances to those outlined in the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. You may have to provide proof, award notice perhaps. The reason I ask this is because last year I fell into arrears with my council tax - the court issued a liability order and a bailiff levied on my car. The council took the debt back since the fine was largely for the remainder of the year, and because I was claiming JSA and qualified for full council tax benefit. Did you have to pay any Bailiff fees, did you get a breakdown of their charges?

If possible I would like to avoid the stress of a bailiff bashing my front door - I'd also like to avoid the escalating bailiff costs and the whole thing spiralling further out of control. I don't consider myself to be a repeat offender, through my own stupidity I've allowed myself to get into a mess with this and whilst I'm not disputing the fine, I just can't afford to pay it in one lump. That said I'm worried about the risk of ignoring the bailiff and them being granted a court order to gain entry to my home, not to mention the additional costs associated. Am I being naive in thinking that the court could save time and save me incurring additional costs by allowing me to make contributions from my JSA? Do you think there is any wiggle room here and if so how should I voice it to the court? I appreciate your concerns and confess it is easy for me to say this, that or the other that may or may not help you.

 

I will ask someone else to look in and see if they can offer some advice to you.

[joonbug]

Hi - in relation to the council tax issue, yes I had to pay the bailiff fees before the council would take the debt back. The fees were £22.50 for a visit and £48 levy fee.

 

I searched CAG earlier and found this thread: "Vulnerable groups and defining "vulnerability *CONSULTATION*" (I can't post the link until I have posted 10 times sorry)

 

... and then my heart sank even lower.

 

When you say I may have to provide proof, award notice - do you mean provide the court with proof of my JSA claim?

 

I will ask someone else to look in and see if they can offer some advice to you.

 

Any further advice would be much appreciated - and thank you again.

[ploddertom]

Hi - in relation to the council tax issue, yes I had to pay the bailiff fees before the council would take the debt back. The fees were £22.50 for a visit and £48 levy fee. Are you sure the charges were legitimate? Were they both charged on the same day? You have 6 years in which to claim back any overpayment.

 

I searched CAG earlier and found this thread: "Vulnerable groups and defining "vulnerability *CONSULTATION*" (I can't post the link until I have posted 10 times sorry) - That was only a consultation of a new possible proposal, try a search for National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

... and then my heart sank even lower.

 

When you say I may have to provide proof, award notice - do you mean provide the court with proof of my JSA claim? Yes

 

 

 

Any further advice would be much appreciated - and thank you again.

 

PT

[joonbug]

Hi all - here's an update since my last post. I called the court in relation to my speeding fine. The good new is that I only have £85 left to pay. However I must pay £10 per week over 8 weeks with a final payment of £5, which is just about manageable on an income of £65 per week JSA.

 

Then I called the bailiff. They were willing to allow me to make payment in instalments, which is a better response to the one I expected. However they were unwilling to negotiate a feasable/manageable payment plan. I must pay £20.50 per week over 20 weeks. Ah well.. at least the guy on the phone was friendly if not particularly helpful and I suppose I am grateful that at this stage I won't have them knocking my door and incurring more costs, provided that I don't miss any payments. Living on £34.50 per week will be a challenge with 4 rescue dogs and 2 rabbits to feed. Anyone got any tips on extra super frugal living??

 

Let's hope I get a job real soon!

[brassnecked]

Hi all - here's an update since my last post. I called the court in relation to my speeding fine. The good new is that I only have £85 left to pay. However I must pay £10 per week over 8 weeks with a final payment of £5, which is just about manageable on an income of £65 per week JSA.

 

Then I called the bailiff. They were willing to allow me to make payment in instalments, which is a better response to the one I expected. However they were unwilling to negotiate a feasable/manageable payment plan. I must pay £20.50 per week over 20 weeks. Ah well.. at least the guy on the phone was friendly if not particularly helpful and I suppose I am grateful that at this stage I won't have them knocking my door and incurring more costs, provided that I don't miss any payments. Living on £34.50 per week will be a challenge with 4 rescue dogs and 2 rabbits to feed. Anyone got any tips on extra super frugal living??

 

Let's hope I get a job real soon!

 

This makes me spit, the bailiff should be taken out and shot, the account should be back with the court and the bailiff fees flushed down the toilet. You are vulnerable on JSA.