Discussion Thread - for those with mortgage arrears charges, irresponsible lending or other unfair lender conduct

[BankFodder]

Link to original article : -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?296108-Hot-news-for-anyone-who-has-suffered-mortgage-arrears-charges-irresponsible-lending-or-other-unfair-lender-conduct

 

This thread is open for discussion regarding

 

Mortgage arrears charges

Irresponsible Lending

Other Unfair Lender conduct.

 

If you have a question that is specific to your own situation, please start your own thread and pop a link on this thread for others to follow.

Edited January 6, 2013 by citizenB

[Fielder]

Dear Bankfodder

Could you please tell me how to begin to claim back overcharges in interest and charges.

I would like to go back to 1990, is this possible in your view?

Many thanks,

Fielder

[Helplessconsumer]

BANKFODDER Does anyone know if any case of mis-selling has been brought against any sub-prime lenders ?

 

Can anyone help me urgently draft my appeal against latest judgement & eviction date ? I lack legal knowledge & do not have the time in just two days to find out enough about how to formulate the appeal and what to claim.

 

I need really urgent help because I only have two days left to appeal correctly enough to be allowed to appeal at all and get an eviction set aside for March 22.

 

I also need help because I get the impression that the courts and legal industry is devoted to not taking on mis-selling claims in the sub-prime lending arena and think I need help to avoid being flummoxed by rubbish from the courts.

 

I need to file appeal and get further stay of eviction to give me the time needed to properly formulate appeal and fight mis-selling case.

 

For instance, surely I must be able to set aside the repossession judgement so as to allow my claim for mis-selling. On what grounds can the repossession judgements be set aside ? Help anyone ?

 

Also I need to show I did have ‘clean hands’ How can I do that. On what grounds can my action of incorrectly filling our mortgage application be exonerated to then give me ‘clean hands’ ?

 

I do need a bit of urgent help. I was repossessed and then waited a year going through the mortgage rescue process. I was accepted, ticked all the boxes etc, then it was handed over to the housing association.

 

They sent a surveyor around to see what repairs etc might need doing to bring house up to minimum letting standard. There is a budget of £20 000 for any repairs.

 

The housing association surveyor produced a completely fictional list of items with equally fictional cost estimates to bring the total up to £27 000. It was wickedly dishonest.

 

This was then used by the housing association to refuse mortgage rescue at the last minute, leaving me being evicted soon, March 22nd.

 

The real costs of repair works by the way was about £7000 maximum, and is very easily proved. But the housing association are adamant and have even refused my offer to find the excess cost.

 

I was advised by the government quango that oversees mortgage rescue that this inflated repairs estimate was simply being used as device to allow the housing association to refuse to buy my house because it had run out of funding.

 

So, I managed to stop the last eviction date by making an application to the court asking the court to consider ‘proportionality’ of eviction under Human Rights Act in view of recent Pinnock judgement and also asking the court for leave to file a counterclaim for miss-selling.

 

The judge said I couldn’t make a claim for miss-selling as too much time had elapsed ( the mortgage is only about three years old) and I had also ‘affirmed’ the mortgage by making payments (which apparently also barred me from making and miss-selling claim). Also, a third reason I could not claim miss-selling and equitable relief (compensation in plain English) was that I had ‘unclean hands’ as I had mis-stated income etc on mortgage application and was partly to blame and the law says anyone seeking equitable relief must have ‘clean hands’.

 

The judge did accept his court had a liability to consider proportionality and he did consider whether it was proportionate that I was evicted etc for long winded reasons given in judgement.

 

So I have presumably pushed the legal boundaries of the Pinnock judgement further by establishing that the Pinnock judgement on ‘proportionality’ (human rights act) does in fact apply to private householders as well as local authority tenants. this had not been made clear by Pinnock.

 

I have arranged a transcription of this judgement & will post it here when I get it in a day or two. The judgement will provide a platform stating points on which to fight the case.

 

But, I was mis-sold and thoroughly misled. I told the judge I would appeal ( he had refused leave to appeal, but I can appeal against that & ask for leave to appeal from a higher court.)

 

I have just two days left to lodge that appeal before I am out of time. Some of the reasons for my mis-selling claim are :

 

The mortgage was misrepresented

 

I was taken unfair advantage of by the broker

 

The broker applied duress

 

There was a conflict of interest between broker & lender.

 

Below is a list of mis-selling tests taken from Aventra & other sites. I think just about all of them apply to me.

“How can I tell if I have a mis-sold mortgage?

Can you answer YES to any of the questions below:”

 

• Were you encouraged to self-certify or falsify your income to get a mortgage?

• Did the lender regularly remortgage you to keep on a low rate?

• Did the broker charge you a large finders fee?

• Is the mortgage on an interest-only basis with no repayment vehicle?

• Did the mortgage go past your normal retirement age?

 

• Your mortgage was an interest only mortgage?

 

• Your mortgage runs past your retirement age?

 

• You acquired your mortgage through a sub prime mortgage lender?

 

• You made a Self certification mortgage application?

 

• You had adverse credit when you acquired your mortgage?

 

• You re-mortgage for Debt consolidation purposes?

 

• Your affordability was not considered when you made your application?

 

• You are now in negative equity?

 

• You were advised to switch to another lender?

 

• You have had your property repossessed?

 

Other points of law I have looked up indicate I have other ‘points of law’ grounds for mis-selling, Viz:

 

- Coercion

 

- Misrepresentation

 

- Duress

 

(Economic duress

A contract is voidable if the innocent party can prove that it had no other practical choice (as opposed to legal choice

but to agree to the contract. The elements of economic duress

1. Wrongful or improper threat: No precise definition of what is wrongful or improper. Examples include: morally wrong, criminal, or tortuous conduct; one that is a threat to breach a contract "in bad faith" or threaten to withhold an admitted debt "in bad faith".

2. Lack of reasonable alternative (but to accept the other party's terms). If there is an available legal remedy, an available market substitute (in the form of funds, goods, or services), or any other sources of funds this element is not met.

3. The threat actually induces the making of the contract. This is a subjective standard, and takes into account the victim's age, their background (especially their education), relationship of the parties, and the ability to receive advice.

4. The other party caused the financial distress. The majority opinion is that the other party must have caused the distress, while the minority opinion allows them to merely take advantage of the distress.

 

 

- Unjust enrichment

 

- Lack of fiduciary duty by broker to me

 

I think there are more points of law that SPML & the broker (owned by US bank Capital one) drove their evil bulldozer of fraud right through, but I haven’t the time to list them; but you get the point.

 

Many of the people who were sold mortgages by spml & others will all have some or even all of these points of law to claim against Ascenden & Co.

 

I think virtually all of this list applies to me.

 

 

 

There couldn’t be a more clearer case of mis-selling than in my case as I also informed the broker I was a single parent with sole, unsupported care of a child & I was surviving on State benefits. I also explained the purpose of the mortgage was to repay previous lender who had completed repossession and listed eviction date.

 

Can we ALL get together & use my case to forge a precedent of common law that all the other sub-prime victims cans use too ? Possibly organise it into a class action.

 

I feel the point about my claim ( & I haven’t had the time to tell the whole story here & there is lots more & it is a corker) is that I am such an obvious victim and repeat victim and have so MANY grounds of mis-selling that surely it must succeed and then others can follow ?

 

Has ANYONE yet brought a claim for mis-selling ?

 

Anyone out there ?

[Fielder]

What a story! I really feel for you, knowing that evistion from your home is just two days away is the most frightening feeling.

 

I cannot offer any help, I know nothing. When I was in the same position last year I used the court duty solicitor. But I think your case is more complicated than mine. Do you have a local housing action group/trust that have solicitors?

 

I am in similar position regarding the mis-selling, but would bringing it to light jeopardise the mortgage (a terrible one I know) I have at the moment. I am with you, lets try and organise something.

[donein]

Does anyone know what happened here ??

[Helplessconsumer]

donein, I know ! But I haven't had the time to do any posting here.

 

In a nutshell :

 

I asked the next highest court for permission to appeal. I was a litigant in person. The judge interrupted me within a few minutes and said , "Do not spoil what is a very good case with allegations of fraud...............I mean to say do not spoil what may be a very good case by making allegations of fraud in my court".

 

He then proceeded to interrupt me a further couple of times, telling me to 'get on with it'. I had only been giving the background history and had only been speaking for less than five minutes !

 

On the last interruption from him I was quite unsure what on earth I could say about any aspect of the case as he seemed to be just shutting me up for anything I said, so my exact words to him at this point were " I seem to have petered out' which I said merely as something to say while I tried to think of what next I would be 'allowed' to say.

 

In an instant he turned to the barrister for other side (mortgage lender) and asked them to make their submission, which they did. Within just a microsecond of them finishing, the Judge went straight into his judgement which I could not then interrupt; and when it was finished he leapt up to leave the court. I could do nothing. The nasty little toad had deliberately 'steamrollered' me out of the court and out of permission to appeal.

 

So, I was evicted the next day, some of the contents of my house stolen by the people 'securing the house' for the estate agent.

 

The local council said I was 'intentionally homeless' and refused to re-house my son and I, thereby breaking the law. The housing charity Shelter thought the council had no grounds in law for making this bizarre claim and offered help in asking the council for a review of this spiteful decision. The council didn't change their mind. Shelter would not pursue it further.

 

Social services tried several times to stop paying for B&B accommodation for my son and I and tried to throw both of us out onto the street at least twice. And in the six months we have been in B&B all sorts of ghastly things have happened and NOTHING WHATEVER has been done by the council or social services to assist in re-housing my son and I. We are powerless as I am penniless and reliant on benefits, the full amount of which I am not getting.

 

Two days ago social services had yet another go at throwing us out onto the streets the next day with no warning whatever. Then they relented and said they would only pay for the B&B for just one more week and then throw us out anyway. They told I had just one week to find privately rented accommodation, for which I could claim housing benefit.

 

But all the estate agents do not want to deal with benefit claimants or the council and they want guarantors for the rent. I cannot provide a guarantor.

 

Oh, and the council said they were taking possession of the entire contents of my house which they had removed and stored and they would be disposing of them.

 

Frankly, I am not sure who are the most criminally brutal and nasty: The purely evil mortgage lenders, the utterly corrupt courts, or the violently abusive bureaucrats of the council; take your pick. They have all been utterly disgusting specimens of humanity in my experience.

 

So, I have been beaten into the ground. I have only told you a fraction of it.

 

But I really really want to bring all of these vermin to account, and what I need to do that is legal help - which I can't get because lawyers are totally uninterested in taking on cases like this for legally aided people. It would be quite different if I had the money to pay the lawyers their going rate out of my own pocket.

 

 

 

Anyone here willing and able to help in any way ?

[donein]

OMG so where are you living now ? what are do you plan to do next?

[Helplessconsumer]

Bankfodder,

 

When I tried to make a case for mis-selling in the County Court when I was trying to fight of eviction, the Judge was ridiculous. He just dismissed any claim I might have on the grounds of 'out of time', & I had made payments, thereby acknowledging mortgage contract etc, and, most damning of all, I did not have 'clean hands' because I had self certified and filled out mortgage application form. The Judge also wittered on about how the poor lender might lose money if I wasn't evicted immediately and he said this has been 'going on long enough' (and must be concluded because the poor lender is suffering so). He also refused permission to appeal and rabitted on about all this was entirely proportional (re recent ECHR proportionality precedent case)

 

However. I do have clean hands as I told broker I had no income other than benefits & broker filled out salary figure over phone & I only ever talked about my intention to get back to work and salary I would expect as a self employed person.

 

The Judge was talking total rubbish. And it is only now that I realise how casually these judges make things up as they go along as most people are just bamboozled by them.

 

But I feel totally powerless without at least basic legal advice and although I qualify for legal aid it is impossible to get a solicitor.

 

So it seems your advice on fighting through the County courts instead of the Ombudsman is a bit hollow ?

[genesuncut]

I have recently had a suspended reposession order on a commercial mortgage.The arrears that were subject to that order have been paid in full. However, the mortgage company say they are entitled to keep this order in place for the duration of the loan, against future monthly payments. I feel like I have got a constant gun to my head. Are they correct?

[mach 1]

I require assistance regarding high mortgage interest rates. Specifically my query relates to interest rates charged by the same Lender for the same standard mortgage on a mortgage that is in arrears being higher than for mortgages that are not in arrears. I know that there has been a case (in the High Court I believe) that identified that this practice was illegal, but I despite extensive searching I am unable to locate it. The legal decision was of such profound importance, I just cannot understand why all the Google searches have failed to locate it

 

I have suffered extortionate interest rates for over 20 years with my infamous mortgage lender and there is a large amount of money involved. If anyone is able to assist with knowledge of this particular case it may well save the loss of my home

[citizenB]

mach1, do you have any idea of how recent this case might be ?

[tifo]

I need help on reclaiming arrears fees. I have a thread for it on here.

 

I've been through the FOS who've said the arrears charges are fair and the bank has given them an estimate. They've ignored everything I've said about the charges being related to costs only, unfair terms and disproportionate amounts in compensation, breakdown of each charge which relates to a breach and much more.

 

My mortgage was 'sold' a few times and the whole balance was paid off to 'old creditor' and then added back on again to 'new creditor'. The FOS has totally ignored my questions about this.

 

They've tried to use the test case on current account charges as a precedent and that UTCCR Reg 6.2 excludes any assessment on a core service, which charges are not because they are an incidental charge.

 

The bank has now given me 1 week to pay all arrears in cleared funds whilst the FOS gave me until mid march to respond to the final decision.

 

The bank has a suspended possession order from 2008 which they will now execute a warrant on. I need to have this order somehow set aside because the capital and arrears balance includes arrears charges and associated compound interest and I found out about these being truly unfair after the FSA fined those lenders and the banking crisis hearing which detailed securitisation. Before this I had no idea the mortgage might have been sold many times.

[miss money worry]

i am going through a similar experience although not at the stage of repossession. This will however be inevitable. What i need to say is have any of you heard of the A4V (accepted for value)? Also.. the lender...or whoever has initiated the repossession proceedings (NRAM?nationwide lloyds etc etc HAS to prove they are the 'owner' of the debt/mortgage by producing the following...the title deed AND the original 'wet ink' signed promissory note/mortgage application which HAS to be signed by BOTH the applicant and the lender on the SAME page/document. BOTH these documents MUST be produced together for any claim to repossession. This in most cases WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE as most lenders 'sell' your loan onto a 3rd party almost as soon as they have completed...and in doing this they have to also pass along your promissory not...meaning they CANNOT possibly produce the original documents in court. NO DOCUMENTS NO CLAIM. simple.... i hope this makes sense. I am still researching this, DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT..i am NOT a solicitor, just trying my best to come up with a legal defense for when my lender tries to take me to court, hopefully by using the above, they wont even try! x good luck all x

[andrew1]

What is glaringly obvious from the posts made by helplessconsumer is that a judge can shatter any chance of justice in what looks like a totally unfair assessment and have him and his son evicted.

 

What I advise everyone to do if they lose, whether or not they take the option up within the 21 days you have after the trial doesn't matter, but even in circumstances where the judge just ups and runs from the court you phone the court BEFORE the Judgement is written up by the court clerks and ask permission to appeal AND ask him/her to complete an N460.

 

If what happens is as so described above, Litigants in person (Defendants - us) are shocked, stunned and speechless trying to understand what on earth they can do about this injustice, but after you've calmed down and feel you want to appeal once the Judgement has been handed down you have to jump through endless hoops to get the appeal. Do it BEFORE the ink has dried, preferably whilst you are still in the court after the judge has completed their summing up.

 

This is a window of opportunity and one such cagger experienced this in floods of tears who had been turned down in court for an appeal, but managed to phone the court after we encouraged her that same day and ask the judge to complete the N460. This is useful in determining exactly why the judge came to his/her decision for an appeal hearing and will have just saved you from being evicted as has happened to helplessconsumer and it just shouldn't happen.

[Jayney69]

Would this also be the case for secured lenders such as Welcome Finance?

[andrew1]

Would this also be the case for secured lenders such as Welcome Finance?

 

If you are asking about my post Jayney69 the answer is yes...

[Crapstone]

Sorry to see that Bankfodder retreated from this one and the advice back-fired on helplessconsumer. Who cares about damages and interest when it's your home at stake? Go to the Ombudsman first as at least that gives you time to get everything in place before you go to court as the decision is only binding on the company. To tell people that are already in financial trouble to go to court first is ludicrous amd I know I'd be in the same position as helplessconsumer if I had. I'm with the same lender and have had everthing that helplessconsumer has had but I've managed to turn everything around via the Ombudsman. So it took a lot of time and effort and not much of a reward but at the end of it I still have my house, gotten rid of all the charges and have cleared all the arrears.

 

When I went to court, on a different matter, the judge couldn't even understand what a budget sheet was! It meant nothing to them in their ivory tower. My advice is to take no notice of what people try to tell you to do. Just do what is right for you.

[It's time]

I was on the phone to swift enquiring about a £23 charge , informed a 3rd party had sent them a letter requarding an over payment on my acct so Swift charged me £23 for replying to them .. Like wtf .. Well the nice lady says she will refund it .. if I hadn't rung bet there wouldn't been no refund .. I think I need to request a SAR now

[andrew1]

You also need to inform either the OFT if it's Swift Advances plc [email protected] or the FSA if it's Swift 1st as a 1st mtg....DO NOT just rely on an SAR, although do that too and ask for an A3 sized copy of their Actuarial Accrual Account Summary sheet too. You'll get an idea from that what they've been up to. A4 size you can't read without a massive magnifine glass and they will send A3 if you ask for it specifically.

[mgzteed]

I'm someone who was sold via Ocean Finance a loan from Blemain at a time when we were in desperate financial need, part of my house had collpsed, and I fit all the criteria perfectly.In fact we ahd accepted a loan and signed the deal with ocean but they changed to Blemain at the 11th hour and we were rushed through the deal by a guy who called and caught us with what I now appreciAte was a hard sell.

So what can I do?

[It's time]

In the same conversation above I said I wasn't happy with the whole process & I really shouldn't have been ok'd for a mortgage .. Today I receive a letter from swiftfirst ..

 

With reference to your telephone conversation & you expressed concerned regarding the sale process when you took out your mortgage , specifically , that the mortgage has been mis- sold to you ..

 

I said my income is the same now as it was when I 1st got the mortgage & tbh I don't think I should have been accepted .

 

Swift are not directly involved in the sales process or any negotiations between me & the broker so are unable to deal with my complaint .. Address your concerns to them under their complaints process .. Their contacts details have been given in the letter ...

 

The name & address of the broker is not the one I dealt with , I've googled it & the name given have received a fine from the FSA £35000 in dec 2009 for something to do with mortgages & crime risks .. Totally confused now . The broker I dealt with went into liquidation as far as I'm aware .

[mgzteed]

At the top of this sites header there are several companies offering to collect in such circumstances.

To me they look like ppi claimers we are often warned off. Do the site officials give their unqualified approval, as I can't find anyone else to take on Blemain for me.

[mgzteed]

any answers?

[mgzteed]

could anyone advise me too please.

[andrew1]

At the top of this sites header there are several companies offering to collect in such circumstances.

To me they look like ppi claimers we are often warned off. Do the site officials give their unqualified approval, as I can't find anyone else to take on Blemain for me.

 

I think this is to do with getting revenue for the site to help fund it....the site doesn't endorse products too much other than books from what I know, but these links end up as part of some kind of Google package and unfortunately some of the companies fall into 'related' products to our site content.

 

Don't like it myself, but the site needs donations and funding too and someone has to pay for it...That's what I understand anyway, I may be wrong.