ESA & the Work Programme

[caledfwlch]

I just wanted to ask a couple of questions (my next appointment with the Provider tomorrow) and thought it might be handy to have a list of "cans/can'ts"

 

Does an ESA Claimant have to give the pimp a copy of their CV? Is a refusal sanctionable?

 

What are the main sanctionable "offences" where an ESA claimant being sent to a provider is concerned?

 

Apart from not turning up, obviously.

 

They do not seem to be doing risk assessments, or indeed actually checking with people before their first appointment if they need special accomodations. My provider is at a location up several stairs - someone with a wheelchair turning up esp if alone is going to have problems, but the letters made no mention of this.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I just wanted to ask a couple of questions (my next appointment with the Provider tomorrow) and thought it might be handy to have a list of "cans/can'ts"

 

Does an ESA Claimant have to give the pimp a copy of their CV? Is a refusal sanctionable?

 

What are the main sanctionable "offences" where an ESA claimant being sent to a provider is concerned?

 

Apart from not turning up, obviously.

 

They do not seem to be doing risk assessments, or indeed actually checking with people before their first appointment if they need special accomodations. My provider is at a location up several stairs - someone with a wheelchair turning up esp if alone is going to have problems, but the letters made no mention of this.

Although it is necessary to provide a copy of a CV for reference, there is no need to provide a permanent copy.

 

If it is the first meeting - they may try to persuade you to sign a Data Protection Waiver - but, as stipulated within the form, it is not necessary for you to sign, and no sanction would arise if you did not.

 

As for more general issues, check out http://consent.me.uk/ , get a twitter account, and follow @boycottworkfare and @refuted.org.uk

 

Further, check out the DWP Provider Guidance, accessible via http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml

[caledfwlch]

Although it is necessary to provide a copy of a CV for reference, there is no need to provide a permanent copy.

 

If it is the first meeting - they may try to persuade you to sign a Data Protection Waiver - but, as stipulated within the form, it is not necessary for you to sign, and no sanction would arise if you did not.

 

As for more general issues, check out http://consent.me.uk/ , get a twitter account, and follow @boycottworkfare and @refuted.org.uk

 

Further, check out the DWP Provider Guidance, accessible via http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml

 

I had my first meeting just before Xmas - I refused to sign both Waivers.

 

Interestingly whilst very annoyed other both, it was the second waiver they threatened me with being "sanctioned" over, this was they said, permission for them to store information sent to them by the DWP.

[osdset]

ESA claimants mandated to the WP need definitive guidance over this, as our situation is somewhat different to JSA claimants.

 

Would refusal to sign the data waiver prevent WP from mandating a claimant onto workfare? If the answer is no then it's not much of a weapon, as the pimps can't force these claimants into paid work. I'm wondering if this action might just make life harder, one workfare placement after another as revenge for bucking the system.

[caledfwlch]

ESA claimants mandated to the WP need definitive guidance over this, as our situation is somewhat different to JSA claimants.

 

Would refusal to sign the data waiver prevent WP from mandating a claimant onto workfare? If the answer is no then it's not much of a weapon, as the pimps can't force these claimants into paid work. I'm wondering if this action might just make life harder, one workfare placement after another as revenge for bucking the system.

 

I imagine getting out of a placement will be easy for those of us on ESA. You arrive on day 1, and ask the employer if his workplace insurance etc will cover your health problems, and will the employer take responsibility if the placement worsens any of your conditions. They wont want to touch you with a barge pole. The Provider cannot stop you asking those questions, and you cannot be sanctioned for asking them - they are legitimate questions and concerns. The chances are highly likely that Employers Insurance will in absolutely no way cover a person who is currently signed off by their GP as unfit to work. Just 1 little accident, could cost an employer an absolute fortune since they will have to pay for it themselves.

 

I have problems in my legs and arms which is spreading, causes balance issues and other things, so tripping down steps at a workplace is extremely likely, especially combined with another condition which causes clumsyness. If it happened, I would be more than happy to sue the employer for compensation. It's the risk you take for deciding to use free staff that have been classified as unfit to work by a medical professional.

 

It will be difficult to arrange a placement without the waivers being signed I expect, certainly not impossible, but will take more work. Even with the waiver signed, is it exhaustive enough to give a Provider permission to discuss with a 3rd party, ie an employer, your medical problems?

 

Also, refusing to sign the waivers is important, as it will also make it near impossible for the Provider to make much money from you.

[phil76]

I imagine getting out of a placement will be easy for those of us on ESA. You arrive on day 1, and ask the employer if his workplace insurance etc will cover your health problems, and will the employer take responsibility if the placement worsens any of your conditions. They wont want to touch you with a barge pole. The Provider cannot stop you asking those questions, and you cannot be sanctioned for asking them - they are legitimate questions and concerns. The chances are highly likely that Employers Insurance will in absolutely no way cover a person who is currently signed off by their GP as unfit to work. Just 1 little accident, could cost an employer an absolute fortune since they will have to pay for it themselves.

 

I have problems in my legs and arms which is spreading, causes balance issues and other things, so tripping down steps at a workplace is extremely likely, especially combined with another condition which causes clumsyness. If it happened, I would be more than happy to sue the employer for compensation. It's the risk you take for deciding to use free staff that have been classified as unfit to work by a medical professional.

 

It will be difficult to arrange a placement without the waivers being signed I expect, certainly not impossible, but will take more work. Even with the waiver signed, is it exhaustive enough to give a Provider permission to discuss with a 3rd party, ie an employer, your medical problems?

 

Also, refusing to sign the waivers is important, as it will also make it near impossible for the Provider to make much money from you.

 

I'm on esa for depression and anxiety and was told I have to go on work programme it's making feel worse after reading this thread what does waiver mean?

 

Thanks

[caledfwlch]

I'm on esa for depression and anxiety and was told I have to go on work programme it's making feel worse after reading this thread what does waiver mean?

 

Thanks

 

Basically they will want you to sign some bits of paper. Do not sign it. They will claim you can lose your benefits if you dont sign. This is not true.

[phil76]

Basically they will want you to sign some bits of paper. Do not sign it. They will claim you can lose your benefits if you dont sign. This is not true.

 

Thank you,why is it best not to sign the papers?

[caledfwlch]

Thank you,why is it best not to sign the papers?

 

For example, those papers pretty much give them the right to sell your personal info on, to marketing organisations and so on - and if times are hard, you can bet they will. You should never, ever give up your data protection rights, except for a good reason and one that benefits you - applying for a bank account say.

 

Signing these forms for the Pimps does not benefit you in any way, it just turns you into a cash cow for the pimp. If they turn out to be useless, do nothing for you, and you manage to find yourself a job, they will still claim up to 15 grand of the government for you!

 

Also, people have lost their brand new jobs, thanks to the Pimps telephoning the new employer. Do you really want some company you have no control over, being able to contact your new employer for up to 2 years?

[osdset]

Thank you,why is it best not to sign the papers?

 

Because retaining your rights under the data protection act, really, really, gets up the pimps noses:oops:

[caledfwlch]

It's worked for me anyway.

 

Having refused to sign any waivers, in conversation offering up no information about myself, my past except specifically what they ask and in few words, on my meeting on Monday they have told me from now on they will just Email me every 2 weeks, rather than except me in.

 

The refusal to sign the waivers, and the argument we had over it which showed I knew my rights means that I am not worth their time as they can make very, very little money from me.

[osdset]

It's worked for me anyway.

 

Having refused to sign any waivers, in conversation offering up no information about myself, my past except specifically what they ask and in few words, on my meeting on Monday they have told me from now on they will just Email me every 2 weeks, rather than except me in.

 

The refusal to sign the waivers, and the argument we had over it which showed I knew my rights means that I am not worth their time as they can make very, very little money from me.

 

 

Nice one!

 

I have all this to come no doubt, so far I have not even been called in for a WFI, I expect the current peace and quiet to be shattered once last years cobwebs have blown away at DWP towers.

[joeski]

do you have to sign them if you are on JSA or is it just ESA if don't have to sign them on?

[osdset]

do you have to sign them if you are on JSA or is it just ESA if don't have to sign them on?

 

NO ONE has to sign them, you are protected by the DPA whoever you are.

[joeski]

NO ONE has to sign them, you are protected by the DPA whoever you are.

 

thats good, the whole WP has sent my worrying into over drive

[Nystagmite]

Also, people have lost their brand new jobs, thanks to the Pimps telephoning the new employer. Do you really want some company you have no control over, being able to contact your new employer for up to 2 years?

 

This is disgusting.

[SWLABR9]

It's also dumb considering the WPs make their money from how long they've got someone into employment for. But, these people are carrion, bottom feeders, so you can't expect them to have any sense really.

[phil76]

It's worked for me anyway.

 

Having refused to sign any waivers, in conversation offering up no information about myself, my past except specifically what they ask and in few words, on my meeting on Monday they have told me from now on they will just Email me every 2 weeks, rather than except me in.

 

The refusal to sign the waivers, and the argument we had over it which showed I knew my rights means that I am not worth their time as they can make very, very little money from me.

 

Sorry if I'm being thick here but do I not sign any papers at all that they give me?i have my first appointment with WP soon and just want to know what to do

[osdset]

This is disgusting.

 

Yep, what many people don't take into account and the pimps go to great pains to hide is the perceived stigma attached to the WP. A prospective employer may well be forgiven for thinking that a candidate that's been through one year kicking his/her heels on JCP, followed by weeks, months or even years on the WP is not very employable, any reference to the WP on a CV is IMHO a sure fire way of not getting the job, I would simply state that I had been self employed for the period in question.

 

How would I then feel if the pimp had phoned my new employer to obtain their financial blood transfusion, resulting in my dismissal for lying on a CV and job application? Murderous springs to mind!

 

Admittedly lying on a CV, and a job application is frowned on, but it's dog eat dog out there, anything a person can do to get on is OK with me, I'd rather be a liar than a loser.

[caledfwlch]

Sorry if I'm being thick here but do I not sign any papers at all that they give me?i have my first appointment with WP soon and just want to know what to do

 

Don't sign anything at all. The DWP confirmed that you do not need to sign anything, and you cannot be sanctioned for refusing to sign.

[phil76]

Don't sign anything at all. The DWP confirmed that you do not need to sign anything, and you cannot be sanctioned for refusing to sign.

 

Thank you