ESA - Sick of it

[Merker]

I am banging my head against a brick wall as I type this with a roller coaster like no other. The whole government seem to be nothing but **** who wont let anyone have a penny unless they are bedridden.

 

Anyway onto my situation. I have no idea with benefits, have never claimed or been on them before. I had left my job in August.

 

September 2012 and I had an injury to my left arm. This was seen as serious since it was Flexor tendons and radial nerve that was damaged. Guidelines from the NHS said recovery is a minimum of 6 weeks after the operation. In that time my arm was strapped constantly to my right shoulder and I was told not to move it since any work or moving it could undo the operation on my tendons and I may lose the full use of my fingers.

 

To me and you thats clearly a reason that I am unfit for work. Clearly nowhere would employ me since if my stitched tendons snapped whilst I was working they dont want to get in trouble for possible permanent loss of being able to use my fingers properly and how could I work when I was only able to have limited usage of my 1 arm (due to the other arm being strapped to my shoulder).

 

Due to a massive collection of mistakes by the hospital, my claim was put in as a backdated claim when my injury was pretty much healed. The delay was caused due to being given wrong dr's notes, hospital mixups, lack of being given correct info, as well as numerous other things.

 

My claim was only put in at the start of December because I didnt even realise I could put the claim in without a doctors sick note. At the end of December I had an email off the hospitals PALS department saying my correct doctors notes were sent to my GP and I could get a sick note and continue my claim for ESA.

 

I then had the questionaire form come through... the ESA50 form and literally I feel sick. The questions are stupid and from what I read you need at least 15 points to have a claim accepted... Even when my arm was bad I could do most things it asks perfectly fine (what relevance does being able to move from 1 chair to another or walking up 2 steps have to do with an arm injury?).

 

Clearly I am never going to score 15 points, then if i'm called in for an assessment they will clearly see my arm is healed and will refuse me any money (even though I only want it backdated for about 10 weeks from the start of September until November).

 

Because of the last few months and all the stress it has caused me I feel as though I have also sunk into a new low with my depression and anxiety. I have no motivation, can barely get out of bed, my personal hygiene suffers where I can't even be bothered to shower and I wear the same socks for weeks on end. Family do my washing or it would never be done. I have suicidal thoughts nearly every day, but am too much of a coward to go ahead with things. Anxiety wise I am often jumpy and nervous, I cant even buy something in a shop without getting really nervous and panicky unless someone I know well is with me or I have drunk alcohol to gain confidence. Even to book a doctors appointment for Monday I had to get some random stranger I only talk to online to phone my surgery and book it due to having too much anxiety to phone.

 

 

Monday is dr's where I will try and get a backdated sicknote for my arm injury... but what is the chance of the claims department actually allowing me to claim it for 10 or so backdated weeks without needing an assessment and whats the chance of them approving it if I don't score 15 on the questionnaire?

 

Also regarding my depression issue. I will say to dr's, however my claim for ESA was specifically for my injured arm... not depression, so if dr does sign me off for depression will I have to make a new claim?

 

 

Thanks

Edited January 6, 2013 by Merker

[Nystagmite]

You only need 15 points once you've had your face to face assessment. Some people have temporary medical issues (such as a broken arm) so they're able to return to work and close their claim before they're called for a medical. Whether this will be your case, I don't know.

[unclebulgaria67]

You can be signed off by your doctor for multiple issues. Reading your post, most of your problem in regard to DWP is fear of how the system works and that they will make you jump many impossible hurdles. Yes there are posts on here and elsewhere where people have not been treated fairly, but you don't see posts on here where people have had no problems at all. You have to remember that it is normal for people to post about bad experiences and that it is unusual to post about any good experiences. Try to believe that people that you come into contact with working for DWP or your Doctors are there to help you and that once you start to receive their help, you will be less anxious or embarassed. Remember that there are hundreds of thousands of people in the same position as yourself, so you are not alone.

 

Backdating of any benefits is usually very difficult and you would need to provide full financial details, as well as doctors notes. The more information that you provide, the more chance of backdating being successful.

 

Going forward. Be honest with your GP. It may be that depression is now more of any issue that the arm injury you suffered from and therefore this will be the main issue that you will need to enter details about on the ESA50. You can also include details of the arm injury on the form, as there will be questions that will relate to how any injuries affect you.

 

As you have been signed off by a GP, you will get the ESA at the standard assessment rate from the date you applied for ESA and then within 13 weeks you should be asked to attend the ATOS assessment. It may take longer than 13 weeks for ATOS to arrange the assessment and if you are better before then, you just phone the ESA people to stop that, then make a claim for JSA if required. The points allocated to your medical issues are not applied until you have had the ATOS assessment.

 

As you made the ESA claim about the arm injury, once your GP has diagnosed depression, you should phone the ESA claim number so they can update the system records. Then when they get the ESA50 back, it will make sense to them.

[Merker]

Thanks for the replys both, yea I guess you do only see the bad storys and not where people had success.

 

I think the backdating shouldnt be too hard in proving it. Theres of course operation reports, delay notes, the fact I left my job in August, then that my dr's notes were only faxed to my GP at the end of December after putting in a complaint to PALS.

 

I do agree that depression/anxiety is more of an issue now than my arm was. I do have dr's tomorrow so I would hope they can sign me off for depression. The thing im worried about is I went to dr's about depression numerous times before but each time they said its nothing but a bit of stress. I guess thats because of my anxiety making me want to avoid direct situations so rather than explain everything I would want to get out of the surgery as quickly as possible. Now I have realised how bad it is i'm hoping I will have the guts to tell them

[Merker]

unclebulgaria:

 

Could I just attach a letter to the ESA50 form explaining its also for depression? since I really hate using the phone at the best of time due to anxiety

Edited January 7, 2013 by Merker

[fightingback99]

Appreciate how difficult you are finding speaking to your doctor. but you really need to explain to him honestly how you really hurt your arm. Only then will your doctor appreciate and understand the level of your depression and get you the helpand support you need just now.

[Merker]

thanks fb99, yea that is on my agenda. I know I had been going through depression in the past but not as bad. I just assumed at that point that rather than bother doctors (and have to go through anxiety and a sleepless night before going) only for them to say i'm not depressed and its "stress" I hoped it would get better.

 

Then with injuring my arm I was too ashamed to admit I did it to myself. I only wanted my claim to be for the arm whilst I was recovering but depression got worse of course and im feeling its more of a problem.

 

Can someone explain this.

 

So my injury happened at the start of September.

With mistakes at hosp etc I finally put claim in at the start of December (before the 3 months backdated time had gone)

The ESA50 form came right away and it said it needs to be in by 14th Jan.

GP received my correct dr's notes at end of December (Been trying to book appointment but with xmas the surgery has been closed or too busy and you cant book in advance).

 

Appointment with GP will be booked in morning... thats where I will explain all. The problem I am worried about now is will the GP even issue me a sicknote backdated for 3 months when I didnt see them in that time? The hospital treating me was out of town, because I was given someone else's notes and not my own to hand into my GP. I assumed my GP had no idea about my arm or operation. I then put a complaint in with PALS who always ignored my requests to see what dr's saw me at that hospital and if they can give me a sicknote. Instead all I got in December was an email saying my correct notes had been faxed to my GP so I could see my GP about getting a sick note and claiming ESA.

 

Also if they decided I was going through depression (given the evidence they cant really doubt it) and they sign me off backdated from the start of September. Would the ESA people pay me ESA at £71 a week right up until they get my ESA50 form? Since the date from injury until the 14th exceeds 13 weeks (more like 17 weeks)

Edited January 7, 2013 by Merker

[id6052]

Based upon the information you have supplied, i doubt your claim would be backdated to september.

 

It is more likely that any award would be from early december.

[Merker]

saw gp today who signed me off with severe depression and tendon injury of course.

 

i dont see how they can only backdate pay to december? my injury from september meant i had til december recovering n the fact i did it to myself means i was ill with severe depression at the time.n its been ongoing.

 

even dr said im nowhere near fit to work n wont be for at least 3 months (after taking meds and finally having counciling to finish treatment)

 

can esa people really over rule a dr when i have a note to cover that time?

[Nystagmite]

You would have to have a good reason for not claiming back in September.

[id6052]

Benefit is normally only awarded from when you make a claim.

 

To obtain benefit from an earlier date, you would need to demonstrate that you had continuous good cause for delay in claiming.

 

It can be difficult to get backdated benefit, and I am concerned that you seem to think backdating is a foregone conclusion.

[unclebulgaria67]

unclebulgaria:

 

Could I just attach a letter to the ESA50 form explaining its also for depression? since I really hate using the phone at the best of time due to anxiety

 

I think you will need to summon up the courage to phone the Job Centre Plus (JCP) ESA helpline, as I am not sure the ESA50 form goes back to the DWP, but goes directly to ATOS. If it is sent to ATOS, then you need to let JCP/DWP know about the depression, so they can update the records. You could send the GP's sick note to JCP with a covering letter.

 

Re backdating the benefit to Sept, unfortunately I agree with the others. DWP don't like backdating.

[Merker]

thanks mate.... so they wont like it even since i put in claim before 3 months max backdating time was up?

 

harsh on them if they dont as its depression now but september was both arm and depression n they already sent letters saying i was entitled to 71 a week backdated

[unclebulgaria67]

thanks mate.... so they wont like it even since i put in claim before 3 months max backdating time was up?

 

harsh on them if they dont as its depression now but september was both arm and depression n they already sent letters saying i was entitled to 71 a week backdated

 

If you have already had confirmation from a JCP decision maker about the backdating then you should be ok. If it was just a general letter and did not actually confirm backdated payment, then you will have to see what they actually do.

[Merker]

thanks, yea it did...

 

saying I was entitled to 71 a week since that date in september and need to just hand in sicknotes backdating to that date.

 

I did have esa50 as I mention but im using the few brain cells I have gained and not sending it in til last minute, they want it by 14th so if I sent on 10th it maximises payments? As I will fail the assessment and ESA 50 form...

 

then am I right to appeal... claim £71 a week for a few months, then send a fit note before appeal tribunal date?

 

 

GP was amazing, even said the ESA50 form is a trap and nothing but robbing money off people that need it, they said I should put my worst day down like its every day

[Nystagmite]

appeal what?

[unclebulgaria67]

thanks, yea it did...

 

saying I was entitled to 71 a week since that date in september and need to just hand in sicknotes backdating to that date.

 

I did have esa50 as I mention but im using the few brain cells I have gained and not sending it in til last minute, they want it by 14th so if I sent on 10th it maximises payments? As I will fail the assessment and ESA 50 form...

 

then am I right to appeal... claim £71 a week for a few months, then send a fit note before appeal tribunal date?

 

 

GP was amazing, even said the ESA50 form is a trap and nothing but robbing money off people that need it, they said I should put my worst day down like its every day

 

If you have severe depression you will be receiving some form of treatment for at least 6 months anyway and will be signed off for longer by your GP. In that time you will be asked to attend the ATOS assessment and it will depend on the assessment as to what happens. I would guess that many people with depression receive the necessary points to continue on ESA and they don't all fail. If you failed, then yes there is an appeals process during which you will receive the £71 assessment rate.

 

Try not to think too far ahead. Concentrate on getting better with the help of your GP. Complete the ESA50 within the time allowed and be totally honest. From what I read, some people wait over 6 months to have an ATOS assessment and I am sure someone else on CAG said they have not had an assessment in 2 years.

[Merker]

Appeal what?????

 

The fact that I am unfit to work as declared by my GP.

 

I havent had any treatment because I simply havent been to my GP. My treatment for arm injury was with out of town hospital and I hate dr's at best of times with the anxiety so didnt go, even today dr said I seemed too fidgity etc.

 

Thanks though uncleB.

 

Yea your right. id actually love to feel and be better now to work, miss being out working

[unclebulgaria67]

saw gp today who signed me off with severe depression and tendon injury of course.

 

i dont see how they can only backdate pay to december? my injury from september meant i had til december recovering n the fact i did it to myself means i was ill with severe depression at the time.n its been ongoing.

 

even dr said im nowhere near fit to work n wont be for at least 3 months (after taking meds and finally having counciling to finish treatment)

 

can esa people really over rule a dr when i have a note to cover that time?

 

Confused. Have you seen GP, as your above earlier post suggests or not ? If you saw another doctor, then see if you can see them again. The ESA50 form I presume would ask you for details of the doctor you saw and what treatment if any they have prescribed.

[Merker]

Nooooo.... I did mention it before in another thread. I saw no GP prior to today.... In short:

 

September arm injury happened

I was rushed to my local A + E (Told I needed operation in hospital outta town)

Hosp outta town ignored diagnosis n put it down to something minor, delayed twice and each time saw different dr who didnt even say their name.

Finally operated on 3rd visit (was put to sleep so didnt know names of people that operated). They realised it wasnt minor and people at my A + E were correct.

When leaving the out of town hosp after OP I was given another patients notes to hand to my GP instead of my own

Put in complaint to get my correct notes to hand to my GP (I assumed since they gave me physical notes, my GP didnt have them on record since I was dealt with out of town)

*1)After months of emails, delays by them and still no correct notes, it was start of December and I knew I had to put claim in without sicknote so it wouldnt exceed the max 3 month backdate time

I get letters saying my claim is good to go at £71 a week as long as I get sicknotes handed in as soon as I get them.

20th December, PALS email to say my correct DR's notes had finally been faxed to my GP

Realised the state of my condition. That it was depression as well as my self inflicted arm injury

Finally saw my GP today, who didnt hesitate in signing me off backdated as they even said my correct notes had only arrived to them on 20th December due to hosp mistakes.

 

The ESA50 form says nothing about my GP, just of course how bad my condition is like with walking, "picking up a £1 coin" etc.

 

 

*1) = Thats the point I phoned the ESA people to put in a claim and I gave DR's names, and all other info etc

[unclebulgaria67]

Well your post on this thread at today 12.37 is wrong and should be corrected. It says " saw gp today who signed me off with severe depression and tendon injury of course". edit. I see that it was diagnosed in December, but you were not given the sick notes until today.

 

On the ESA50 form I think you have to complete accurate details of the injuries and illnesses you are suffering from. If a doctor has diagnosed depression then ATOS will want to know what treatment a doctor has recommended. I believe the form also asks what doctor you are seeing about this. Depression is a very serious illness and is often treated with medication, sometimes complimented by seeing a psychiatrist. I can't see that a doctor would diagnose serious depression without you being put on medication. Anyway this is a private matter, for which you will need to see the doctor.

[Nystagmite]

Appeal what?????

 

The fact that I am unfit to work as declared by my GP.

 

But you've not had an assessment yet. Therefore, there's nothing to appeal.

[Merker]

It says " saw gp today who signed me off with severe depression and tendon injury of course". edit. I see that it was diagnosed in December, but you were not given the sick notes until today.

 

On the ESA50 form I think you have to complete accurate details of the injuries and illnesses you are suffering from. If a doctor has diagnosed depression then ATOS will want to know what treatment a doctor has recommended. I believe the form also asks what doctor you are seeing about this. Depression is a very serious illness and is often treated with medication, sometimes complimented by seeing a psychiatrist. I can't see that a doctor would diagnose serious depression without you being put on medication. Anyway this is a private matter, for which you will need to see the doctor.

 

Well it wasnt diagnosed until today (my depression anyway)

 

When I put in the claim for ESA in December for my Tendon injury that happened at the start of September it was purely for that injury. Until the last week I decided to battle through depression on my own as I don't like meds and believed they would refuse to say im depressed and put it down to stress like they did the last time I went.

 

Recently though I realised how bad the depression had become and also how it would help my claim when it comes to assessments (if that happens). I have been diagnosed as depressed today and given medication for it.

 

Nystagmite - I know but im certain that if an assessment was done I would without a doubt fail it so would appeal when that time comes

[citizenB]

Merker, you have other threads that deal with the same issue as in this thread.. can you please post some links in THIS thread in order that people can follow the story without having to go search or ask questions that have been answered on another thread

 

Thanks

[Merker]

Merker, you have other threads that deal with the same issue as in this thread.. can you please post some links in THIS thread in order that people can follow the story without having to go search or ask questions that have been answered on another thread

 

Thanks

 

I could do, I just thought a new thread would be easier... whilst they are similar things... 1 relating to the incident was about legal action concerning the NHS.

 

The other was referring a bit to the legal action thing but mostly was about putting in a claim for ESA.

 

This 1's about ESA claim process, not relating to legal action or if I was entitled to claim ESA after Hospital screw ups since I followed advice in other thread and put in claim to get the ball rolling before getting my dr's notes.

 

They were all separate issues but if I linked them into 1 thread nobody would read or reply to them as my post would be pages long