Vanquis - Disputing charges due to fraudulent activity on account.

[Spurs4ever]

My dad has a problem with this company.

 

He applied for a credit card early August 2012 and received it with a £500 limit mid August 2012.

He used approximately £76 in three days before he went to use it on the fourth day and it was declined.

 

After calling Vanquis he was told that he was over the £500 limit, £540 in fact.

They asked him a few questions and the phone operator confirmed that the card had been used fraudulently.

He was asked to get a crime number and to fill out a declaration of fraud form, which they would send him.

 

After a few days he received the form, filled it in, sent photocopies of the receipts he had received for the purchase he made

and included a copy of the crime number he had got from the police a few days before.

 

Mid September the statement came in, sure enough the balance showed £540.

On top of that was over limit charges and a late payment charge.

 

Up until this point he was bombarded with calls from the call centre asking for payment to bring the balance down.

He told them that he was disputing the balance and that the fraud department were dealing with it

and that when it was sorted out and was showing an amended amount on his statement he would make a payment.

The phone calls continued.

 

Octobers statement came through with an additional £64 in charges, the balance now standing at £604 and no news of the fraud investigation.

 

Early November he gets a phone call from someone in the fraud department stating that they were off i'll,

they were the only person who could deal with the fraud declarations etc etc and that he would look at the problem straight away.

 

A few weeks later a letter arrives stating that they have taken off £430 odd from the balance due to the fraudulent activity,

and the balance is now £180.

 

He gives his name and extension number on a call to my dad and he seems a pleasant chap, apologising all the time for the problems etc.

 

So from an original £76 in purchases, due to the fact that it took them over 10 weeks to deal with the fraud declaration,

the charges have amounted to £104 including £64 of charges from September to October when he had up until that point only spent £76 on the card!

 

They keep hassling him, he keeps telling them that the account is still being disputed and that he wont pay until it has been rectified.

He has stood on this stance up until this very day and has to date paid nothing as the balance is still in dispute.

 

A letter dated 25th December 2012 (nice!) shows the balance up to £212.91, a further £40 increase, and this time from Impact Collection Services, the in-house DCA.

 

Today he tells me about the whole sorry story.

 

I have drafted a letter to the guy who dealt with the fraud claim, stating that my dad is not accepting the now £140 in charges

mainly made up due to the amount of time it took them to deal with the fraud declaration.

 

In the letter I mention the fact that if the fraud investigation was made earlier then there would only be the £76 plus normal charges to pay,

not the over limit fees etc that were accrued due to the unauthorised use.

I also offered them £110 in full and final payment and that acceptance would also close the account.

 

My question is so I send this letter or should I do something else?

Is it worth talking to the guy who dealt with the fraud declaration?

He's not a call centre numpty so it might actually prove fruitful?

 

I cant see why he should have to pay any more than the £76 plus charges

when the extra amounts spent on the card and charged to the account are not his fault,

although I am sure they would argue that fact!

 

Any help will be gratefully appreciated.

 

Regards

Spurs4ever

[caro]

Why £110 if he only spent £76?

[Spurs4ever]

Why £110 if he only spent £76?

 

The £76 is without whatever the normal charges would be for that amount if it was the only use on the card for the month.

 

I have not sent this letter yet, but I am 100% convinced that it is going to be a nightmare.

The idea was to offer a one time figure that would make them a few quid and save my old man a shed load of grief in the long run.

 

I am wondering where he stands on not paying anything since he got the card until now due to the disputed charges etc.

Effectively he owes them 12 x 4 = £48 in late payment charges,

so £110 is actually less than he should be paying if it was just the original £76 plus late payment charges up until now.

 

I cannot for one second believe that they will just charge him the £76 plus one months charges,

even though this has nothing to do with my old man or his use of the card.

 

The question remains, what should he do?

 

Call the fraud guy and explain it to him, or write a load of letters?

 

Again, thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

he is NOT responsible for their PENALTY charges however they are caused.

 

pop them into one of our spreadsheets and reclaim them.

 

you need also to be getting his CRA file.

 

if they have trashed that, he should be seeking compensation too

 

prob wipe the bal out, and cost him nothing...the card will be cleared.

 

dx

[Spurs4ever]

Thanks DX

 

CRA is being dealt with.

 

Not sure how I am going to fill out this spreadsheet though. I have downloaded the CISheet v101, is this correct?

 

Do I simply work out what charges have been applied over the original £76 usage and then claim those back?

 

Is there a letter that goes with the spreadsheet?

 

Regards

Spurs4ever

[dx100uk]

yep all correct

 

there is a card card charges letter in the library

 

adapt/use that

[Spurs4ever]

Thanks again, will keep you informed of the outcome

 

Regards

Spurs4ever

[assisted blonde]

He should have paid the money he owed which was the 76.00 while the rest was being disputed, to go to 110 from 76 is probably the interest charges and the charges for non payment, agree he shouldnt have paid the disputed amount but he should have paid something

[Spurs4ever]

He should have paid the money he owed which was the 76.00 while the rest was being disputed, to go to 110 from 76 is probably the interest charges and the charges for non payment, agree he shouldnt have paid the disputed amount but he should have paid something

 

That was my way of thinking.

 

The fact is that on £76 of use they want tp now charge him £212, and the fraud investigation did not remove the entire amount charged to the account as they had put £64 in charges at a time when the investigation was ongoing. Effectively they removed the unauthorised use moneys but did not take away £64 in charges accrued because of that unauthorised use.

 

If the whole sorry story had been dealt with more quickly then there would be no problem, but dragging their heels has meant that additional charges have been put onto the account which have nothing to do with the legitimate use of the card.

 

Additionally, if he had paid off the £76 he had used, could this not have be deemed as acceptance of liability for the full amount?

 

As a sub question, should he now pay the £76 now and then with hold any more payments whilst he is disputing the rest of the balance?

 

Regards

Spurs4ever

[assisted blonde]

I feel that the op is liable for the 76.00 and associated interest and non payment fees, and that he may as well pay that and then all the other charges should be cleared off the account when the fraud investigation has cleared him of any involvment. At the end of the day he did owe the 76.00 and didnt make any attempt to pay it so he should be charged for it, I had a similar situation and once fraud had investigated I got the money refunded to my account and the charges were taken off, but I did pay what i owed in the meantime.

I dont see that paying off the 76 is any admission of liability for the rest of the debt as he had already reported the other amounts as fraudulent.

I know people like to knock vanquis in general but they are no better or worse than any other cc company except for the high interest charges.

[Spurs4ever]

I feel that the op is liable for the 76.00 and associated interest and non payment fees,

 

Totally agree, that is not being disputed here though.

 

and that he may as well pay that and then all the other charges should be cleared off the account when the fraud investigation has cleared him of any involvment.

 

They did clear him of involvement. The investigation concluded in November 2012. They refunded £450 to the balance in September of £540. This left a balance of around £90 to pay which would have been fine if they had not, in October and before the decision was made by the fraud department, put another £64 in charges relating to the fact that the card was over its limit and no payment had been made. This is what is in dispute. The late payment charge aside, the rest of it was in direct relation to the unauthorised use, and therefore should have been removed, but they weren't.

 

At the end of the day he did owe the 76.00 and didnt make any attempt to pay it so he should be charged for it,

 

Again totally agree, and the £90 or so would be what he would be looking at paying (plus whatever charges are due for non payment (£48) up until this point). However that still leaves £80 in fees due to the mess Vanquis made between the fraud declaration going in and them actually actioning it. The account had charges put onto it that were in relation to the unauthorised use, but those charges were not taken off.

 

I dont see that paying off the 76 is any admission of liability for the rest of the debt as he had already reported the other amounts as fraudulent.

 

So you are saying pay the £76 now then put the account into dispute so that the real charges can be worked out?

 

Regards

Spurs4ever

[assisted blonde]

Pay the 76.00 + interest on the 76 but dispute the fraudulent amount and charges relating to the fraud. does that make sense? i think it will be simpler to dispute the charges that they have added (to my mind unlawfully) once all that you are legally liable for has been paid.

[Spurs4ever]

Pay the 76.00 + interest on the 76 but dispute the fraudulent amount and charges relating to the fraud. does that make sense? i think it will be simpler to dispute the charges that they have added (to my mind unlawfully) once all that you are legally liable for has been paid.

 

Yep makes sense, paying the money actually used on the card is easy (as we have the receipts) however the interest charges are not as easy to work out due to the fact that they are the sum of several products (interest, cash advance fee and interest on that, some kind of payment protection he had on there etc.)

 

Any ideas?

 

Regards

Spurs4ever

[assisted blonde]

sorry now I am stuck maths interest charges are not my strongest subject,

 

the cash advance fee will be on your paperwork somewhere as will the purchase interst fee,

i would cancel the payment protection (dont think it is called that but you know what i mean ) asap,

 

prehaps pay the 90.00 odd pounds that was asked for before they added the other fee?

and the charges for non payment.

But def pay before any more non payment charges are added.

[Spurs4ever]

prehaps pay the 90.00 odd pounds that was asked for before they added the other fee?

 

It was never asked for, it is the difference between the Septembers statement of £540 and the sum of the amount removed after the fraud investigation concluded (£450).

 

If nothing else had happened then the October statement would have read a balance owing of £90 (which is what was expected). However the £450 was not returned to the account until mid November so additional charges were added in October to the tune of £64 on the previous balance of £540.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

There has never been a correct owing balance provided, ever, and it seems as if their computer has been a victim of its own problems.

 

I am looking at the correct balance being...

 

The money used on the card - £76

Interest and charges for this amount £??

Late payment fees for September, October, November and December (4 x £48)

Interest on the late payment fees £??

 

I make that £150 at the very most. They are asking for £212. £60 more than it should be.

 

How can we get Vanquis to actually see it from this point of view and therefore rectify the account so it can be paid off?

 

Or should the money used (£76) be paid with a cheque clearly stating that it is to be used for clearing off the money used and cashing it will be in acceptance of this, whilst sending another letter disputing the interest and other charges?

 

At least that way the money used can be cleared and then its just their charges that are in dispute.

 

Regards

Spurs4ever

[dx100uk]

Yep makes sense, paying the money actually used on the card is easy (as we have the receipts) however the interest charges are not as easy to work out due to the fact that they are the sum of several products (interest, cash advance fee and interest on that, some kind of payment protection he had on there etc.)

 

Any ideas?

 

Regards

Spurs4ever

 

 

 

sorry you say there is PPI involved here

 

then get reclaiming that too

 

prob wipe the debt out!!

 

dx

[Spurs4ever]

Sorry, no PPI, its CPP, some identity theft alert protection.

 

Fat lot of good it did in this instance!

[dx100uk]

what!!

were they informed?

 

you can still reclaim it

 

they have been told to cough up too

 

see the last but one cag newsletter top left on the toolbar

 

dx

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?356-CPP-Group-Plc

[Spurs4ever]

Can only see the december one and nothing much in there regarding CPP

[dx100uk]

post 19

 

dx

[Spurs4ever]

the bbc report?

[dx100uk]

first thread below the stickies

 

dx