First Plus loan via loans.co.uk

[dkintheuk]

Hi everyone,

 

So in October 2003 I obtain a loan from First Plus. I used loans.co.uk as a broker and applied - they suggested First Plus as my best option and I obtained a loan for £42,000 over 10 years to consolidate a massive pile of smaller short term loans that were crippling me. (Yeah I know I should have done different things now but here we are, bear with the story if you can).

 

At the time they mentioned PPI to me. I told them I havd critical illness cover and income protection cover but they said at the time that I would probabyl get the best chance of a good rate if I opted for the PPI.

 

I said ok. I received the papers and signed up, though at the time I never even noticed that when the papers came through, they had a pre-ticked box telling me that I had selected PPI. I mention this as it was not drawn to my attention and un-ticking a printed box is quite hard to do anyway...

 

That is besides the point, at the time I did't notice and just got on with it. It added over £14,700 to my loan and was cover for 5 years at the end of which I would receive a lump sum of the whole amount back less a small admin fee. The only way I would not get the money was if I was in arrears or so I thought.

 

 

About 40 or 45 days later I called First Plus and asked them about cancellation of the PPI as it seemed like a lot of money and I really wanted to keep my payments as low as possible. I was told I would only get about £300 and the amount would remain part of my debt. So I declined to end it and thought, "look forward to getting the cheque back".

 

Swing forward to October 2008. My 5 years is up. I can claim for the refund. So I do and get rejected. Even to this day I still do not have a full reason given to me why I was rejected though I suspect it is because I was late paying a couple of times, even though I was fully up to date at the point at which I claimed

 

So now as you can imagine, i'm quite upset and complain to First Plus and get told to go to loans.co.uk, I go to loans.co.uk and now get told that I agreed to all this and I should go away.

 

I write to the FOS and send everything off, they send it back because I haven't had a 'final' answer from loans.co.uk or First Plus.

 

I then chase for a final answer and resubmit to the FOS who say they never received my papers so I send it all again.

 

During this time they state they have no jurisdiction over the case because of when it was sold to me and that they will try to establish if the insurer is worth pursuing.

 

This is the first point at which I find that I had an agreement with a thrid party insurer. I only ever signed an agreement with loans.co.uk and First Plus.

 

Finally the FOS start to look at it and time goes by... bascially, they have just (last month) contacted me to say that they cannot uphold any complaint against anyone.

 

I have asked for a review of matters with the FOS and for the case to go to an Ombudsman (quite why it hadn't already is beyond me).

 

The bottom line is that I was sold insurance I plainly didn't need, that was front loaded to the loan, that was for only part of the term of the loan and that after re-reading the terms of the PPI, it would not have paid out anyway for any circumstance that could have befallen me. It was basically, no insurance at all and did not provide a cover appropriate to my needs. Secondary to this is that I was lied to upfront about why I needed the PPI (to get the best lender's rate). Finally, I had no idea I had made an arrangement with another party (the insurers) and if I had known I would have approached them myself for mroe information about rejection etc. Basically loans.co.uk and First Plus have played a blinder in deceiving me about everything and the FOS say there is nothing at all that can be done.

 

Since I was rejected, I had a couple of more months where it was difficult to pay so I asked if they could extend the term and they have do but the whole debt has been re-factored and now it looks like if I pay the full amount, I will end up paying back something over £260,000 to have borrowed £42,000.

 

I've calculated that even at the higest interest rate, if you take off the amount of overpayment made by paying each month for PPI, I've already repaid the loan. The rate just keeps going up and up and it's now at 15.9% (actually i'm sure it just went up again).

 

What else can I do? Who else can help? In the time between the first sending of information to the FOS and now I have lost my copy of the loan agreement - it's probably me that's in the wrong there. But First Plus were unable to provide the FOS with any paperwork showing I had signed up to a loan.

 

I'm about to send First Plus a subject access request to get all records from them. Hopefully this will help me sort out what atual agreement I have with them.

 

I've followed what was apaprently good advice to manage my finances better but i've been left high and dry.

 

Does anyone have any advice? I shall now be spending the rest of the weekend reading this forum to find out anything else I might need to know.

 

Thanks for reading this far. If you have further advice then let me know. I woudl love to hear from others who have delat with First Plus and can give me any inside track.

 

Rob.

[rebel11]

Hi dk

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advice as soon as they are available.

[dkintheuk]

@rebel11 - thanks for the quick update. Just to clarify I previously used a template letter similar to those I can find linked to in the footer of your post that i'll add to this thread soon (with details redacted).

 

Looking at the list at link number 2 in your footer, I think that points 2, 3, 4, 7 (well in so much as the best rate would follow...), 8, 9, 10, 13 all apply. Point 9, on being pressued, was shown by them pre-ticking a box on a form and not drawing my attention to it for me to make a proper judgement on ghte need for PPI.

 

Hope this extra info is useful.

 

Rob.

[dirkuberpower]

Unfortunetley at that time Loans.co.uk were not under FOS jurisdiction. Taking it to court yourself is your only option.

[dkintheuk]

I give up... really?

 

So the FSA can't enforce on these guys?

 

The FSA said contact the FOS, the FOS said, we never covered this.

 

It's utterly depressing and leaves me truly shocked.

 

I can't afford a lawyer; I'm broke because I'm being ripped off.

 

Can no one point me at any resource that actually is able to take these guys on? I've been thoroughly screwed and lied to and left to pay back an impossible debt because of those lies.

[dj1971]

Hi Dk,

 

Unfortunately dirk is right. The only option left open to you now is court.

 

I acknowledge you have requested the FOS refer your case to an ombudsman, but as has already been stated this is out of their jurisdiction and will only cause you a further wait for no return.

 

However there is some good news for the court route. You do not actually need a solicitor to take this to court. Many have gone it alone without a solicitor and been successful.

 

I suggest you press forward with the SAR and once you get all the information back post it up, removing all personal information of course and we will help you calculate what you could be due.

 

There is plenty of help available from other caggers on the forum who have been in the same position as you. But for now, just concentrate on getting the SAR sent and wait for the information to come back.

 

Good luck

 

DJ

[dkintheuk]

Ok. Thanks for that I'll get the SAR off right now and see what happens.

 

Soon as I have some data I'll get back to this forum and let you know what I find.

 

How long do they have to respond to the request?

 

Also, should I apply for an SAR to First Plus, loans.co.uk, the insurer (if I can find out who they are) or all of them?

 

Cheers,

 

DK.

[dx100uk]

no agreement held its been lost........

 

urm........prove to me mr judge why i should be paying this at all?

 

it really puzzles me why the fos turn around and say 'outside of our timelimit - 2003' we didn't exist

 

i've had as well as many other member loans going back to 1986, with the agreement, refunded through them.

 

pers if you can calc that you have paid what you should have done, if the ppi were not taken out

i'd let it go to court and get the judge to decide on this 'get out clause' the industry and it's watchdog keep using whereby it's obvious the punter got fleeced.

already ticked box, told get a better deal, oh its a shame we've lost the paperwork.........tough luck you're one of our 1000's of cash cows that pay secret commission for our retirement, pension and holiday.

 

dx

[dj1971]

Dk,

 

They have 40 days from the day after you send the SAR to provide everything they have.

 

Your loan agreement is with Firstplus, therefore it is Firstplus you should send the SAR to and address it to the data controller at their registered office.

 

Good luck

 

DJ

[dkintheuk]

Hi all,

 

Firstly I've just started reading this site in earnest after a significant setback in my attempted claim of PPI.

 

I took out a loan in 2003 with First Plus using loans.co.uk for £54,000 that was for 10 years. I agreed to have PPI as it was indicated (not in writing) that if I didn't take it then I would be less likely to have loan approval. I did notice that at the time the documentation stated otherwise and said their decision was not based on taking it out but I was persuaded by loans.co.uk to take it out.

 

It was a single premium of well over £13,000 and covered me for the first 5 years of my loan. It then would repay me the full amount of the premium back at the end of that 5-year period.

 

During the 5-year period, after about 13 months, I asked them to cancel the PPI as I finally found out all the details about it but they refused to refund it and any interest. They instead offered me a couple of hundred pounds back instead. I decided to wait for the pay out instead even though I had found out that I would never be able to claim on the policy as I was full-time employed AND self employed. I also had critical illness cover and additional income protection cover when I took out the loan but when I told them all these things, loans.co.uk just told me that it was still advisable to have the First Plus PPI.

 

Roll forward to 2008 and time to receive a payment. I put the relevant claim form in only to be told that I was not eligible as I had a late payment during the previous period.

 

I then immediately went to the FOS to ask for help in claiming that the PPI was mis-sold and that I had been denied a premium repayment that was promised.

 

So late last year, 4 years after my initial claim, I have been told by the FOS that my claim was unsuccessful. I am dumb-struck but it seems that they just don't cover such things. In fact my loan was not regulated under the FSA code by under the MCCB.

 

I was only told this in the final letter and during the 4-years till then believed that my claim was under the FSA code and I wrote all my letters with that in mind and used phrases from this website and others relating to such matters.

 

Obviously I formally rejected their findings.

 

So I wrote to my MP, Alok Sharma, to ask for assistance and he kindly wrote the chief ombudsman who wrote back to say that she would never overturn another ombudsman's decision.

 

My question is, where do I go from here?

 

My loan is at a stupidly high interest rate even from the outset, so after 3 years in 2006, I asked them to extend the term to 20 years as the payments were getting too high.

 

I'm certain that I clearly been misled and I am stunned the FOS won't help. In fact the FOS is really not able to provide any help or guidance but just looks at whatever you present and makes what seem to be decisions based on only part of the details that are provided to them. Their final decision missed several key points and seemed to rely only on my initial letter which was added to later.

 

Simply put I could never have claimed on the PPI that was sold to me. I was lied to that I would have had a better chance of being given the loan if I took it out and I have missed out on a financial windfall promised at the start because of a rule that I was not made aware of. Admittedly I was told that my account had to be up to date but I assumed that meant, no arrears not that I couldn't even be late on a payment or ask for a payment holiday.

 

Can anyone begin to guide me back to something approaching sense? I already have the results of a SAR from First Plus but not from loans.co.uk. In fact loans.co.uk could not find any records of my phone calls when contacted by the ombudsman and they seemed to forget that they even sent someone to visit me to witness signatures who also encouraged me to not remove the PPI option from the paperwork.

 

Sorry if I've not read everything on this site yet, it is huge so if I find answers as I read I will post back, but I expect that I will still need guidance.

 

Thank you so much for even being here to talk to.

 

Rob.

[ims21]

Who did you approach for the mis-selling claim, First Plus or Loans.co.uk?

[dkintheuk]

Initially I wrote to both and they both wrote back to tell me no.

 

I then wrote to the FOS to begin a claim against First Plus. They told me I could not as First Plus did not sell the loan. So I then reapplied and complained about the selling of the loan by loans.co.uk. That is what was rejected by the FOS.

[rennuz]

Why specifically did the FOS reject your claim, have they just said they don't cover PPI, or this type of loan?

 

On the face of it this type of PPI sale is the reason there has been all these claims of late so there must be a good reason for this rejection.

 

Have you spoken with a reputable PPI claims company (if they exist) to get their professional opinion and if so what have they said?

[dx100uk]

the loan was taken out before the FOS came about it was 2003.

 

i have merged the old thread with this new one.

[dx100uk]

for your info

 

we have had at least two successful claims out of loans.co.uk.

 

dx

[ims21]

OK, first off steer well clear of any claims company. They cannot do anything for you that you cannot do for yourself.

 

Would be interesting to know the reasons why fos sided with the broker.

 

I fear that as you have exhausted the fos route your only option would be to go the court route. However, as your claim will be over the current £5k limit for small claims then there is a potential costs issue to consider should you lose any court case.

 

The small claims limit is being raised in the spring so I understand and it may be that you could wait until then should you decide that court is for you. But do think carefully about this as there are no guarantees.

 

It also has to be said that since fos have decided against you, a judge will have that in mind as well so it may present another hurdle that you may have to overcome as well as the initial claim of mis-selling.

[dkintheuk]

First, thanks for finding my old thread... I never even thought of re-raising it.

 

The reasons given were that they could only consider one part of my claim. That I had been forced to take the PPI. Well I hadn't, of course I hadn't, I had been misled into believing it was the only option available to me to enable suitable cover and was needed in excess of the other cover I already had.

 

Obviously offering me a policy that I could never have claimed on was rather important. Also, not covering the entire term of the loan was an issue I raised beforehand but was told this was totally normal.

 

Some of this was face to face with the person who came to witness our signatures. Basically the final note said that our word against theirs was no defence and the forms show that we chose to have PPI. We only did based on what was said to us and the choice was even brushed under, the initial form we signed had arrived with the option for PPI already ticked and our attention was not drawn to it further.

 

About a month afterwards I rang them and asked whether the PPI was appropriate. They said yes, don't worry. I then rang after about 13 months and said that I wanted a refund of the portion of the PPI covering after that time (expecting to get about 4 fifths) and was told I would only get a couple of hundred pounds.

 

So that's when I waited... foolishly it seems.

[rennuz]

So to confirm they were not interested in that you couldn't claim on the policy. That made no basis for the claim?

 

I don't suppose you have legal cover on your home insurance?

 

This has been going on for 2yrs and there hasn't been much movement. Have you been doing it yourself in that time and come up against a brick wall? Doing it all yourself can be daunting and it seems to not be progressing. I know people will shoot me down for this but getting someone on your side is what I would be trying to do whether that is sitting down with a claims company or a solicitor for an initial chat, not signing up for anything but get an opinion that helps you make a plan to go forward. Hey I use this site all the time but after 2yrs I would be wanting my hand held a little.

[dx100uk]

well it might be that long

 

but

 

the op is not exactly pushing things hard.

 

not their fault

 

and certainly no reason to WASTE money on a NWNF [EDIT]

 

dx

[dkintheuk]

Hi rennuz,

 

I can confirm that the FOS said that point was completely irrelevant and that the Mortgage Compliance Code Board applied which does not specifically have a point about the suitability of the product as I understand it. They would only consider the issue of whether I was 'forced' to have the PPI. Quite plainly I was not, I was incorrectly advised to take it and that is kind of the point. The FOS seems to want this case gone and have succeeded in putting it in terms that make it simply my word against that of loans.co.uk and not even wonder why loans.co.uk can't mysteriously find any details of phone calls. Also the person who sat with me at home to finalise things is never going to be found... it is simply painful.

 

In fact it is now 4 years since I first raised this to the FOS. They have dodged and avoided handling this when they could have explained things far better, much earlier. I would love to have someone on my side and will visit a local solicitor for a free chat about matters to see if they would even be interested in taking it on and my chance of success.

 

I just really don't understand that given that the PPI was completely inappropriate for me and that I could never have claimed and that the refund promise was negated through further misleading, why it is not considered to be a mis-sell. I just don't understand.

 

Worse is that loans.co.uk acting as the agent have effectively muddied everything so going after them for a loan taken with someone else now seems insane. I'm just so peed off with it all.

[rennuz]

I own an IFA practice and the stories I hear about FOS really makes our own planning for compliance almost impossible there is no logic for their decisions half the time and its simply an unqualified advisers thoughts and they have the final say. All we can do is make sure we do our best for the client.

 

Back to your scenario one of the reasons I mention speaking to someone is because of the experience they will have. You want to find a case similar to yours so that you can show that this ruling is simply unjust, whether you find that info in these forums or other similar forums or anywhere else.

 

Firstly the amount is about £13k how long does it take you to earn that sort of money? Therefore taking the time to deal with this should be relevant time wise. Personally I would be setting out a week or so and completely understanding it all, arrange a number of appointments with professionals who can give you a view. Don't just see one and don't spend any money. Any that are worth using will allow a free appointment, So make use of this ask the right questions and do your research and collate it all. Use that info and the info from forums to help you decide your next move.

 

You need to make a plan and make this a priority because if you haven't then surely that payment you make every month is a harsh reminder... Good luck

[dkintheuk]

Thanks for that good advice rennuz. I've pretty much got a handle on my own part of it. I have all the documentation I need, I think.

 

I will book a starting appointment with a few people and will keep looking for similar stories to mine though you do just basically say what I knew already it is nice to be reminded to stay focussed.

 

It is very depressing to hear about people with success stories that are in the same boat though.

 

What I don't understand is why this needs this amount of effort from me now considering the government have said this is awful and should be stopped and repaired. The forming of the FOS was a smokescreen to pretend that they had fixed something. The scope of that organisation is far too slim and the method they operate is inappropriate and unacceptably short of bodies to quickly asses and ADVISE. In fact they offer no advice at all. Nothing, they expect you to work it all out for yourself, present it in the correct way and then as you say make nonsensical decisions based on what seems to be a flimsy grasp of the rules or the law.

 

I hope someone else reads this and either has a shared experience or can offer further help because a case like mine with a different outcome would be a great place to start.

 

I am still reading through this site in depth now but it is huge... we'll see how we get on.

 

Feel quite deflated now...

[rennuz]

When I was doing mortgages I came across a client with a similar style loan and they had a £17k policy. I couldn't believe it when I saw it, they were with the Carol Vorderman loan people can't remember who now. Anyway I will see if I can get hold of them and see how they dealt with it all.

[dkintheuk]

Carol Vorderman was on the First Plus adverts... That is who my loan is with loans.co.uk were the broker.

[dkintheuk]

I take it from the silence that you haven't found anything...