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    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
    • nice and ofcourse totally unlawful.   £349.50 is the usual sum RLP try and fleece out of people under some silly civil threats none of goes to the store it all goes in RLP's pocket for their next staff holiday paid for by mugs that fall for their twaddle ignore!!
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zoomboy

I wanted PPI, I got PPI, but was I eligible?

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Back in 2004 I thought things were getting a bit tight and I'd not long started a new job, I remortgaged to help finance paying off some loans. But at the time got talked into PPI and I thought it was a good idea to protect my repayments.

 

But, the new job saw me join a company as a Director and so was self employed taking a moderate wage and annual dividends. So being self employed does that immediately exclude me from eligibility for PPI?

 

I also find we're still paying it! :o So I've cancelled it as I now work in local Gov't where sickness would be paid for about the period PPI would cover and a change of circumstances would require a pretty decent notice period.

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No, being Self employed then you would not have benefited from much of the protection supposedly provided by the policy :)


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5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks for the response. I was originally quite daunted by the prospect of trying to claim. But after reading for some time on here I decided "what's the worst that can happen?", I get nothing - so I don't have anything to lose by trying.

 

I went onto what I thought was the site for Lloyds, downloaded the complaint form and started filling it in when I realised I needed one for C&G. So went to C&G downloaded the form and was surprised they're the same form from FOS.

 

So now this has me thinking, all these PPI Clams Management Companies taking a big slice for doing little more than a credit search and filling out some standard forms! What a [problem]!

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Which is why we try to steer people clear of using Claims Management Companies.

 

They kind of give you the impression that your claim will jump the queue if you use them.. it wont - the Banks will still fluff around and if it ends up with the FOS anyway.. !!

 

If you read the stickies in the Payment Protection forums, you will find almost everything you need to make your own claim.

 

If you get stuck, just yell and someone will be able to help :)


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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PPI Complaint... Denied :(

 

Got the response today that the bank are rejecting my claim. So I guess the next step is the ombudsman.

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Do they say why? Or is it their usual first try bog off letter ?

 

If you want to scan it in and let us have a look you might want to try and get them to change their mind before joining the queue for the FOS !


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Do they say why? Or is it their usual first try bog off letter ?

 

If you want to scan it in and let us have a look you might want to try and get them to change their mind before joining the queue for the FOS !

 

Thanks for that I can't tell if it's a first pass standard rejection though, I'm not at all familiar with the process.

 

I have had another thought though. I believe I had a life policy with Scottish Widows which was taken out to protect the other directors, we all did. So not sure it that's relevant at all.

 

My complaint basically laid out that the bank manager and colleague turned up at my home to help me with a remortgage, but as part of that process they certainly required me to take out PPI as I would be unlikely to be successful with the mortgage application if it wasn't protected by PPI.

 

Being paid by dividend, not salary the company would have paid me in the event of sickness anyhow. But the PPI was pitched more about covering the bank for the mortgage in the event the business failed. So I really don't think PPI would have done anyone other than the bank any good anyhow.

 

I'll give them a scan in a bit.

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Hmm, well I have the policy booklet and it doesn't say anything about it being optional, neither does it say it's compulsory - it's all about making a claim, definitions and eligibility. But the letter I have with it does say:

 

If you decide you don't want this cover, please return the documents to us within 30 days, along with a note from you asking us to cancel the policy.

 

We will cancel this policy as soon as we receive this information.

So I guess that's clear, I could have cancelled the policy if I understood that it wouldn't affect my mortgage application, which I didn't.

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It sounds pretty much like a bog off letter to me.

 

I find it quite amusing when the pompous author advises that their membership of the GISC required them to act with honesty and integrity in their sales !! What did they suddenly become dishonest and lose their integrity when they became regulated by the FSA !!

 

They were lambasted for mis selling when they were members of the GISC and they continued to act without any concern for their customers when they became regulated by the FSA.

 

That is excellent you have copies of the documents they claim will back up their decision. So you can wave that in their faces.

 

I will ask those with more knowledge of this to pop in and have a read and further advise you.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi

 

Yes it looks like a standard fob off to me.

 

Haven't read the letter in full but at least one point jumps out that they admit that some exclusions would apply to you. Therefore the product as a whole was not suitable for you and therefore mis-sold.

 

In addition you should not attach any importance the cancellation clause. The FSA have said that a firm cannot rely on that as a reason for not upholding a claim.

 

Have a read of Appendix 1 of the FSA handbook here....you will find some useful information on which to base a challenge to their findings.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?305682-FSA-Handbook

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