Is there any point in trying to stop a charging order?

[duck1967]

I have been reading the messages on the charging orders.

 

I have a very similiar case against BMW Finance.

 

I was leasing the cars from them for more than 18 years because my company was paying for it

 

but when i was made redundant and because my company is US based and the car in my name, i have been made to pay the lease cost.

 

I have tried to explain the situation to BMW and offered half the payment only until I get another job

but they have refused so I had no choice but to offer them to repossess the car.

 

I asked to come and take it and they left for 6 weeks

 

then one morning, i had these 4 big skin headed guys breaking my house door down at 07:00 AM while my kids and family were still sleeping,

they terrorised all of us but my solicitor told me that there is nothing we can do.

 

The car that I bought was worth £32K with interest over 48 months £48K.

I paid £39K in 18 months when contract was terminated and was making £47 a month which was agreed by my debt management company

 

but BMW hired this expensive lawyer firm and the hearing was done in Birmingham, 2 hours away from my house.

 

I asked for it to be reinstated to the area where I live but my solicitor told me that the judge had rejected it.

 

I was late arriving to the court and I informed the court that because I have never been to the area,

i was lost and was going to be late

 

but before I managed to show up, the judge had already passed a judgement and they managed to put a debt around my neck of £26,000 on the top of the £39,000

while the car was worth only £32,000 and the loan never went the whole 48 months.

 

Apparently, it is written on the contract but as you know, because we used to change cars every three months

and we were never given a chance to read these contracts and small prints properly we did not know.

 

Now BMW has hired yet another lawyer firm and they are going for a charging order against me.

 

They want to secure the debt against my house and my solicitor is telling there is nothing we can do.

 

This guy has always been telling me this.

he always stated that there is nothing we can do,

he has always been negatif and even if I am paying him he has refused to defend me.

 

I want toask you if you can recommend a firm that I can contact someone who can defend my case.

 

I have asked for the hearing again to change to my local town and my solicitor again is telling that it will be rejected and I do not know what the reason is.

 

I want to fight the £26K and the judge decision because I was never given given a chance to present my proof and was never allowed to defend myself.

 

i also want to stop this charging order.

 

This debt is not legal in my mind because they are claiming money for a service that they never rendered.

 

The full interest is suppose to be for a loan of 48 months but since it lasted only 18 months then they should only get interest for that period.

 

I thought this will be the case because in the past when we change the car before the three year period, the extra interest was refunded.

 

I understand that the case is different now because we defaulted on the loan but we have no choice, i was made redundant and am not capable of paying.

I am working as a consultant to keep away from doll queues and to keep a roof over my family head until I manage to get a new job

 

meanwhile BMW wants to make this unsecure debt a secure one on my property.

 

I have also other debtors that I am paying through a debt management company,

HSBC mortgage and

HSBC business barclays and

MBNA, the usual suspects.

i owe HSBC more than I owe BMW.

 

Can you please advise me what to do?

can I ask and insist that the hearing takes place in my local area?

Can I stop this Charging order on my house?

would you recommend a solicitor that I could contact?

Can I do this through legal aid?

 

please help me with whatever.

 

I thank you in advance,

[dx100uk]

hi duck

 

i've created your own thread

 

tell us about these bailiffs...were they ?

 

me thinks they were repro guys with no powers at all?

 

hadit already been to court by this time

 

its a long story to take in.

 

dx

[steampowered]

You need to find a new solicitor. There is a database on the law society website.

 

When was the judgment passed? Did your solicitor attend the hearing - was this a judgment in default?

[duck1967]

Hi Dx100uk,

 

these were not baillifs, they were people BMW send to collect their cars.

what upset me was that there was no need for what they did and and the terror they caused because the car was parked and waiting for them for collection.

 

after I told them to collect the car, i bought a small £600 car and stopped using that car.

This could have been very messy if i did not have the kids in the house.

 

they were 4 big skin heads but i am also 320LB and can handle myself pretty well

but the kids and family were soi scared i did not want to cause any more panic.

 

BMW charged me £386 for this service, i was fuming but before i amanged to get to court, they got this Court order for £26k on me.

 

I want to:

1- Contest this judgement and have it relooked at by a judge in my area.

They are currently asking me to go to Birmingham which is 2 1/2 hours away from me and this is where they managed their dirty work the first time.

2- Claim compensation and get BMW for what they did to me and my family to make sure that it does not happen to someone else.

3- Stop them from securing what they call a debt on my property.

4- get their charging order rejected.

 

Please let me know what can be done and who i van turn to for help. I am not satisfied with existing solicitor and need someone who really going to fight my corner.

 

Thanks for all the help,

[duck1967]

Hi steampowered,

 

thanks for responding to this.

 

would you recommend anyone? which speciality solicitor shall look for?

 

Judgement passed a couple of months ago?

solicitor did not attend, he sent this lady who just took notes,

she never once tried to argue or fight the case or explain to the judge what the real situation is or presented any arguments, she just sat there and took notes.

 

I did default but this was because I was made redundant and could not afford the £688 a month that my company was paying.

I offered them half payment just for 6 months to a year until i get back to work but they refused.

I put them in touch with debt management company and I was paying them £47, despite this they took the matter to court.

 

The total paid is £39K while the list price of the car is only £32K.

contract lasted 18 months,

it suppose to be for 48 months,

 

BMW is claiming interest on the rest even if they have not given me the service of lending me the money for the full period

because it is noted in very writing in the contract apparently.

 

i have never seen because I was never given a chance to properly read this contract or take to a solicitor firm to proof it before signature.

 

you are excited to buy a new car, you are presented with a 30 page document and asked to sign on a dotted line and this is how they get you and because they have money,

they will get very specialized, very expensive solicitor firm and let them loose on you.

 

This is the third firm that I am having to deal with.

 

I want to overturn the judgement, i want to make sure that they do not get the charging order and secure the debt on my property.

Thanks for your help.

[steampowered]

I don't know any suitable solicitors outside London, sorry. I don't think you actually said where you are living? Perhaps someone else might be able to recommend something (or you should be able to find something online). You need a solicitor that handles civil litigation and bankruptcy. Direct access to a barrister might be an option if you know what application you want to make.

 

I'm quite surprised the solicitor didn't send anyone to represent you. This is normally what you pay a solicitor to do. It seems there was a breakdown in communication here. Do you know if the solicitor was on the court record as acting for you? What does the order say - does it just state "On hearing counsel for the Claimant" or does it state that you were heard?

 

You say that you were never given a chance to properly read the contract. Is this actually true? What were the circumstances? I don't understand because surely there was no urgent need for you to have a luxury BMW, could you not have refused to sign until you read the contract?

 

Also, I'm not sure I understand the figures. Do I understand correctly: (1) Car was bought for £32k; (2) total contract price was £48k including interest; (3) you paid £39k. By my reckoning you should have had 9k left, and surely the value of the car would cover this. Where does the £26k debt come from - I assume legal costs? Please clearly break down the numbers for us?

 

It is very difficult to advise on what to do without dates. Please tell us when was the claim filed, when was the judgment granted and when BMW started taking steps to secure a charging order (have you received any court documents about this or just letters?). The dates are very important. I think your best shot might be to apply to overturn the original default judgment, but only if there are some genuine grounds to contest the debt, and we need more information to assess this. Applications to overturn a default judgment must be made promptly within the meaning of the Civil Procedure Rules hence why we need dates.

[dx100uk]

these were not baillifs, they were people BMW send to collect their cars.

 

then you need to be going to the POLICE

 

dx

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

CAG doesn't recommend solicitors I'm afraid. As steampowered said, you can go onto the Law Society website to find a lawyer, tell the search facility where you live and what speciality you're looking for and the database will tell you about possible practitioners.

 

My best, HB

[duck1967]

Thank you for your reply. Solicitor in London will be fine. Thanks.

 

I am in aylesbury, Buckinghampshire, the hearing was in Birmingham,

 

I asked for it to be changed to Aylesbury but the solicitor told me that the judge had rejected it.

i knew that I was not going to get a fair trial in Birmingham because BMW deals with more than 5 solicitor firms

and they are all in Birmingham, they also know all the judges there.

 

The application that I want to make is to contest the judgement that the previous judge has passed on me and to get to look at real figures and cost.

 

I do not know if the solicitor is on the court record, he sent a lady with me who just stayed there and took notes. where can I find this information.

They did not hear me, by the time I arrived they already passed the judgement.

 

Yes, it is true.

They never ever give time to properly read the contract and you are not allowed to say that you would like to take the contract home to proof it by a solicitor.

The contract was done by specialist cars tring who are the dealer of BMW and not BMW themselves but it was done on BMW name.

you go there, they put the TV on, give you coffee, five stars treatments until you sign.

 

in the end you hare presented with a huge document to sign in many places,

many times you do not know what you are signing for because you are never given all the details.

 

also when I changed the car before the three years,

they always refunded the interest but when I defaulted, even if the contract lasted only 18 months,

they are still claiming interest for the full 60 months not 48months. Sorry

 

Yes, correct.

In the begining, BMW were claiming £9k then 12K then 21K and after the court £26K.

I have no idea how this was calculated, where can I get you this information from?

 

I have found the documents now.

The judgement was granted on the 11th April 2012 for £26114.27.,

BMW started steps in December and the hearing is on the 24th january I can fax you all the documents if you can give a fax number

or an address where i can send them.

 

According to my solicitor, an interim charging order has been made which will might lead to an order,

this is what I am trying to stop. the hearing for this is on the 24th January in Birmingham.

I would like to set aside the judgment upon my non attendance.

 

I rang the Court and spoke with Counsel to advise them that I was on my way and indeed was in Birmingham trying to find the location of the Court

and tried to get there as quickly as i could.

 

The case was set for 3.15 p.m. and of course was there at 2.30 p.m. just to find the place and park took longer because prior to this visit i had never been to Birmingham.

The lady that was with there taking note was a barrister according to my solicitor she made it clear to the District Judge that I was close to the Court.

 

I am advised that the Judge did put the matter back to give me more time but the matter was then called back on and the District Judge was minded to proceed with the case.

I arrived when the judgement was passed and did not get a chance to say a word and neither did my barrister.

Nothing was mentioned, the fact that I was already paying £48, the fact that I offered half payment,

the fact that I already paid £39K for a car that worth £32K, the way BMW treated me and my family,

the charges imposed on me and the fact that until I work I will not be able to pay anyway.

 

Now they are after my home and I want to stop, i have other debtors as well.

 

Thanks for your help, let me know if I can send the documents somewhere.

[AndyOrch]

It is automatic once an AQ has been submitted,all defendant hearings happen in their own local C Court) so there is nothing for the DJ to reject.Because you was represented an AQ would be sent to your Sol on his request.....he did request it and submit it????

 

Regards

 

Andy

[duck1967]

Hello honeybee,

 

ok, thanks. I understand.

 

Best regards,

Jay

[duck1967]

According to my solicitor, I had to go to Birmingham because the judge has rejected the request to change where the hearing takes place. Now we have the second hearing, he is telling me that I have to go to Birmingham again and am saying he needs to change it.

He told me that he requested it but was refused.

[AndyOrch]

Not referring to the Charging Order process hearings...when you submitted your defence? You cant stop a Charging Order but you can challenge a judgment for which it relies upon.

[duck1967]

This was the first time before the charging order. When he mentioned to me that it was in Birmingham I asked him to change it to Aylesbury where I live but he came back to me that he asked the judge and it was rejected, not sure why? is this at all possible or have I been misinformed?

[AndyOrch]

Was a defence ever submitted? Who submitted it? Who completed the AQ (Allocation Questionnaire) The AQ is what transferes and determines where the hearing will be held.

[duck1967]

BMW charged me £386 for this service. They want me to pay for it too which i refused of course but then it was added to sum now imposed on me by the judge.

[MrHat]

Following

[AndyOrch]

BMW are the Claimant why would they provide legal service for you? Was the Summons (N1) in your name as defendant and are you a LiP?

[duck1967]

They are claiming money i do not owe them. i am not asking them to provide anything for me. The car I bought from them was list at £32,000, I paid £39,000 and now they want to take my house and through me and my kids in the street even though I was faithful to the brand and for more than 15 years I bought their cars.

The summons was in my name, not sure what you mean by LiP.

 

Thanks for your help.

[duck1967]

Probably all done by the solicitor. what I don't understand is that the solicitor himself is in Aylesbury, i.e local to me, why do we need to go to Birmingham?

[AndyOrch]

LiP (Litigant in Person) but you used a solicitor to represent you.Who drafted the defence who submitted it who filled the AQ. Forget charging orders for now...we have to go back to the very beginning and find out how this " solicitor " of yours conducted the response and what happened up until judgment was awarded.

[AndyOrch]

Probably all done by the solicitor. what I don't understand is that the solicitor himself is in Aylesbury, i.e local to me, why do we need to go to Birmingham?[/QUOTE]

 

Thats what I am trying to establish from above.

[duck1967]

where Can I find this information?

[AndyOrch]

From your solicitor ask for all you file...start to present.

[duck1967]

Ok, I will do. Thanks.