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Obesity: Fat People Could Face Benefit Cuts

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No research references although i am sure i could find some but again i am sure we would disagree.

We do however agree on a fundamental point, capitalism and greed are not healthy and that the major corporations produce research that backs up their products.

As for the book i will see if i can get it from the library as funds are tight.

My only problem with books are that generally they are written to make someone some money and as such i am cynical about impartiality. Actually i am cynical about most things including information collected by websites,government etc.

Seems that i have been deemed unfit to send pms or edit my posts. Looking through today it seems it has happened to others as well.

If i have broken a rule then fair enough tell me,otherwise i will continue to think that big brother is alive and well and living in cag land.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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No research references although i am sure i could find some but again i am sure we would disagree.

We do however agree on a fundamental point, capitalism and greed are not healthy and that the major corporations produce research that backs up their products.

As for the book i will see if i can get it from the library as funds are tight.

My only problem with books are that generally they are written to make someone some money and as such i am cynical about impartiality. Actually i am cynical about most things including information collected by websites,government etc.

Seems that i have been deemed unfit to send pms or edit my posts. Looking through today it seems it has happened to others as well.

If i have broken a rule then fair enough tell me,otherwise i will continue to think that big brother is alive and well and living in cag land.

 

The book I mentioned is written by a paediatric obesity specialist, working in clinical practice right now, who is also working on a law degree in his spare time so that he can learn to impact change on a national (U.S.) level. He has learned a lot in the front line treating obesity, and is considered an expert in the field. If you want to google it, he has a youtube video, Sugar the bitter truth, which is free to view.


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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Estellyn, i am sure you will be pleased to know that i have watched a short version of the video which has given me something to think about. I am therefore going to watch the 90 minute full length version.

It may or may not change my core view that obesity is due to excess intake and lack of exercise which has been brought on by society but i will let you know.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Estellyn, i am sure you will be pleased to know that i have watched a short version of the video which has given me something to think about. I am therefore going to watch the 90 minute full length version.

It may or may not change my core view that obesity is due to excess intake and lack of exercise which has been brought on by society but i will let you know.

 

Fletch, I'm just pleased that you're open to new ideas and ways of thinking - not everyone has that ability, whether you change your view or not, you're at least open to the new information, which is great. Too many people say 'I believe x', but refuse to even look into opposing viewpoints.


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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and what happens if exercise makes your health worse?

 

plus who pays for the exercise?

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So returning to the original thread. I would assume that any activity would have to be under medical supervision. However your big assumptions are that exercise has to cost,what about a walk? Also that this proposal is anything more than that,a proposal.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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my guess is under nutrition, unbalanced diets etc. (caused by lack of money to buy proper meals) kills more than obesity.

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So returning to the original thread. I would assume that any activity would have to be under medical supervision. However your big assumptions are that exercise has to cost,what about a walk? Also that this proposal is anything more than that,a proposal.

 

I am talking about if there is requirements to go somewhere for that exercise. eg. a gym.

 

what happens if you cant walk?

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Well if you can't walk it would be highly unlikely that you got sent to a gym. And remember this is all a huge if.

Frankly this is a problem somewhat down the list of priorities IMHO as this year we will not even get an inflation rise to our benefits. So a benefit that is meant to be subsistence suddenly becomes below that.

Diet and obesity is a whole different, yet to be decided argument. Bad diet is not always to do with poverty. I could eat a much healthier diet for less money if i took the time and energy to do it.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Well if you can't walk it would be highly unlikely that you got sent to a gym. And remember this is all a huge if.

Frankly this is a problem somewhat down the list of priorities IMHO as this year we will not even get an inflation rise to our benefits. So a benefit that is meant to be subsistence suddenly becomes below that.

Diet and obesity is a whole different, yet to be decided argument. Bad diet is not always to do with poverty. I could eat a much healthier diet for less money if i took the time and energy to do it.

 

how so?

 

fresh food is inherintly expensive as it doesnt keep.

 

also some of us also cant prepare normal meals I eg. can only cook myself oven pre prepped meals that sort of thing. I cant cook things on the hob and do things like slice up carrots, peal potatoes.

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Well fresh food doesn't have to be inherently more expensive, that can depend on where you live etc. If you are able and have access to a market it is a lot cheaper than supermarkets and you buy what you need. I admit that fresh meat is expensive but using cheaper cuts in slow cooking and balked out with pulses etc.

Also vegetarian meals with lentils and beans can be delicious and cheap. Porridge is cheap if you buy the oats rather than the easy sachets

Remember i am not talking about disabilities here i am talking about poverty.

If you can not prepare a normal meal from scratch,well that has been one of the descriptions for DLA care.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Or have the energy and ability to make meals from scratch...I wasnt until recentley, only this week have I found my cooking skills again

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Didn't i say IF. If you have access, if you have the ability. Sparks did you lack the energy or motivation? If it were motivation, a lack of varied ready meals would have soon sorted that :-)

 

Now this might upset people but,why are so many people with illness or disability in the glass half empty brigade.We seem to worry about us and only us, to an extent i understand it but look at the people with the most profound disabilities who get on with life. Stephen Hawkins should be an inspiration. I know it is not always easy, often i am in that place where the TV and some sci fi is the only activity or company i want or its a dose of pills and back to bed. In my case bad eating is because i just can not be bothered.

BTW I don't have a daily market near me but i buy what i need instead if bags of spuds or carrots.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Stephen Hawking is lucky. He has access to care - many of us are having to fight to get care. He also isn't in the situation of having to worry about his benefits being taken away from him. His needs are completely different to mine.

 

I do wish people would stop comparing Hawking to every single disabled person.

 

If it were motivation, a lack of varied ready meals would have soon sorted that

 

How ignorant. I have depression and can tell you right now that I'd rather live off snacky foods rather than actually cook. That's even before you go into how unsafe physically cooking is for me.

 

Please stop being so judgmental. You don't know other peoples' situations.

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Didn't i say IF. If you have access, if you have the ability. Sparks did you lack the energy or motivation? If it were motivation, a lack of varied ready meals would have soon sorted that :-)

 

Now this might upset people but,why are so many people with illness or disability in the glass half empty brigade.We seem to worry about us and only us, to an extent i understand it but look at the people with the most profound disabilities who get on with life. Stephen Hawkins should be an inspiration. I know it is not always easy, often i am in that place where the TV and some sci fi is the only activity or company i want or its a dose of pills and back to bed. In my case bad eating is because i just can not be bothered.

BTW I don't have a daily market near me but i buy what i need instead if bags of spuds or carrots.

 

I lacked the ability to stand for more than 5 mins, when cooking things would burn due to me falling asleep without warning or my lack of attention due to fatigue all caused by post op complications, i still have off days when its better that I dont cook and rely on ready meals or others cooking for me, ready meals are either expensive and nutritious or cheap and have little nutritional value :( Your example of Stephen Hawkins isnt that good, he will have a support team covering all his needs unlike myself when discharged from an extended stay in hospital I was given 3 grab rails to aide mobility, as thats all I was entitled to they said, and had to rely on my family for the rest of the support that I needed! Family who for one reason or another wasnt there most of the time!

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A jacket potato with a topping of cheese or beans is healthy, easy to prepare (just put it in the oven or microwave) and definatley cheaper than a ready meal, there is a load of nonsence about the cost of fresh food and yes markets are cheap but you can buy fresh, not very expensive food in the supermarket, however in the majority of cases I think it comes down to those that cant be bothered/or dont know how to cook from scratch and those that do cook from scratch because they can.I accept that there are a few people who cannot cook due to disability and that is a different subject. when I see people in supermarkets loading up their trollys with prepacked ready meals, crisps biscuits etc etc I do seriously wonder when there isnt a fresh ingredient to be seen.

But eating fresh isnt going to make you slim though coz if your like me you eat fresh healthy food but too much of it.


If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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I think maybe fletch doesn't relate to the concept of being so exhausted from fatigue, or so depressed that you'd rather eat nothing than cook, and in place of nothing, people will eat whatever is easiest, which isn't necessarily the most nutritious.

 

I have to say that my slow cooker is really important to me - it's huge (6.5litres) and when I have energy, my husband and I will throw the ingredients for a giant stew or chilli in the slow cooker, have some that day and then freeze the rest in portions in freezer bags for when we're not so good. But we're both very easy to please.

 

I have to say though, that if Stephen Hawking hadn't had an important talent that could still be used while needing total care, he would likely not have had the level of care and opportunities he has received. a school teacher with the same condition is not going to have received the same technology and workplace assistant that Stephen Hawking has. I saw a documentary about him last year showing that his assistant (another young physicist), prt of the job was deciphering what Hawking was trying to say, as his movement had deteriorated to the point that he could only indicate if the assistant was saying the right letter or word. could you imagine any of us being important enough to merit that level of help at work - and it being provided as part of the job? Yes it is fantastic that he still wants to work and is contributing, but frankly, I would love to work and contribute, despite being on eSA support group - I look daily for opportunities that I would be able to undertake at home in my own time. The reality is that few of us have skills that merit special arrangements or adaptations in the workplace, or for a position to be built around our disabilities, and not everyone has the ability to create their own self employed opportunity.

 

People are all different. If you throw a thousand people into the sea a mile from land, some would drown really quickly, some would keep afloat for a while then tire and drown, some might be able to keep afloat until a boat happened by, some would try swimming for land - at different speeds and some would tire and drown on the way, some would get near enough land to shout for help, some might make it to land and need varying levels of medical help, one or two will swim to land, towel themselves off and eagerly shout 'what's next?'. What I'm getting at is it's the same for people with disabilities, they come to their disabilities with varying abilities to cope both physically and psychologically, which depends on so many things, life experience, education level, skills, support, opportunities, health status, financial status, luck and many other things. A thousand people with the same disability or illness will all cope differently for different reasons. Assuming everyone should cope as well as an extraordinary person, or aspire to cope that well, belies an underlying lack of empathy or understanding of the complexities of individual circumstances.


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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Well fresh food doesn't have to be inherently more expensive, that can depend on where you live etc. If you are able and have access to a market it is a lot cheaper than supermarkets and you buy what you need. I admit that fresh meat is expensive but using cheaper cuts in slow cooking and balked out with pulses etc.

Also vegetarian meals with lentils and beans can be delicious and cheap. Porridge is cheap if you buy the oats rather than the easy sachets

Remember i am not talking about disabilities here i am talking about poverty.

If you can not prepare a normal meal from scratch,well that has been one of the descriptions for DLA care.

 

how do you have access to a local market when you cant mobilise there and pay to get there and back?

 

you seem quite out of touch.

 

One big problem with schemes penalising obesity as well is different people getter fatter easier than otjers, someone could eg. eat just oranges all day, do a physical job and still be obese, whilst someone else could be in bed all day eating takeaways and be skinny.

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A jacket potato with a topping of cheese or beans is healthy, easy to prepare (just put it in the oven or microwave) and definatley cheaper than a ready meal, there is a load of nonsence about the cost of fresh food and yes markets are cheap but you can buy fresh, not very expensive food in the supermarket, however in the majority of cases I think it comes down to those that cant be bothered/or dont know how to cook from scratch and those that do cook from scratch because they can.I accept that there are a few people who cannot cook due to disability and that is a different subject. when I see people in supermarkets loading up their trollys with prepacked ready meals, crisps biscuits etc etc I do seriously wonder when there isnt a fresh ingredient to be seen.

But eating fresh isnt going to make you slim though coz if your like me you eat fresh healthy food but too much of it.

 

you have just described what I have been eating for the past 2 months almost every day, its pretty depressing as I have little variety now in my diet.

 

and its had no affect on my weight and body shape.

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eating the same thing all the time is depressing, I remember when i was young eating instant mash, tomato sauce and blackberrys for 2 weeks not good.


If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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Ok so maybe Stephen Hawkins was not the best person to quote. Estellyn i know exactly what you mean by too exhausted to cook. My late ex wife could hardly get to the bathroom by herself and only ate whatever food i had put in the fridge. She was too proud to ask for help and too ashamed to let anyone in her house except me.

I think maybe an apology is in order.

Also just today i have been clearing a garden of a man who died a year ago,he has two kids but the house was like something from a life of grime.

Worried,do you not have friends or neighbours who could shop? I would alas not be surprised if you said no as society is shot.

Assisted blonde you are pretty spot on there about fresh food. Also the comment about the slow cooker, great example.

I knew my comments would not be welcome but i am afraid in many cases they are true.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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The last time I tried to make a jacket potato, I managed to set the fire alarm off, melt the microwave door and burnt my jacket potato to the point where it was inedible.

 

I spent most of my student days living off curry. It got boring after a while and wasn't the most nutritious thing to eat.

 

Fletch - you need to stop being judgmental. You don't know anything about other peoples lives. Many of us can't cook because of out disabilities make it difficult. My disabilities also mean I am really restricted in what I can and can't eat.

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I think you actually need to read what i have said. I asked why are people so glass half empty. Ok maybe my example of Stephen Hawkins was not good but there are plenty of disabled people who are an inspiration.

I am not judging and god knows i will fight for the rights of anyone who is disadvantaged. I have watched my stepson die of cancer,my estranged wife die of heart disease. my mother in law slowly die my father in law in hospital and sent home to die. I know how bloody difficult to get the right help and the right benefits and it is immoral that the few spoil it for the many.

I know you have to jump through hoops and more hoops to get social care.

All i asked was why people are so defensive, an open question and not a judgement.

I have had a long discussion with estellyn about nutrition and although not convinced am listening to her arguments and evidence with an open mind.

As for being judgmental i think that is what you are doing


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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How am I being judgmental? I am not the one suggesting that people can do things when they know they can't.

 

Stephen Hawkins is never a good example - he's lucky that he's got a load of stuff (care, medical equipment, etc) that only many of us can dream of.

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