Obesity: Fat People Could Face Benefit Cuts

[Mother's Little Helper]

Not sure that it matters about the individual diets of people on this forum or whether it's better that we cook from scratch or not. The point is that if I should be made redundant and need to call on the National Insurance system I have paid into for years does it give those running the system, whose wages are paid by those who have paid in, the right to tell me what I eat? I don't think so. One party wishes to nanny us and the other is paternalistic; neither of these should be the case - it is an insurance scheme. The problem is that they have avoided making this obvious because they like to use it as a political tool. £200 annual winter fuel allowence for pensioners - I ask you. How on earth much does it cost to administer that and the only reason it wasn't just added to the pension for us to decide how to manage our own income was because the party in power wanted to make a gesture.

[Nystagmite]

I think this is aimed more at those who claim IB / ESA for obesity and obesity related illnesses rather than those who lose their job, claim JSA and are capable of working.

[honeybee13]

Not sure that it matters about the individual diets of people on this forum or whether it's better that we cook from scratch or not. The point is that if I should be made redundant and need to call on the National Insurance system I have paid into for years does it give those running the system' date=' whose wages are paid by those who have paid in, the right to tell me what I eat? I don't think so. One party wishes to nanny us and the other is paternalistic; neither of these should be the case - it is an insurance scheme. The problem is that they have avoided making this obvious because they like to use it as a political tool. £200 annual winter fuel allowence for pensioners - I ask you. How on earth much does it cost to administer that and the only reason it wasn't just added to the pension for us to decide how to manage our own income was because the party in power wanted to make a gesture.[/quote']

 

Hello there.

 

To pick out one part of your post, although I do sympathise with what you say, NI has never been an insurance scheme. For as long as I remember, this year's contributions have paid this year's claims/pensions, etc. It's just been another form of tax.

 

HB

[count orlok]

Indeed the only way to lose fat is for energy in to be less than energy out. Of course going to the gym can help that but at the other end it can increase weight as muscle is denser than fat.

 

As for the logic of having a car on DLA if you think about it there is no sense. The car will be made by a foreign owned company so the profit made will be paid to a foreign company etc. If you follow the logic we can create wealth by making everyone unemployed or sick.

I truly hope no one believes that

 

Not all DLA cars are foreign, I think you'll find the majority are British built. Even so there is a massive industry involved in servicing the cars selling them etc. An industry that will be very badly damaged by PIP and the lose of 1000s of Motability customers.

 

Taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich is not the way to boost the economy, it does the opposite. The rich do not spend their extra money they already have more than enough Super cars/yachts. The only way to boost the economy is to give money to the poor they spend most of their money. Just what is needed for the country.

 

Also the poor are obese because cheap food is unhealthy (it needn't be but it is). We are a couple on pension credits and eat healthy food; a weeks food costs us more than a couple on working age benefits get to cover everything.

[count orlok]

Hello there.

 

To pick out one part of your post, although I do sympathise with what you say, NI has never been an insurance scheme. For as long as I remember, this year's contributions have paid this year's claims/pensions, etc. It's just been another form of tax.

 

HB

 

That may be true but it was sold to the british people as a social security system (well at least it did up untill the 1980s/Thatcher). One which we all paid into happily because we knew if we where sick or unable to work we would be looked after. If we wanted a low tax system, where we looked after our own health and welfare we would have moved to the US.

Edited January 6, 2013 by count orlok

[estellyn]

Can't take statins as they have an adverse effect on me. I think they clash with the methotrexate and make me fell very woozy. I guess it may cheaper than drinking the beer to get the same feeling!

Recently I have started drinking a tot of whisky on its own on occasion, but never when we are out and about socialising which is about once a week at the local as I prefer a lager.

 

Statins are useless for most people and have more side effects than benefits.

[honeybee13]

That may be true but it was sold to the british people as a social security system (well at least it did up untill the 1980s). One which we all paid into happily because we knew if we where sick or unable to work we would be looked after. If we wanted a low tax system, where we looked after our own health and welfare we would have moved to the US.

 

Hi, I know what you mean, it's an unfortunate name with hindsight. I paid in for years too, I'm not saying it isn't disappointing.

 

HB

[estellyn]

I think this is aimed more at those who claim IB / ESA for obesity and obesity related illnesses rather than those who lose their job, claim JSA and are capable of working.

 

ah, but obesity IS an illness, so there are plenty of other illnesses that could have behavioural caveats to benefit payments, but the other illnesses are not being targeted.

[count orlok]

Statins are useless for most people and have more side effects than benefits.

 

I hope not, I'm on 80mg a day!

[estellyn]

I hope not, I'm on 80mg a day!

 

There are some people they seem to help - those with familial hypercholesterolemia, and men who have already had heart attacks, though the latter group may be helped more by the anti inflammatory effects of the statins rather than from any cholesterol lowering effect.

[fletch70]

Obesity is not always an illness although sometimes it is granted.

Can i ask what your scientific and /or medical qualifications are as you do seem very prone to sweeping statements. If statins. are of no use why does the nhs spend so much valuable money on them,why is my foreign brother in law prescribed statins from his home country doctor because of a genetic cholesterol problem.

 

Count Orlock, maybe the cars are British built but by foreign owned companies. Are there any economic studies that show the cost if motorbility payments brings more or less money in.

 

I appreciate everyone has a particular viewpoint but we need to have open minds, present me with the evidence and i will question it and make a decision on varying my stance.

 

There are as many varieties of diets as days in the year. Maybe the diet of porridge sandwich and cooked meal was a little heavy on carbs, personally i don't think so. I suspect the porridge is made with protein rich milk. If the poster has been on it for six months, to suggest that they will have list no fat is odd. Is it all water then? They would be ill by now.

[fletch70]

Just read the evidence about cholesterol and statins. Alas it is either bad or incomplete science. There is no distinguishing between types of cholesterol. where it says people with heart disease have lower cholesterol is that on diagnosis or after treatment?

I do agree there are side effects and i also agree that a lot can be done with diet,but as previously discussed that isn't a quick or easy fix.

 

My biggest shock today however was finding that i had to agree with the devil of Rome who says that capitalism is a bad thing.

[estellyn]

Just read the evidence about cholesterol and statins. Alas it is either bad or incomplete science. There is no distinguishing between types of cholesterol. where it says people with heart disease have lower cholesterol is that on diagnosis or after treatment?

I do agree there are side effects and i also agree that a lot can be done with diet,but as previously discussed that isn't a quick or easy fix.

 

 

I don't have a medical degree, but I do have a science based degree. I enjoy keeping up to date in areas of health, nutrition, weight, and particularly where these intersect. I also have become particularly interested in areas of bad science, and sadly nutrition and pharmaceuticals are particularly bad - generally because a lot of the research is sponsored, carried out by or endorsed by people with a vested interest. Any statements I make on these areas are from my own reading of the research, and of those who have analysed the research, I'm happy to suggest some reading to any who are interested. I was amazed when I started reading and found out how much we consider to be 'common sense' or common knowledge in these areas is actually based on poor research showing correlations rather than proving causation. The whole demonisation of fat rather than sugar started with a guy called Ancel Keys, who did a correlation between heart disease and fat intake in seven countries - turns out he had info on 22 countries (if I remember rightly) but just picked countries that fit his hypothesis. Turns out there was a much stronger correlation between sugar and heart disease and highly processed fats and heart disease (think highly processed vegetable oil and margerine, trans fats etc).

 

I remember when I first started reading the first book I got on the issue, starting to read around on the internet in shock, looking at the actual research and then waving the book at my husband ranting about we were all being lied to and given all the wrong advice. Sadly, nowadays, money talks louder than truth, or peoples' health and lives.

[Sparks_]

I followed the slimming world diet and managed to lose 2 and a half stone and have kept most off! Will be restarting next week a I have more to lose.

My Doc has encoraged me to walk, even if its just 10 mins a day, you get a change of scenery, fresh air(as long as its not next to a busy road) Vit D if its sunny and it helps lift your mood and weight control,was doing that till my latest op now I am back to hobbling for 5 to 10 mins instead of my 30 mins a day, I miss going out but its far to painful

[count orlok]

There are some people they seem to help - those with familial hypercholesterolemia, and men who have already had heart attacks, though the latter group may be helped more by the anti inflammatory effects of the statins rather than from any cholesterol lowering effect.

 

Thats good. I seem to fit the group they help perfectly. I eat very healthy home cooked food, but due to lack of exersize because of several heart attacks and other problems I am a few stone over weight. I'd have to take the cut in benefits though rather than risk a gym.

[san_d]

Hello san_d.

 

Do you have a qualification in nutrition?

 

HB

 

No.

[fletch70]

Estellyn. having a scientific background you will understand my concerns about incomplete science just as any sort of spin worries me. Lies dam lies and statistics. The evidence you quoted did not provide a full and reasoned argument that would hold any water as a stand alone hypothesis.

This is one of the dangers of the internet, it gives credibility to unfounded and unproven theories and they can get away with it because no one questions .

[Surfer01]

Any one remember that program on obese people where they had to cut away the roof of a house to lift the person off the bed with a crane to take them to a hospital. It was aired a few months ago. The person had no disorders, but just ate too much of the wrong food. I think that those people need to be targeted and helped, not penalised.

[Surfer01]

I can hardly call it a healthy diet. For starters it's too rich in carbohydrates (ok for the prorridge though), not enough protein and you need some healthy fats, like Omega 3 from fish. Then what about the fizzy drinks?

You might have lost weight but I am pretty sure you haven't lost much body fat.

EDIT: I missed the meat for dinner. Still not an ideal diet.

Why? The only fizzy drink besides the odd beer that I have is Coke zero now and then or when out a diet whatever drink. Eat a lot of chicken and have fish once for twice a week. Fish is plain and not battered.

[Nystagmite]

Whilst Coke Zero may have no calories, it's full of sugar.

[Surfer01]

Whilst Coke Zero may have no calories, it's full of sugar.

 

It states on the can that it is sugar free and has a content of less than 1 calorie. I thought it was caffeine free, but apparently not. I was buying it because I thought it was caffeine free! Thanks for spoiling one of my few pleasures.

I now have to start searching all over again for a fizzy soft drink that does not contain caffeine or sugar! My wife is not supposed to drink anything with caffeine in it!

[Nystagmite]

You're very unlikely to find a fizzy soft drink with no sugar in. Those with no sugar in have artificial sweeteners in.

[Surfer01]

You're very unlikely to find a fizzy soft drink with no sugar in. Those with no sugar in have artificial sweeteners in.

 

Sweeteners but no caffeine is what I would be looking for.

[antone]

Sweeteners but no caffeine is what I would be looking for.

 

You used to be able to get caffeine-free Diet Coke, but I haven't seen it anywhere in ages. It was sold in gold coloured cans. IMHO it was pretty terrible anyhow. How about something like Diet Sprite, Diet 7-Up or Diet Fanta?

[estellyn]

Estellyn. having a scientific background you will understand my concerns about incomplete science just as any sort of spin worries me. Lies dam lies and statistics. The evidence you quoted did not provide a full and reasoned argument that would hold any water as a stand alone hypothesis.

This is one of the dangers of the internet, it gives credibility to unfounded and unproven theories and they can get away with it because no one questions .

 

What do you want proof of, I'll dig out some links to the actual research, which is what I look at to check out anyone on the internet I read - I check their sources and see if the theory holds water to me. But everyone needs to make their own decisions - I just wish more people practised critical thinking skills, rather than absorb media stories, which are the worst.