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cptncold

UK inherited debt being chased overseas

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Greetings!

 

I havent got any sleep for weeks since the Lloyds TSB is chasing me.

 

The story goes as following (pardon my broken English, I live in eastern parts of EU):

 

About 5 months ago a close relative of mine died.

I was the sole inheritor of her property,

consisting of an apartment and several loans.

 

I have taken care of 2 out of 3 debts.

The third one is Lloyds TSB and the sum is 3000 GBP.

 

Since one of those 3 loans pretty much crippled me financially (I am still quite young) and the apartment is, well, everything I have!

 

Lloyds got my address through solicitor, who took care of the inheritance process.

 

By the local law inheritance goes as following by my best understanding:

Inheritor notices the solicitor

-> solicitor notifies all the local banks to get information about outstanding debts and assets,

as well as gathers other information about assets.

(this is the part where I did wrong - to my knowledge,

she had some assets held by Lloyds so I listed it down and solicitor contacted them about me being the benefactor)

 

-> 30 days is given for other relatives to claim their part of the inheritance, if they have any legal reason to get anything.

 

-> benefactor is notified about the debts and assets and the case is closed if there is no dispute.

 

The benefactor is obliged to cover all debts marked up in the documents then received, as well as any new ones that surface within a year.

 

About a month after receiving the mentioned paperwork, I got a formal letter from Lloyds,

claiming that my relative had a debt (suspiciously round amount?) with them

and I should notify them if there are sufficient funds left from the estate to cover it.

 

Well, there is the apartment but selling that would mean me being homeless, since the market value is quite low and I can not afford a rental.

 

Enclosed was also a quite massive form, called the Assets and Liabilities Form,

that demanded quite a lot of sensitive information, including bank acc. numbers of the deceaseds' other bank accounts,

list of valuables, contact information of other benefactors and so on.

I decided to ignore that letter,

 

about 3 months have passed and I received another letter, this time in a more discrete envelope.

The letter again asks me to confirm if there are sufficient funds blah blah

and they can not drop the account until I have returned completed assets and liabilities form,

which, as stated on the form itself in veeeery fine print, is pretty much a legally binding contract

- if I fail to inform the bank accurately about ALL the assets the deceased had and the bank finds out,

I have agreed that the bank should take legal action against me.

 

quoth the letter:

We would remind you that if the late XXXXXX had any assets then there is a legal requirement for outstanding debts to be settled before monies are paid to family or friends.

 

To sum things up:

I am certainly unable to pay that 3000 quid.

I would like to avoid responding to them. That would be the last line of defence for me.

 

Making the inventory of the deceaseds' assets can be only handled by a solicitor and before the inheritance is finalized.

 

Furthermore, asking about bank details should be a violation of information protection laws in my opinion.

 

But telling them that could mean that the debt could be handled by local inheritance law, meaning that I most certainly must pay it.

 

The latter letter seemed quite computer generated. Signed by Mrs. XXXXX, Centre Manager. Scare tactic?

The deceased was not UK national, neither am I.

 

Long story short, how long would the ignoring tactic hold and how much chance could I actually stand avoiding that debt? I am quite scared here, I just started independent life.

Any help is appreciated!

Thank you!

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Where is the inherited apartment ? UK or elsewhere ?

 

Where was the Lloyds/TSB taken out ? What it a secured or unsecured loan ? Was it solely in your relatives name, without any other person as a guarantor ? ( Secured means using property as security and unsecured obviously means the loan was not connected with property acting a security)

Were you noted as executor of your relatives estate following their passing ? Did they leave a will stating this ?

 

If you were not an executor and were not party to any of the loans or financial arrangements your relative had, then I am not sure you had any responsibility to deal with the debts. There would also not be any responsibility on your part to complete any of the forms sent to you by Lloyds/TSB.

 

I would suggest that you just write back to Lloyds/TSB saying that you have no understanding of what they are writing about, that the deceaseds estate is still to be resolved and that it may be sometime before you are aware of what the exact situation is.

 

But can you clarify the situation by answering the above.

 

Based on the limited information in your post, I don't think you need to worry too much. It may be the case that Lloyds/TSB will have to accept losing the money and you have no responsibility for it.

Edited by unclebulgaria67

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There was a will, stating me as an executor. I have no other details about the loan. Could be a [problem], could be an unsecured loan (most likely). The apartment is not in UK, my relative only worked there and had two bank accounts. The other was at Barclays, I have not heard from them.

Lloyds gave me only the loan acc. number and the sum of 3000GBP in the letters, no further details.

Edited by cptncold

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There was a will, stating me as an executor. I have no other details about the loan. Could be a [problem], could be an unsecured loan (most likely). The apartment is not in UK, my relative only worked there and had two bank accounts. The other was at Barclays, I have not heard from them.

 

Ok, assuming that your deceased relative did not own any assets in the UK and that the Lloyds/TSB loan was therefore unsecured, was there are other money or other financial assets left in the UK ?

 

Lloyds/TSB cannot touch your inherited property outside of the UK. It was an unsecured loan and therefore there was the risk that they would not be repaid, if there was no money or Insurance to cover the amount outstanding.

 

Did your relative have any life or other Insurance that would have covered any debts on their passing ? It may be worth looking at your relatives bank accounts to see whether they were paying any regular Insurance premiums for life cover.


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To my understanding, there was approximately 300GBP at Lloyds. There was no insurance to my knowledge, what is quite limited. I have no access to her bank records or anything. Only piece of information I have is that she had allegedly that loan and 300 quid. My guess is that there is nothing more, she was on the verge of going bankrupt.

 

EDIT: Quoth the first letter: "Could you please respond and acknowledge our claim". Yup. I think they know they don't have ground to stand on and are trying to trick me out of my money. But I could be wrong.

Edited by cptncold

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To my understanding, there was approximately 300GBP at Lloyds. There was no insurance to my knowledge, what is quite limited. I have no access to her bank records or anything. Only piece of information I have is that she had allegedly that loan and 300 quid. My guess is that there is nothing more, she was on the verge of going bankrupt.

 

I would write to Lloyds/TSB stating something like this.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Reference no..................................... Deceased ..........................................................................................

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxxxx.

 

Unfortunately, I have very limited knowledge of the deceased financial position at the time of their passing and therefore cannot complete any forms that you have sent in regard to their financial position i.e assets/liabilities. As far as I am led to believe, they had £300 left in their Lloyds account and nothing else to cover any unsecured debts in the UK. I also do not believe they had any form of Insurance to cover any liabilities on their passing.

 

Sorry that I cannot help you any further with this, as I simply do not have the information that you are seeking.

 

Yours faithfully.


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Thank you! I'll try and wait some more and reply to them as you guided when they send another suspicious letter.

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Remember that as Executor you do have a responsibility for finding out the exact financial position of your deceased relative and of drawing up an account of their assets/liabilities. You also have a legal responsibility of making sure the wishes of your relative, as detailed in their will are carried out.

 

You do not however have any responsibility for paying their unsecured debts, if there is no money in the estate to pay them.

 

Have a read through this guide from Citizens Advice.

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_death_and_wills_e/dealing_with_the_financial_affairs_of_someone_who_has_died.htm


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i would also call their bluff.

 

send them an sar.

 

i bet bottom dollar they will reply that you are not entitled to the information!

 

the other thing will be the fact that i bet PENALTY charges are involved here too.

 

no chance Lloyds.

 

dx


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Dx is right on this a SAR is the way to go, you are not personally liable for the debts, if there are no funds left in the estate that's tough on the banks.


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There was a will, stating me as an executor. I have no other details about the loan. Could be a [problem], could be an unsecured loan (most likely). The apartment is not in UK, my relative only worked there and had two bank accounts. The other was at Barclays, I have not heard from them.

Lloyds gave me only the loan acc. number and the sum of 3000GBP in the letters, no further details.

 

You will need to find out the situation with the Barclays account. To do this, you may have to contact the Solicitor who dealt with your relatives estate or come to the UK with all the relevant documents including something to ID yourself, so they can release the information to you.

 

You are probably best to contact the Solicitor in the UK to find out the situation. If there are very few UK assets and you do not sign to pay the Solicitors fees, I suspect that they might not wish to do much work for you.


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Barclays account was closed by a close friend of the deceased. I suppose there were no outstanding debts or funds left. But to my best knowledge there is no other assets remaining than the 300 in Lloyds and the apartment, already written to my name.

I'll wait for another letter from Lloyds and see if they talk themselves further more in. Something just doesn't smell right about this whole thing. Then I'll demand a SAR. Anything else I could do to call on their bulls*it?

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Barclays account was closed by a close friend of the deceased. I suppose there were no outstanding debts or funds left. But to my best knowledge there is no other assets remaining than the 300 in Lloyds and the apartment, already written to my name.

I'll wait for another letter from Lloyds and see if they talk themselves further more in. Something just doesn't smell right about this whole thing. Then I'll demand a SAR. Anything else I could do to call on their bulls*it?

 

No Lloyds will only have sent you a standard letter, as they do to all executors. They will have no knowledge of your relatives financial situation, other than what they could find out from the credit reference agencies.

 

You would be best to write to them, as previously advised, to state that you are only aware of the Lloyds account which had about £300.

 

If you don't write to them, then they will send more standard letters.

 

Although your relative died in the UK, you are probably best to get advice from the country where they owned the apartment. I am guessing that you will now have to register the change of ownership into your name and will require the relevant documents to do this. So you will need the UK issued death certificate, will and grant of probate.


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I live in the apartment and the ownership was changed to my name 2 months after the death.

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I live in the apartment and the ownership was changed to my name 2 months after the death.

 

If there is nothing remaining in the UK and the apartment ownership has already been dealt with then there does not appear anything left to do. But I would suggest that you just write to Lloyds as suggested, just so that they are aware of the situation. They should then write off the loan, as they have no chance of making a recovery.


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Thanks for the help! I'll try to weasel myself out of this situation :)

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The Inland Revenue has stated that my relative owes them ~700 GBP. I say- lets play ball! I am going to contact Lloyds first, stating that there is an outstanding debt with IRS too and they'd better use the 300GBP she had there to partially cover the debt before I contact the IRS, who in my opinion has more right to the money, being goverment institution and whatnot but at the same time I write IRS that there is 3000GBP outstanding at Lloyds, thus proving that there really is nothing left. Lets see how it turns out...the second debt might just be my ticket out of both :peep:

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I advise caution HMRC are not known for a sense of humour.


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I plan to just state the obvious to them - there is nothing left but debt :) I might mention that there is 300GBP in Lloyds, what they want to partially repay the loan. Let's see how those two get along...

 

EDIT: Any suggestions how I could handle this situation better?

Edited by cptncold

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I plan to just state the obvious to them - there is nothing left but debt :) I might mention that there is 300GBP in Lloyds, what they want to partially repay the loan. Let's see how those two get along...

 

EDIT: Any suggestions how I could handle this situation better?

 

As executor it was your responsibility to have drawn up accounts showing assets and liabilities that were available to meet any debts.

 

Suggest that you write to advise IRS of the financial situation and that the only money available is £300 with Lloyds (provide them with sortcode and account number) and that you believe Lloyds may have taken this amount to offset a loan debt held by Lloyds. Send IRS a copy of the death certificate if not already sent to them.

 

Then see how they respond. If there is no money to pay them or only this £300 with Lloyds, they will have to fight Lloyds for it or write this tax debt off.

 

Did you handle the grant of probate or did the Solicitor do this ? If the Solicitor dealt with it, then provide the IRS with the Solicitors contact details.


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The IRS was notified and received the death certificate about half a year ago, week after the death. They really don't seem to be interested in the grant of probate (solicitor did it, as the local law demands), only local banks and institutions demanded it. Letting IRS and Lloyds aka the big boys fight over the pennies sounds both fun and practical, although I wish that Lloyds would just take the damned 300 and write the loan off since if all goes sour, the IRS debt is far less devastating for me to pay out of my pocket.

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