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    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
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6 months ago I made an arrangement with these bailiffs to pay a set amount monthly. Up until a month ago I was keeping to the agreement, I missed the last payment as my newborn baby was seriously ill in hospital and I just totally forgot to pay.

 

I have emailed them and they informed me that they are willing to set up a new agreement at the same amount (they told me that the last agreement was temporary- news to me!) but anyway, they are asking for proof of income support, I no longer get income support but am receiving maternity allowance at the moment.

If I tell them that I am no longer receiving income support I am afraid that they will demand payment in full or not offer the agreement at the amount it is now (it's the maximum I can afford)

 

Also the form is asking for my landlords details, do I have to give these?

I have asked for a breakdown of costs as 6 months ago I only had about £100 to pay but they added hundreds on in fees.

May be worth noting that the only way they gave me a payment agreement last time was because I contacted the council involved and they stopped the bailiff action.

 

Any advice welcome

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"May be worth noting that the only way they gave me a payment agreement last time was because I contacted the council involved and they stopped the bailifflink3.gif action."

Why didn't you set up an agreement directly with the council?

 

that would have been the best option, any way you are still on low income with a new baby so may well still be vulnerable, offer to pay the council direct, at a rate you can afford and try to keep the bailiff away. If they have no levy, they have no leverage to add more fees, keep them out.


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You are still on benefit just from a different ''source'' so that should not be a problem.

#No you do not have to give details of the LL, if this is for council tax the my attempt to say the LL is responsible, this of course is totally wrong.


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If I am reading your question correct you have recently had a baby. When was this? This is very important as it would seem to me that you would be classed as "vulnerable" in accordance with the National Standards for Enforcement Agents.

 

When you set up the payment arrangement did you let the bailiff into your home (to levy upon goods) or was a levy made upon a vehicle?

 

Also, are the local authority aware that you have recently had a baby?

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6 months ago I made an arrangement with these bailiffs to pay a set amount monthly. Up until a month ago I was keeping to the agreement, I missed the last payment as my newborn baby was seriously ill in hospital and I just totally forgot to pay.

 

I have emailed them and they informed me that they are willing to set up a new agreement at the same amount (they told me that the last agreement was temporary- news to me!) but anyway, they are asking for proof of income support, I no longer get income support but am receiving maternity allowance at the moment.

If I tell them that I am no longer receiving income support I am afraid that they will demand payment in full or not offer the agreement at the amount it is now (it's the maximum I can afford)

 

Also the form is asking for my landlords details, do I have to give these?

I have asked for a breakdown of costs as 6 months ago I only had about £100 to pay but they added hundreds on in fees.

May be worth noting that the only way they gave me a payment agreement last time was because I contacted the council involved and they stopped the bailiff action.

 

Any advice welcome

 

I think we need to go back to the beginning with this.....you say hundreds of £'s have been added to this debt and in all honesty I suspect you could well be due a refund if these amounts can be seen to be unlawful. Let us try to sort fact from fiction with these fees and see if you are being ripped off.

 

Can you tell us:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much you have paid to date

7- how much the bailiff has added in fees

5. has the bailiff been in your home or levied on a vehicle you own

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Sorry, I should have been more clear in my first post.

 

The debt is 6 years old and I am now living in a totally different area- have been for 5 years (as an aside, b&s arent aware I have moved house again, im nervous to tell them but I suppose I will have to).

Last year the local authority that I owe the debt to, refused to let me deal/pay them directly.

 

They have 1 liability order against me as far as I am aware, i am not sure of the date of this but it was for an address the other side of the country from which i moved from 5 years ago.

The breakdown of costs provided to me as of may 2012 was:

Attendance on 21/09/11

Council tax & court costs £582.31

Attendance to levy fee £24.50

Levy fee £44.00

Walking possession fee £12.00

Redemption of goods fee £24.50

Total £687.31

 

Minus 7 payments of £35 = £245

 

New total £442.31

 

They then added £180 for a visit to my house

 

Since then I have paid 5 x £35 = £175

 

Unfortunately I did let them into my house (not this address if it makes any difference), the bailiff turned up when i was poorly, and more or less bullied his way in (which i gave in as my disabled son was getting distressed).

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From your answer you will now understand why it is necessary to ask for the background. One small point is that the "redemption of goods fee" of £24.50 must be removed. The Ombudsman made this very clear in her highly critical report against Blaby District Council in July.

 

Do you remember what goods were levied upon?

 

Also, you should call the council today and ask them to confirm the precise amount of the LO and whilst on the phone....ask them to confirm how much they have received from the bailiff company !!!

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There will be a lot questions on this but please stay in there as straight away I can see possible discrepencies with these fees.

 

I would be inclined to suggest that if this 'levy' was done at a previous address then it cannot be given consideration to be currently 'active' but more importantly it begs the question....was that attendance on 21/9/2011 the only visit made by the bailiff for which these 'fees' have been added? You make mention to having a disabled child....that places you as a vulnerable household where enforcement is concerned,

 

You are going to have to email the bailiff for a breakdown of their fees ...you need dates and times etc of any visits that allegedly incurred the these fees, adapt the template below and send them a request for a fully detailed breakdown.,Until such time as we get to see what has been charged by the bailiffs and when I would suggest, if you have the reference for the CT year in question, start to make your £35 payment direct to the Council concerned using their online payment facility, if the bailiff does not have your current address I see no reason to give it to him.

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

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The things levied upon were a tv, microwave, chair... I'm not sure what else but it was nothing of great value and I no longer have the items that were levied (they were old so have been replaced)

 

I'm still awaiting a breakdown of charges and remaining balance from bristow, and I tried ringing the council but they wouldn't discuss it as the person I need to deal with is away until today, but I have already sent him an email as he was helpful last time so hopefully he will get back to me soon.

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The things levied upon were a tv, microwave, chair... I'm not sure what else but it was nothing of great value and I no longer have the items that were levied (they were old so have been replaced)

 

I'm still awaiting a breakdown of charges and remaining balance from bristow, and I tried ringing the council but they wouldn't discuss it as the person I need to deal with is away until today, but I have already sent him an email as he was helpful last time so hopefully he will get back to me soon.

 

It is possible that the levy may be challenged as the goods levied were of insufficient value, and some items may be exempt, leading you to believe the levy was merely to garner fees for the bailiff. You could start the ball rolling with a Formal complaint about the levy, and others will be along soon no doubt with salient advice.

Edited by brassnecked

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I have had a reply from bristow... I will copy and paste below- I did request an arrangement of £35 a month in my original email to them.

 

We acknowledge receipt of your recent email, the contents of which have been duly noted.

 

Further to your recent enquiry, please find enclosed a statement of your account as requested.

 

We note from our previous email we requested a proposal of payment to be included with the documentary evidence supplied however this has not been included with the information provided. Whilst we have considered the documents provided and regret to advise that we are unable to enter into any further temporary arrangements as you are no longer in receipt of Income Support.

 

However we are prepared to consider a permanent arrangement and therefore require the following payments:

 

£138.31 required by 15/01/2013 followed by 2 monthly payments of £137.00

If you fail to make payment of any of the instalments detailed above, the agreement will be cancelled and the full sum will become due and payable, further recovery action will be taken against you.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

I am in receipt of maternity allowance which is a benefit, yet they are unwilling to accept that.

What do I do now?

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I should add this is in the name of my ex too who they have made no attempt to chase for the money, despite him working!

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They cannot ask you to pay more than you can reasonably afford, an increase of nearly £100.00 on your offer is ridiculous, and breaches OFT Guidance which you can quote to them.


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Is your ex paying anything at all??


Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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This thread is really worrying me as it is CLEAR that the local authority should be addressing this case. You are clearly classed as vulnerable. !!!

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I would suggestm Forml Complaint to the CEO of the authority asap.


Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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As per Brigadier, Formal Complaint, to CEO, Leader, local member and MP stating also that you are likely vulnerable under the National Standards, and Bristols and Stupor are ignoring the standards by continuing to press you to pay amounts you cannot afford.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I agree with TT...... to be asking you to pay an amount you clearly cannot afford while being classed as vulnerable is nothing short of ridiculous. This matter MUST be referred back to the Council and a formal complaint has to be sent without delay. B&S should be called into question for the way in which they have handled this debacle.

 

WD

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... you have recently had a baby. When was this? This is very important as it would seem to me that you would be classed as "vulnerable" in accordance with the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. ... Also, are the local authority aware that you have recently had a baby?

 

This is important.

 

... (which i gave in as my disabled son was getting distressed).

 

This is just as important - if not more so!

 

This thread is really worrying me as it is CLEAR that the local authority should be addressing this case. You are clearly classed as vulnerable. !!!

 

This is, not surprisingly, also important.

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Hi Rae, happy New Year, yes the vulnerability has been casually brushed away here by Bristol & Stupid, there are two elements here, that are indicative of an ongoing vulnerability in querty12345's situaion, the new baby, dependant on age, and the disabled child

How old is your disabled child, and what is the natyre of disability?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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My ex is not paying anything, they have never made an attempt to get money from him despite me giving them his phone number and address.

 

My disabled son is 5 years old and is severely autistic and has learning difficulties.

 

Can anyone tell me if the levy is still valid? It is from September 2011 and I have since moved house.

 

I will get on with writing a complaint now.

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As you have moved house I would argue it is invalid, but the bailiff will claim it is still valid, but then he would as all he wants are fees

Edited by brassnecked

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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A few days ago I suggested calling the calling to request details of the Liability Order and to ask how much they have received from Bristow & Sutor. The council are also responsible for their agent charging a redemption of Goods Fee. Have you called them ?

 

The bailiff has charged you £180 to "attend to remove" items that are of NO value.

 

You are vulnerable and further...more you have a disabled child. PLEASE make sure that this account is brought to the attention of the Local Authority !!

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Thank you for all your help.

 

The council today agreed to stop all action against me and to pursue my ex partner for the money. If that fails then they have requested the case is returned to them and they will agree to a reasonable repayment amount with themselves.

 

I can't describe how relieved I am!

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Lovely ending to brighten up anyone's miserable day...well done and good luck.

 

WD

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