Solicitor issus claim for fees...How can they give me a ccj?

[welshdana]

Two years ago I got divorced.

 

The solicitor I saw told me I wasn't entitled to legal aid as my benefits income was too high.

She did however agree to represent me and I would pay her when the matrimonial home is sold out of my share.

 

the house has been lingering on the market for two years, I have reduced the sale price incrementally by £100,000.

 

Six months ago the solicitor apparently had a 'drive by' valuation of the house done and felt that it was overpriced by another £45,000.

 

I told her the estate agent disagrees and in any case if I sell at that price I would be forced to become homeless with my little boy

and she would have to wait as had been previously agreed.

She then started charging me 4% interest on what I owe her.

 

Two days ago I had a the court papers for a ccj.

 

She said she has invoiced me four times in the last year and I haven't paid up.

 

No mention was made of our agreement that I would pay her on sale of the house.

 

I have asked her for a copy of my credit agreement and agreement for the interest charges four times now.

 

In April, June, December and again two days ago but she just wont send me a copy.

 

I'm afraid, I don't know how to fill in the papers correctly and I can't face the idea of standing up to her in court.

I can't get a CCJ, i need to get a small mortgage when this house finally sells or its a 5-7 year wait on the council housing list

or taking the homeless route to be housed somewhere awful.

 

Even landlords in my area check your credit history.

 

Please help advise me someone

 

I have asked her for a copy of our agreement

[citizenB]

I will flag your thread for site team to advise.

 

Can you tell us what is the date of issue on the Claim form - you will find that at the top right hand corner of the claim form. That way we can work out what your timeline is.

 

Can you also let us know exactly what it says on the claim form - the reason she has issued this.

 

I think that there might be a try on here - unless there was something in writing regarding the way in which the solicitor would be paid and that interest would be added then I rather suspect she might not get that.

 

You will need to obtain information by way of CPR31.14, but until you let us know exactly what is on the claim form, we dont know what to advise you to ask for.

[citizenB]

Was the agreement ever put into writing ?

[welshdana]

The claim was issued in Northampton on 28/12/12. Brief details of claim : claim for money relating to unpaid invoice. They started charging me interest at 4.5% pursuant to section 69 of the county court act from the date payment fell due. The invoice attached to the form is dated 27th January 2012. I definately signed something about payment after the sale of the house before the court final hearing in September 2010 but they wont give me a copy.

 

Thank you so much for taking an interest. I haven't broken any agreement, I'm just so confused.

[AndyOrch]

If you could type out the Particulars (verbatim) dana, less any identifiable data.We have to know every word they plead to offer advice and refute any claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[citizenB]

If you could do as andyorch asks then we can move forward.

 

Your timeline is..

 

Issue date 28/12/2012 + 5 days for service = 02/01/2013 + 14 days to acknowledge = 16/01/2012 + 14 to submit defence = 30/01/2013 (33 days from issue date)

 

So you have a bit of time in hand.

[welshdana]

I typed this in this morning but I couldn't have posted properly.

1. the claimant provided professional services to the defendant at the defendants request. The claimant subsequently invoiced the defendant for those services and invoices totalling the sum of £**** remain unpaid. details of which are contained in the attached document.

2. The claimant has written to the defendant on several occassions requesting payment of the balance due.

3. The claimant is also entitled to and claims interest from the date payment fell due until payment at the rate of 4.5% per annum persuant to section 69 of the county court act 1984. As at 7 december 2012.

the claimant claims, payment, interest and costs.

 

I spoke to the solicitors firm today who are taking me to court they said not to bother to respond to the court forms. as far as they are concerned the agreement to pay out of the proceeds of sale still stand. They won't enforce the order unless I fail to keep them updated or show I'm not trying hard enough to sell the property. I'm even more confused now.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Dana

 

I typed this in this morning but I couldn't have posted properly.

1. the claimant provided professional services to the defendant at the defendants request. The claimant subsequently invoiced the defendant for those services and invoices totalling the sum of £**** remain unpaid. details of which are contained in the attached document.

You have it in writing the agreement that payment will be made on completion of the house sale?

2. The claimant has written to the defendant on several occassions requesting payment of the balance due. Have they ?

3. The claimant is also entitled to and claims interest from the date payment fell due until payment at the rate of 4.5% per annum persuant to section 69 of the county court act 1984. As at 7 december 2012.

the claimant claims, payment, interest and costs.

 

I spoke to the solicitors firm today who are taking me to court they said not to bother to respond to the court forms. as far as they are concerned the agreement to pay out of the proceeds of sale still stand.You need a copy of that if you dont already have one They won't enforce the order unless I fail to keep them updated or show I'm not trying hard enough to sell the property.and pigs will fly I'm even more confused now.

 

You must respond otherwise they will get judgment by default and you will have to pay forthwith.If you fail to pay forthwith they will then apply for a Charging Order to secure the debt.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[welshdana]

Hi Andy, thanks for taking the time to look at my problem. I don't have a copy of the agreement I signed, apparently their usual terms and conditions that I had at the first appointment apply. they have emailed me invoices but only as part of enquiries as to asking me about the update of the sale. the solicitor today said that they will give me 14 days notice if they plan to enforce the ccj and will put it in writing. I don't know what to think or do. there's no point in them doing any of this. they can't get a charging order because the house is in my ex husbands sole name. I'm terribly afraid.

[AndyOrch]

Are they aware that you dont have joint ownership? They could go Attachment of Earnings if you are in employment to execute the CCJ.

 

Andy

[welshdana]

my income is too low to gain them more than a few pounds a week. I can't just ignore the form and hope for the best. I need to protect my ability to buy or rent when this is all over. I don't know what to put on the form...I freely admit I owe them money but the circumstances that trigger the repayment hasnt occurred. what can I put on the form to explain it?

[AndyOrch]

You must follow the time line then as posted in#6 by CB.First you acknowledge service...this can be done on-line using the password on the summons once you have registered for the service.Defend all and work out your date for the submission of defence.

In the meantime you can request information and documentation referred to in their Particulars (CPR31.14 for docs & CPR18 for information) This is a legal request which they must respond to...so if there is anything about the verbal agreement then this could flush it out.

 

Don't worry about what you have to write in your defence to the claim for now we can draft a suitable response nearer the time just concentrate on the above two points for now.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[citizenB]

Hi Andy, thanks for taking the time to look at my problem. I don't have a copy of the agreement I signed, apparently their usual terms and conditions that I had at the first appointment apply. they have emailed me invoices but only as part of enquiries as to asking me about the update of the sale. the solicitor today said that they will give me 14 days notice if they plan to enforce the ccj and will put it in writing. I don't know what to think or do. there's no point in them doing any of this. they can't get a charging order because the house is in my ex husbands sole name. I'm terribly afraid.

 

I typed this in this morning but I couldn't have posted properly.

1. the claimant provided professional services to the defendant at the defendants request. The claimant subsequently invoiced the defendant for those services and invoices totalling the sum of £**** remain unpaid. details of which are contained in the attached document.

2. The claimant has written to the defendant on several occassions requesting payment of the balance due.

3. The claimant is also entitled to and claims interest from the date payment fell due until payment at the rate of 4.5% per annum persuant to section 69 of the county court act 1984. As at 7 december 2012.

the claimant claims, payment, interest and costs.

 

I spoke to the solicitors firm today who are taking me to court they said not to bother to respond to the court forms. as far as they are concerned the agreement to pay out of the proceeds of sale still stand. They won't enforce the order unless I fail to keep them updated or show I'm not trying hard enough to sell the property. I'm even more confused now.

 

I am very concerned indeed that they have suggested that you ignore the court forms and this should be mentioned in any defence that you submit.

 

From what has been declared on the particulars of claim, I think you can ask for and expect to receive..

 

Copies of these letters that they say they sent - with appropriate proof of posting

Copies of the invoices

Copy of the agreement that was signed by you.

 

 

andy, would the usual CPR31.14 be suitable for this situation ?

[citizenB]

And will you please stop contacting the solicitor by phone.. you need to keep everything in writing - even if it is email - in order to have paperwork to back up what has been said !

[AndyOrch]

31.14 to get the docs referred to CB point 2 of the P.o.C..... CPR 18 for info on this verbal agreement.Dana recalls signing something:-

 

" I definitely signed something about payment after the sale of the house before the court final hearing in September 2010 but they wont give me a copy."

 

Regards

 

Andy

[citizenB]

Thanks andy.. will go and find something for her to send..

[citizenB]

Your CPR letter requesting items that are mentioned in the particulars of claim. Either post recorded (and keep the proof of posting slip) Or hand deliver and obtain a receipt from the receptionist.

 

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was refused.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2: Copies of all invoices (delete if these have been provided)

 

3: Copies of all letters, as mentioned in the Particulars of Claim.

 

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request.

 

'In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that, in accordance with cpr rule 15.5, you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence to xx/xx/xx (insert a specific date up to 28 days from the original defence deadline), and it is expected that you will comply with my reasonable request for documents requested 14 days prior to this date/by xx/xx/xx.........'

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[welshdana]

Oh than you so much, I will do this right away.

[AndyOrch]

Have you got a suitable version of CPR 18 to use in this matter CB?

[citizenB]

This request is for information only, depending on the response is whether you can then seek copies of any documents.

Perhaps andyorch could confirm that this is correct before printing and sending. Again, it needs to be sent via Recorded delivery and or hand delivered obtaining a receipt BEFORE you hand it over ! I am not sure whether you need to sign this one or not !!

 

Your Name

Your Address

IN THE XXXXXXXXX county court CLAIM NO:

BETWEEN:

Solicitor Firm

Claimant

and

welshdana

Defendant

PART 18 REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

To: XXXXXXXXXX (claimant)

　

Please answer the following questions:

1: Please confirm you have in your possession, a signed copy of the agreement you claim exists between us, and if so,

2: Please provide your reasons for refusing to provide a copy to me.

3: Please confirm that all conversations betwen us regarding this matter have either been recorded or notes taken and will these be available for the court.

　

　

TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST

WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU

[citizenB]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ above.. can you please confirm the information requested is accurate..

 

 

Have you got a suitable version of CPR 18 to use in this matter CB?

[AndyOrch]

Your Name

Your Address

 

IN THE XXXXXXXXX county court CLAIM NO:

 

BETWEEN:

Solicitor Firm

Claimant

 

and

 

welshdana

Defendant

 

CPR 18 REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

 

 

 

To: XXXXXXXXXX (claimant)

　

Please provide information/answer the following questions:

 

1: Please confirm you have in your possession, a signed copy of the agreement/ engagement letter you claim exists between us, and confirm when it was provided to me and if so,

 

 

2: Please provide your reasons for refusing to provide a copy to me.

 

 

3: Please confirm that all conversations betwen us regarding this matter have either been recorded or notes taken and will these be available for the court. Particularly the conversation of the 2nd January 2013 with Mr /Mrs/Mss xxxxxxxxx with regards to me not responding to the claim issued and your intention not to request judgment.

 

　

　

TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU. (remove caps)Failure to respond will be followed by an application under CPR18.1 to request an order for disclosure of the above information.

 

Signature/dated

 

[citizenB]

Thank you..

 

 

 

welshdana.. please use the amended CPR 18 in post 22..

[steampowered]

You won't have a credit agreement. However, you should have an engagement letter which should set out the fee arrangements and provides for interest on unpaid amounts. It would be extremely unusual for a solicitor not to provide this and it is a regulatory requirement for solicitors to provide certain information in writing. Assuming this document exists it will be very hard to go against it by claiming you reached a different verbal agreement. I would explicitly ask for the engagement letter in your letter seeking disclosure.

 

They say they have provided you with multiple invoices. Is this true? If so, the invoices should clearly state information about the complaints process. The easiest way to sort these things is to make a complaint and escalate to the Legal Ombudsman if necessary. The Legal Ombudsman is quite pro-consumer. If you just ignored the invoices then you have probably missed the timescales for making a complaint.

 

I spoke to the solicitors firm today who are taking me to court they said not to bother to respond to the court forms. as far as they are concerned the agreement to pay out of the proceeds of sale still stand. They won't enforce the order unless I fail to keep them updated or show I'm not trying hard enough to sell the property. I'm even more confused now.

 

If you don't defend proceedings they will get a court order against you requiring you to pay the money. Their POC makes no mention of the "proceeds of sale" bit, if they didn't enforce an order until you have the proceeds of sale that would be based on their good will. I have to say that I think advising you to deal with this litigation in a way that is very one-sided to the solicitor is a breach of the Solicitors' Code of Coduct. There is a conflict of interest here between the solicitor and then client, they should not be telling you how to deal with this litigation and should be advising you to seek independent legal advice. Perhaps worth making a complaint to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

[citizenB]

Steampowered.. would you advise amending the "agreement" to letter of engagement, then ?