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UKPC issuing PCN's on OUR PRIVATE BUSINESS LAND without a contract - off to court - UKPC liable for trespass - **SUCCESS**


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congratulations Roger what an outstanding success! I'm in a similar situation in that my car has been ticked twice for not displaying a valid permit even thought the car parking space is my private freehold within the estate. Would you mind sharing the specifics of your claim as I am currently only ignoring their tickets and letters and getting frustrated with it all.

I did raise this issue with the management agents and the management company but they are all off the opinion ukpc are great, and have subsequently discovered that 80% of the estate is let so the other freehold owners arent interested in kicking ukpc out.

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This is very pleasing. Well done in going about it the right way - seeking the undertaking first and not jumping straight to court. That was vital. If they attach anything to any vehicle parked on your land, or merely enter your land then please do post back :)

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If some people have been conned into paying them, maybe it is time for them to ask for their money back.

 

Difficult.

They would actually be asking for the return of a legally unenforceable 'debt' payment made as a donation!

 

Although duress under threats that are not legally sustainable might be an avenue.

 

But my guess is the PPCs keep their Limited Companies' cash/assets low (by transferring them as Directors Fees, Bonuses, Dividends, etc) to avoid them being there for an Administrator/Liquidator to seize on appointment.

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  • 1 month later...
Difficult.

But my guess is the PPCs keep their Limited Companies' cash/assets low (by transferring them as Directors Fees, Bonuses, Dividends, etc) to avoid them being there for an Administrator/Liquidator to seize on appointment.

 

They could by bonus and salary payments, but dividends would have to be repaid by the directors if the company wasn't profitable.

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  • 1 year later...
Update :

We pressed on with our County Court Claim against UK Parking control Limited

( UKPC ) in the Winchester County Court.

On 21.1.2013 UKPC in an Order by consent gave undertakings to the Court not to enter our land and not to place any Parking Charge Notices on our cars and the Court ordered:

1. Judgment for the Claimants ( ourselves )

2. Damages for trespass in a total of £150.00

3. UKPC to pay our costs in the sum of £ 1280.26 ( now paid )

R.L.Davey

 

Well Done!

 

Would it be possible to get the case reference number so that I can obtain a copy of the judgement?

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congratulations Roger what an outstanding success! I'm in a similar situation in that my car has been ticked twice for not displaying a valid permit even thought the car parking space is my private freehold within the estate. Would you mind sharing the specifics of your claim as I am currently only ignoring their tickets and letters and getting frustrated with it all.

I did raise this issue with the management agents and the management company but they are all off the opinion ukpc are great, and have subsequently discovered that 80% of the estate is let so the other freehold owners arent interested in kicking ukpc out.

 

Any luck with using Roger's judgement against UKPC to stop them intruding into your estate?

 

I'm hoping to try and use to convince S&S estates property management to do the same in Manchester.

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  • 1 year later...

I would be very grateful if you would consider letting me have the case reference and copy of judgment for your case against UKCPS where you successfully sued them for trespass.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKCPS-liable-for-trespass-

 

 

This is for the Supreme Court case of ParkingEye v Beavis, where rather unusually extra written arguments have been allowed after the hearing. There is a very tight deadline on this.

 

My email is [email protected]

 

 

If you require me to prove I am part of the Beavis defence team, I am more than happy to do whatever it needs.

 

Regards

 

PS. I do not have a high enough post count to PM Mr Davey. If someone readin gthis could do the PM and then post here to say, 'done' I would be grateful.

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Have asked CAG site team to see what they can do. Wait for a response when they are able.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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I have emailed the OP for you. We'll see if he responds. However, it is probably a remote chance as he hasn't been on the forum for well over a year

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I've had a response

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  • 1 month later...
Update :

We pressed on with our County Court Claim against UK Parking control Limited

( UKPC ) in the Winchester County Court.

On 21.1.2013 UKPC in an Order by consent gave undertakings to the Court not to enter our land and not to place any Parking Charge Notices on our cars and the Court ordered:

1. Judgment for the Claimants ( ourselves )

2. Damages for trespass in a total of £150.00

3. UKPC to pay our costs in the sum of £ 1280.26 ( now paid )

R.L.Davey

 

I know this is well past the sell by date but as it's a victory others may like to use themselves, might I also point out that the ticketing of people on land that the PPC has no rights to, is also demanding money by menaces, or one of fraud. Both Criminal offences.

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this is about a person who owned his parking space on a development and the parking co had an agreement with the management co that is worthless because they had no right to make the arrangement. It is not relevant to car parking where the public are invited to enter under terms set by the parking co however, it is relevant to several people wh are currently posting up problems in residential developments

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this is about a person who owned his parking space on a development and the parking co had an agreement with the management co that is worthless because they had no right to make the arrangement. It is not relevant to car parking where the public are invited to enter under terms set by the parking co however, it is relevant to several people wh are currently posting up problems in residential developments

 

I agree entirely. It's not general to other public car parks but for situations such as ticketed in your own leased car space as was the case for the actual topic anyway.

As an aside, I know that some PPC's ticket visitors to people who use that persons car parking space allocated by lease arrangements. That is nothing to do with the visitor's peaceful enjoyment but is a criminal act aimed at the visitor which is fraudulently representing that the PPC had rights to the land.

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  • 8 months later...

Hi all

 

I know this is an old thread but it is very relevant to my own current situation and I would love to hear from the OP about a specific question I have but I am new to the forum and cannot PM him directly.

 

Below is a copy of the PM I wished to send him. If anyone thinks they can answer my question or possibly PM the OP, that would be MUCH appreciated. I have already posted to this forum on my issue and received valuable advice. I am now specifically seeking advice on an issue that I see as a possible sticking point as set out below.

 

_____

 

I have read with great interest (and admiration) of your successful battle with a private parking company who illegally imposed a parking charge on your vehicle parked at your residence.

 

I am currently in a very similar situation and would welcome your advice. Specifically, we are leaseholders (owner occupiers) of an apartment in London. As I understood your note (perhaps incorrectly) you own the property freehold. Is that correct? Will that make a difference in your view?

 

In our case, the purchase price included the exclusive right, as set out in the lease, to park one private vehicle in a parking space of the building.

 

The lease further requires the leaseholder to “comply with all reasonable regulations which the Landlord may from time to time make and publish for the detailed administration of the building".

 

The property manager, acting on behalf of the landlord, has instituted a regulation that requires all cars to display a permit. Failure to display the permit, or (as in our case) displaying a permit which had expired by two weeks, results in a private parking charge being imposed by a private parking company (ParkDirectUK) employed by the landlord.

 

We recently received several private parking charges totalling £500 (5 x £100) when we left our vehicle in our authorised car space but without an up-to-date permit as we were out of the country on holidays. During our absence, the requirement for a new permit was advised to all leaseholders through a rote note in our letterboxes (to which we did not have access as we were out of the country).

 

In my rush to get this sorted out, I appealed to POPLA only to discover after more extensive reading that I hadn’t really followed the format that they expect. As a result, I didn’t consider it likely that they would uphold my appeal and I agreed to pay the parking company an ‘admin fee’ of £120 on the basis that I would remove my appeal immediately. I am not now looking for a way to avoid this particular charge as I accept that it is settled More importantly to me, I am looking to how this can be dealt with in the future should a similar situation arise.

 

What do you think? Is your situation markedly different from ours? I want to be able to go back to our landlords and quote your case to them in the hope that they will change their awful system which unfairly targets people who have purchased their parking space when they purchased the property.

 

Hope someone can help.

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It seems advisable to contact the landlord with the requirement that he instructs ParkDirectUK to deal sensibly with the situation. PDU should not have exclusive rights to decide the rules that are instituted for the benefit of the landowner and you the leaseholder. It seems satisfactory that the charge was imposed in the first instance but not that it was persisted with on discovery of the facts. The sole proper purpose of the rules is to prevent abuse of the parking privilege/right which did not occur.

 

In particular, do the rules say that a charge is imposable each day or just for the (single) occurrence? if it's ambiguous then it falls to be applicable to the one event in your favour and not five. If the rule is vague then it might be possible for several NtDs be issued on one day making it a licence to print money and a misuse of the landlord's intention. Needs checking and the intervention of the landlord. I regret having nothing better to offer.

feakdesl

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Thank you for your response, it is very useful.

 

In our case, we elected to pay the 'admin fee', notwithstanding that we thought an appeal to POPLA would be successful, because we did not want to continue receiving demand messages whilst we were out of the country which we often are for months at a time.

 

We had numerous written conversations with the property manager about this issue, asking him politely to have the parking charge notices cancelled given the obvious absurdity of the situation. The property managers was not prepared to become involved, arguing that it had nothing to do with them.

 

Right now, our main objective is to try and talk some sense into our property manager so that these sorts of situations cannot arise again. We have suggested alternative approaches to him including the issuing of a permit in perpetuity for leaseholders of the property but they will not consider it as an option, continually arguing that they cannot do anything related to the parking. They have effectively washed their hands of the problem.

 

Any advice that might help us deal with the property manager would be welcomed. We don't want to establish an antagonistic relationship with them but nor can we accept their idiotic approach to this issue. The Davey v UKPC case might be a good starting point, if I can establish that it is a good precedent for our situation. My major concern in that regard is that I had the impression that Mr Davey was a freehold owner of the land on which he was parking whereas in our case we are leaseholders and do not 'the land.

 

Any and all advice would be welcomed.

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Firstly check your title deeds to see where it states you have to display a permit to park on the premises. Secondly claim back the money you have already paid them as you have been well and truly conned even if it means using small claims court as you can claim back costs.

Start the ball rolling with a written letter to whom you paid the money. If no response, then move to the next step which is to issue summons to a small claims court. Others may be able to offer better advice.

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Thank you for your advice. To answer your specific question:

 

Our lease gives us "the exclusive right to park one private motor car in each such parking space..."

 

The lease also requires us "to comply with all reasonable regulations which the landlord may make and publish in respect of the use of car parking spaces within the Parking Area".

 

There is no specific reference to permits or the use of parking companies to monitor the parking.

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I am still very interested in the two specific questions I asked if anyone has any views:

 

(1) In the Davey v UKPC case, is it known if Mr Davey was a freeholder or leaseholder of his property? Does it make any difference?

 

(2) Any suggestions on how we might deal with our recalcitrant property manager?

 

Thanks

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I am still very interested in the two specific questions I asked if anyone has any views:

 

(1) In the Davey v UKPC case, is it known if Mr Davey was a freeholder or leaseholder of his property? Does it make any difference?

 

(2) Any suggestions on how we might deal with our recalcitrant property manager?

 

Thanks

A court summons will wake up a recalcitrant manager. BTW what can they the PPC do if you just ignore them as they will look very foolish trying to take it to court as you as the landlord of your property and they are not acting with your permission assuming you never gave them permission.

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there is a similarity between yours and the Davey case and that is you have allocated parking so essentially it is part of the lease and thus sacrosanct. Furthermore the parking co were brought in by the managing agents, not the freeholder so they can never create a contract that is binding on you.

The idea that an admin fee is payable for appealing is laughable, it is a bt like saying that I will sue you if you make a complaint to the police about my criminal activity.

 

I would abandon any hope of getting any sense out of the property managers, they employed these bandits and get the kickback for doing so so they have a vested interest in ignoring your complaint and damaging any action you would then otherwise take. The point about this is that any contract between the managing agent and the parking co is null and void, only the landowner can make such a contract and even tehn it wouldnt apply to your parking space, just the general curtilage or demesne.

 

the terms in the lease are fairly vague but they are NOT changable or negotiable by the managing agents. The landlord doesnt have the right to allow the managing agents to change or create any rules, just apply them.

 

What to do? well you tell the parking co that you areent paying them a penny, either as a charge or their admin fee. The latter is undoubtedly an unfair term to the condition of the appeals process which is set out in law so they wont sue tyou because they wouldnt dare show their faces in court. TELL them that you arent playing their game and that the parking space is yours and they are trespassing when they touch your vehicle and you will sue them as per Davey if they persist.

 

The main thing here is to stop trying to be nice, neither the managing agent or the parking co deserve nice. Let the agents know that you will be considering holding a leaseholders meeting with the express function of sacking them for acting beyond their powers ( difficult if a lot of buy to lets on the development but as long as half of the dwellings are owner occupied you can pull it off.)

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.
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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPC issuing PCN's on OUR PRIVATE BUSINESS LAND without a contract - off to court - UKPC liable for trespass - **SUCCESS**
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