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This is a long story

so I won't bore anyone with the whole thing of N Power closing and reopening my electricity account

then deciding that they/I had read the meter wrong for four years.

 

I had a new electricity meter fitted in Jan 2009 and I am on a spreading warmth tariff paying quarterly.

 

Before all the stupidity in Aug 2011 when scottish power tried to take us over and N power closed the account everything was fine but

 

in February 2012 N Power decided with a new account number that my meter reading must be wrong

and that I must be using enough electricity to light up Blackpool as I received a bill for £2,740

informing me that in a year my average annual bill amounted to £26,500:|.

 

As it is a new meter there were zeros in front of the reading which you must always give when giving the first five numbers.

 

They are now ignoring that and say we were being billed on a four digit reading which was wrong.

 

They sent someone out in April 2011 who fiddled around with the meter and somehow the decimal point disappeared!

 

Also it seems now that they were checking what sort of house I lived in?

They then decided to fit a check meter (July) as it seemed I was still lighting up the local town.

 

On their calculations and what my meter says now that would mean I would have used 16000 units in a year?? I cook and heat by gas.

 

I have rung on many occasions to speak to the service people on how to read the meter

and they are curious as to why my digital meter has lost its decimal point

but they say that it is still only the first five digits and to ignore any numbers after the first five and to include any zeros

which would mean my meter reads at the moment 06400 not 64000 as N Power are trying to insist.

 

I am at my wits end with them.

 

I have even rung the makers of the meter who say it is the first five digits including any zeros.

 

I complained to the energy ombudsman

- even sending hourly photos of my meter with the last digit moving round and showing the first zero.

 

Incredibly he said N Power were right???

What??

 

The average household is supposed to use 3,300. per annum.

That is now going to an "ombudsman" for the ombudsman??

 

as I did not agree with the first ombudsman.

 

Anyone had a similar problem??

 

Oh ps. I also received a letter regarding a bill for a property in Sheffield???

 

I live in East Sussex and do not own a property in sheffield.

 

The ombudsman said that this wasn't incompetent at all.

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I have been having a problem with N Power. I have a six digit digital meter that I have had from new in 2009 with a start meter reading of 000000. The meter readings were fine until Scottish power tried to take us over and N Power closed our account in Aug 2011.

 

When I told them I was not going to Scottish Power they said that they would have to give me a new account number as they had closed the old one. After this it all went pear shaped as they suddenly could not read the meter properly and left off the first digit which is a 0 and put in the last five rather than the other way round which is the first five digits including any 0s and leave off the last digit. This amounted to me receiving a bill for £3,000 plus. After complaining they said okay its not £3,000 its £2,800. then £1,800. and said I was using over twenty thousand units per year. What???? I went through the proper channels but they would not re-calculate the bill still insisting that it was correct.

 

I made a complaint to the ombudsman (what a waste of time they are.) I sent all my old bills and showed how their new bills did not make any sense and how could I be using that much electricity – enough to power my village!!! I have rung N Power several times to make sure I was reading my meter correctly – I have checked with the meter reader who told me to make sure that N Power included the first 0 in their calculations. I did make an appeal to the ombudsman but they still agreed with N Power. I remembered the good advice I have learned on this site and made a SAR Request - thank you guys. It took 8 months for the ombudsman to do this and the reply makes no sense at all.

 

I think N Power know and have acted illegally as I have looked further into all the transcripts/old bills and when Scottish Power tried to take us over in 2011 instead of next door and then when they were told we were not going with them Scottish Power sent a final reading of next doors meter to N Power this being 39431 dated 25th August 2011 and again on another bill it states a reading of 03759 (our meter) on the same date.

 

Then on some of their transcripts it states on the 5/09/11 "ET Mitigation Team - Account billed and next bill date amended to align with billing cycle. Letter sent to advise" In other words they have not looked back at my old bills with actual readings of four digits (leaving the 0 off) not investigated but deliberately chose to align it with the bigger (huge reading) which is why I had a bill for nearly £3,000 after quarterly bills of around £170 - so I would recommend anyone having problems with N Power's billing to send the £10 for the Subject Access as I would have never found this and N Power would have carried on with this cheating lie. I am considering taking this to the small claims court and ask for compensation as this has caused no end of worry but can I do this when they still haven’t sorted this out?

 

I have received a letter today from N Power saying that they consider the matter closed as the Ombudsman said they were right – What??? I have a file nearly 6inches thick and I really do not know what to do now.

 

Help??

:mad2:

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Hi Plucked, it sounds like the issue here as you outline is that there is some sort of discrepancy with the closing and opening meter readings when the erroneous transfer (ET) happened.

 

I know you've done a lot of work already, but have you plotted down all of the meter reads they have received?

 

in your position I would do this, highlighting the closing and opening reads from the ET (NPower should have had these on a D86 flow from SPower). It might also be worth asking SPower for a SAR and the details of any charges they wrote off. With an ET the withdrawing supplier (in your case SP) should be nil-billing their account and returning the supply to the original supplier on the same read.

 

From what I gather NPower have billed you round the clock of the meter rather than to the process above

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Tim

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Thank you for a quick reply nottslad. The problem also has arisen due to three properties all with the same number but my property has a name. I was never with Scottish Power the property next door was empty for over a year and when the new people moved in they obviously asked Scottish Power to supply them. N Power assumed that I was going with Scottish Power and the first I heard was "Sorry you are leaving us" but this was the neighbouring property's meter reading that Scottish Power obviously sent to N Power who assumed (stupidly) that it was my meter reading as I was not leaving them (confusing or what). This is obviously the confusion that N Power will not accept that the big reading is from an old meter as opposed to my reading from a meter I had from new. How do you mean "round the clock of the meter"? Looking at my old meter readings before the new account number they all seem pretty much in line with each other.

 

Many thanks for your input - hope you can make sense of what has happened cos I can't.

 

Kind regards,

 

P.C.

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morning, wasn't around much yesterday!

 

are the properties recently new builds? It sounds to me as if this could be what is known as a crossed-meter, where the wrong meter details are registered to the wrong property.

 

re the 'round the clock' if you imagine a milometer on a car, it will start at 0000 as your meter did. It will then show 9999 before going back to say 0002, this would show a massive usage, hence the large bill from NPower

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Hi

 

No the properties aren't new build. Twenty years or so ago the three properties were one. My house being the main one (built approx 1450) a bungalow one side built about 1990 and the Coach House the other side same age as mine. The problem being they all have the same number but I have never used the number just the house name. The bungalow doesn't either and The Coach House is not under the number either. What I cannot understand is why N Power cannot look at my old account number and look at my usage and then look at the new account number as to how ridiculous the usage is. When I rang to say this one customer services person said I would have to be running several heated swimming pools, aquatic tanks, electric central heating 24 hours a day. They said that is the usage of a small factory??

 

They keep trying to say that it is because I have a 6 digit digital meter. The meter readers have said "don't let them get away with not using the first 0 otherwise the meter readings move along and it will be a ridiculous bill" and that "once they bill you they find it difficult to get it right. " ()

 

The fact that in the SAR documents one reading for the meter was 39431 on 25/08/11 and another reading on the same day registered as 03759 and on their notes it states that on the 6th Sept bill was brought in line with the first reading of 39431 which is next door's meter reading why oh why can they not see the mistake!!! Aghh

 

Regards PC

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Oh dear this is a right mess, and it clearly comes from this erroneous transfer and the incorrect meter reads at that time.

 

Have you escalated this to the CEO?

 

You've explained it clear enough for me to understand and this isn't a particularly strong area of mine!

 

As the Ombudsman have already concluded your only option may be to take this matter to court. It's pretty clear that they're in the wrong but it's not an easy argument to articulate :|

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me personally,In the circumstances I would just let them take me to court,let them make a fool of themselves and eventually your meter will be understood,you might get compensation for the aggravation as well!

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N Power Help!

 

I came on the forum last year with my problem with N Power

 

who closed my original account as they had an erroneous reading that was not in line

with my previous correct reads when Scottish Power tried to take us over in August 2011.

 

Two reads were taken on the same day one from my meter and one from somewhere else.

 

Did get a letter from N Power saying that they had a closing read from Scottish Power

but it was regarding a house in Sheffield??? I live in East Sussex.

 

It was a new meter in 2009 so up until 2011 everything was okay with average bills.

 

We are low users as heat with gas and cook with gas.

 

There is only three of us in the house and only one during the day.

 

I now have bills which say I will use 233,000 kWh in a year,

some which say 3,300 kWh per year,

some which say 23,000 kWh per year

I have added up and kept a close eye on my meter a

nd I worked out it is more like 2,300 - 3000 kWh per year.

 

I have been fighting with them since April 2012 when they sent me a bill for £1,303.

 

saying that they had misbilled me and had been billing me on a 4 digit reading instead of a 5.

 

My first bill on the new meter (April 2009) was an Actual read of 01229 for the first winter quarter

- now if what they are saying is right for that first winter quarter they are indicating

I would have used 12,290 kWh from December 08 to April 09????

(four times the national average household uses in a year.)

 

I went to the ombudsman

- waste of time as they said that if N Power said I was using 54kWh per day

then they must be right as 5 kWh per day was too low so they picked the higher amount??

 

Now they have sent a threatening letter from their legal department

with a demand for £6,000 and I insist I set up a payment plan for £360 per month.

 

If I don't admit the debt and set up this payment plan they will commence Court proceedings,

enter my property and install a prepayment meter with the £6,000 debt on it. I am on pension credit.

This has made me very ill and I don't quite know what to do now.

I have told them that I will not pay for electricity that I have not used.

 

Tried Small Claims Court but the Judge dismissed the case as I had no independent proof.

N Power sent a Barrister and all they had was the Ombudsman's letter

which the Judge seized on as he obviously did not read my Particulars of Claim etc

.(to be fair my evidence was about 80 pages long)

He said he did'nt know how all this electricity business worked.

 

He said I would have to wait until they took me to Court for the money and counter claim in my defence.

After that I sat in my car and cried for an hour.

 

feel sick constantly with this and it has taken over my life.

Common sense obviously does not prevail here as to use all that electricity in one day

I would have to be lighting up quite a few local houses even one of their advisors

said I would be lighting up Blackpool.

 

I did a "kettle" test with one of their customer service team (really nice sensible man)

whilst on the phone I had to turn off all electrical appliances,

take a meter read,

boil the kettle,

then take another read.

 

This read that my kettle had taken 0.2 units.

He said that was about right and he would rectify the error.

 

n.Power said that was wrong and the test had used 2 units

- in their latest bills it states you can have NINE kettle boils for 1 unit?

 

I have not been able to contact this kind sensible person since.

 

Anyone got any ideas where I go from here????

 

Where can one get an independent to advise on the meter reads?

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I'm not to sure what to suggest here because you have brought you action it has been dismissed. However, did you get any help putting this claim together? Could we have sight of your particulars of claim please.

 

Where do you stand with this now? Are they still making these errors?

 

I suppose that you never recorded any of your telephone calls. I think that you should consider getting a telephone recorder immediately and start building some better evidence of the conversations. We would suggest getting a Truecall but if you can't afford that then an Olympus TP 8 and a digital recorder will do the job.


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Hi Bank Fodder,

 

Many thanks for the reply. They are now taking me to Court for nearly £6,000 - at the same time I have had threatening letters from Richburns and Collections Direct WARRANT OF ENTRY INTO YOUR HOME despite this going to Court. I am paying an amount monthly calculated on what I consider my usage plus the £140 I get from the government. They said they were putting a stop to these letters and when I phoned (I recorded those on my iMac they said "I am stopping it as I speak to you now" they lied as I again received letters one addressed to The Occupier and one addressed to me with a date for a magistrates court on the 17/11/14. Have attached my P of C - have removed all account numbers and addresses.

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

Claimant:

 

Defendant: N Power.

 

 

 

 

Re: Electricity Account: First Account: ………………..

Changed account number: ………………….

Account Number: not recognized (on some correspondence)

 

Electricity supplied at: …………………………….

 

 

1. I have a six digit digital meter that I have had from new in 2009 with a start meter reading of 0. The meter readings were fine until Scottish Power got our address mixed up with next-door and tried to take us over and N Power closed our account in Aug 2011.

 

2. On the 6/07/11 - I received a letter informing me that we were being taken over by Scottish Power. As this had been the third occasion we had been taken over without our knowledge or consent I rang N Power who said it was not a problem and that they would put a stop on it. ………………….., Bungalow next door, is also number….and they had just moved in and requested that Scottish Power supply their electricity which is obviously where the mistake occurred. (there are three properties with the number ……….. Road same postcode…….).

3. N Power informed me on the 26th August, 2011 that I would have to have a new account number despite N Power writing to me saying they were having difficulty closing my account? I believe the difficulty in closing the account was due to the huge discrepancy between the readings of next doors meter and my meter. 25/08/2011 – attached transcript (marked (i), received under a SAR N Power meter information from Scottish Power.

4. On the Document marked (ii) the Actual reading is given as 39431 on the 25/08/11. This reading bears no correlation to our previous reads whatsoever and this read is from 93 London Road (Bungalow next door) as this was the property that Scottish Power assumed they were taking over but when they put in the postcode it came up with my name.

5. On the Document marked (iii) the Actual reading is given as 3759 taken as 03759 by the Data Collector also dated 25/08/11. This reading is from my meter. The Data Collection operative informed us of the read adding that we were to be sure that N Power took the first zero digit otherwise it would result in wrong billing.

6. I also received a letter from N Power with reference to Scottish Power regarding an address in Sheffield. I presume, therefore, that the letter I should have received went to that address?

Document (iv)

N Power staff took it upon themselves not to investigate thoroughly when the readings did not match up but to align it with the longer five-digit reading from the meter next door and have continued to do so for two years.

They also took it upon themselves to come to this conclusion not by asking what electric items I used but to look up on Mouseprice as to what my property was. This is not the way you expect a large organisation to behave. (Document (v)

I dispute the test meter findings as, again, the meter is being read wrongly. I have spoken to the makers of the meter and they agree with most of the customer service meter section at N Power that you read the first five digits including any zeros and take off the last digit. (See Document (vi)

I received a letter from N Power informing me of what they considered a mistake in billing when, in fact, it was a mistake in the reading of 39431 taken from next door’s meter (or maybe the one in Sheffield?) (See document (vii)

The test done my Mr. Mike Todd in customer services, when he asked me to take a reading then boil the kettle and take another reading, was consistent with the meter using the five digits including the 0 and leaving the last digit. (See Document (viii)

My average consumption is 650 to 800 units per quarter (see previous bills marked (ix). Approximately 3200 a year which is near to the average as I have gas central heating and cook by gas. Energy saving bulbs.

Despite many phone calls and discussions with N Power. N Power still insisted on using the erroneous read sent to them by Scottish Power as a closing read on …………Road…………………… next door. (see document xi)

It would be extremely difficult for a domestic meter to run up nearly 80,000 units in four years? That was our whole consumption for over 15 years on my prepayment meter. Also my consumption will have dropped since the prepayment meter as there are less people in the house now and my appliances are newer and more energy efficient.

From N Power I am claiming:-

(a) I would like N Power replace the meter so that we can start again as this seems the most sensible and obvious solution, as recommended by The Ombudsman.

(b) Close the present account and clear it of all debt so I can transfer to another energy supplier.

© I also wish to claim the maximum compensation of up to £10,000 for all the distress that this has caused me over the last three years by way of the Defendants negligence and incompetence in dealing with the complaint and by way of the Defendants misleading of the Ombudsman by giving false information regarding meter readings.

Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against N Power.

Document (i)

Copy of transcript received under a SAR N Power meter reading from Scottish power.

Document (ii)

Copy of Bill showing the erroneous reading from next door dated 25/8/11. Actual Reading.

Document (iii)

Copy of Bill showing another Actual reading from my meter dated 25/8/11.

Document (iv)

Copy of letter sent regarding Scottish Power addressed to a property in Sheffield.

Document (v)

Copy of transcript from N Power showing their decision to align the longer meter reading and manually changing the meter reading. Transcripts from my SAR Request stating that the bill was being amended to come in line with the 5-digit number from next door. Transcript of N Power staff giving their own opinions and their own conclusions and acting on them instead of properly checking the data supplied to them by both the Data Collector and myself.

Document (vi)

Transcript from N Power’s notes.

Document (vii)

Letter informing me that N Power was using the 5 digit reading (next door’s meter reading) instead of keeping it in line with my Actual and Estimated readings of 5 INCLUDING THE FIRST 0 resulting in a four digit reading.

Document (viii)

Transcript of conversation with M. Todd regarding “kettle test”. M. Todd’s write up on the Load/Kettle Test.

Document (ix)

N Powers estimate on how much electricity I would use in a year which falls in line with the national average of 3,400 kWh.

Document (x)

First quarterly bill from N Power showing consumption for that quarter.

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If there are three houses all with the same number and postcode, why not add an A,B or C to the end of it, problem solved.

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Thanks for this particulars of claim.

 

I'm very sorry to tell you that I can understand fully why the judge dismissed it. It is almost incomprehensible and also doesn't disclose any cause of action and is not at all the kind of thing that should have been put before the court.

 

I think that the judge was showing an act of kindness by not ordering any costs and also I think that his suggestion to you that you wait until they sue for their money was probably intended to help you – although you may not have thought so at the time.

 

If they sue you for the money, then it will be more likely that there particulars of claim will be properly drafted and well structured and you will then have a better opportunity to answer their points and to produce some coherent arguments.

 

Can I ask if you brought this action on your own – or did you have help doing it?

 

Have Npower actually sued you for the money or are they simply threatening to do so?


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Hi,

Thank you for you swift reply, I had some help from a Barrister who drew up the outlines of the P of C. They are suing me - they put in a claim just after the case in July as I refused to pay £360 per month (that is all of my pension) and they gave me 14 days but went straight ahead anyway before the 14 days were up. It is due to be heard in March/April time. I have put in a defence.

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Well I'm shocked at the poc. I don't think that he did you any favours. Did you pay for it?

 

Please can you post the new claim against you and your defence. Take out the identifiers, of course.


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Hi Have attached NP PofC - the test meter they ran through my meter read 00068.1 they insist it read 000681 which would mean 32 kWh per day (three weeks) House empty during the day. Away on holiday for one of those weeks. The meter guys who took it out gave me the meter read of 00068.1

My PofC cost me £100 for one hour's advice and outline PofC.

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Hi,

 

Forgot to attach my Defence. Not very good but I couldn't afford another £100 advice. (maybe a good thing???) Just had to go with it.:|

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Sorry, but we are unable to read the particulars of claim. Try it yourself and you will see that it is too small to be read. You need to convert it to a PDF file. Your defence is very legible


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What stage are you at, at the moment. They have issued a claim against you - you have submitted a defence, yes ?

 

The following question is for others as I am not sure you would know..

 

Are they permitted to pursue a warrant of entry whilst there is an active court case?


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Thank you.

 

The particulars of claim are completely clear to me and I understand what their position seems to be.

 

I'm afraid that I'm completely confused about your arguments. I think the judge will be as well and you will lose the benefit of any doubt – and any patience.

 

I know that you have tried to explain the matter in your opening post on this thread – but frankly that is not very clear to me either. It is complicated by your references to the first provider and I'm not sure at the moment whether that is very relevant to the fact that in some way Npower have mis-read your meter. I gather at least this much – that the dispute turns on what you say is a misreading of your meter. Is that correct?

 

I really would like you to layout again – bullet pointed and as simple as possible for me – because if I understand it then the judge will.

 

Do you have any photographs? Do you have any comparative bills from other similar properties in the same road? Do you have previous bills which you have been happy with?

 

Have you had any experts who have supported your version? On the basis of Npower's reading of your meter – is there any information on the Internet which refer to the kind of property for which usage of that level might be more normal?


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Hi plucked chick

 

Did you SAR Scottish Power and N Power? What period is the £5,000 plus owed?

 

The amount owed would be the cost of an average household over 3.5 years.


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Hi Bank Fodder, thank you for your comments:-

 

ok: I will give this a go - I will also post my first bill showing the first read plus a stupid one saying I used over 7000 kWh in two weeks.

 

Three properties at our postcode all with same number (changed mine to a name to stop confusion but still the same number)used to be all one property.

 

2008 with British Gas for Electric N Power took us over didn't know until prepayment meter went wrong, charging double for standing charge.

 

Dec 20008 Credit Meter Fitted - starting with 0

March 2009 First Quarterly Bill - estimated on our usage on prepayment 01229.0 £167 Spreading Warmth Tariff

 

Everything ok bills seemed inline with what we had paid on the prepayment, before it went wrong, until in August 2011 received a letter from N Power saying "sorry your leaving us" - new people had moved in next door and had applied to Scottish Power for their electricity and Scottish Power had taken it as my property not next door.

 

Rang N Power in August and they said they would put a stop to it. Looking at N Power's notes (under SAR) they received a "closing read" from Scottish Power of 39431 on 25th August 2011. On the same day (25th August 2011) a reading was taken from my house of 03759.0 (inline with my previous meter reads).

 

2nd September 2011 received a letter from N Power saying they were having problems closing my account. I again rang them to say I don't need my account closing I am still with N Power. They said they would sort it not to worry. Rang again and they gave me a new account number. Did not get another bill until January, which, was still in line with my previous reads although it said it was a closing bill.

 

April 2012 received a bill (with the new account number) for £1,825 and a letter saying they had been reading the meter wrong as four digits instead of five.

Looking at their notes (SAR) they did not investigate just brought all the previous reads inline with the longer read.

 

If this was the case then my first bill of 01229.0 would have read 122900 - your confused??!! This would mean an opening read of twelve thousand kWh. How do you think I feel. On all N Powers "how to read your meter" it states to read the first five numbers and include any preceding 0s.

 

I have a casefull of errors ranging from letters regarding a property in Sheffield to letters regarding my neighbours properties electricity?? I do not know where to go from here it is an absolute nightmare. Everytime I get a customer service representative who agrees with me they get shot down in flames and I cannot get in touch with them again.

 

The latest one on twitter who stated after looking at a photo of my meter "yes you are right it appears that the data collector has been putting down the wrong read" Allelluha I thought, only to find the twitter was taken over by a different name who said he had talked to Executive Complaints and they said not to talk to me???? Its too late at night to think about this anymore. Not that I am sleeping anyway.

 

Good night vienna…

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yes pdf please

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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