LloydsTSB/CCBC

[Frostyman]

Hi Hope you can help,

I have recieved a Claim From from the Bulk Centre In Northampton,

Claimant: Lloyds

Address to send documents: Nelson Guest

Claim details: (which look like it is standard wording fro previous post)

The claim is £xxxx being monies owing to the claimant in respect of a credit agreement between Llloyds Tsb and the defendant under account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The agreement was terminated as the defendant failed to maintain the agreed terms in accordance with the pre action protocols the claimant has attempted to contact the defendant and agree and repayment plan

the defendant has failed to respond or maintain a suitable agreement

and the balance of £xxxx remains due and owing from the defendant to the claimant.

And the claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Court act 1984 at the rate if 8% per annum from 18/12/12 to 21/12/12 totaling £xxxxx and thereafter at a daily rate of 0.81 to date of judgement or sooner.

 

I'm happy to defend the claim as 1, This amount has been to various DCA, which I have asked for a breaked down, but never got a response, then it gets passed to another DCA, I have also asked Lloyds, with no response. 2, the amount is for an overdraft for a current account I opened with them when I was 16, I had an agreed overdraft facility, but then they continued to charge me monthly fees. They would charge me and take me over the limit, then charge the folloeing month for the amount I went over again, this just continued. what defence should I put on the CCBC form? This amount is from 4/5 years ago. I can't agree a repyment plan unless I have the required information, such as 1, a signed agreeement from me 2, a statement with a full breakdown of dates & amounts.

 

who can help?

 

thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'll move your thread to the legal forum, where I think the guys will be able to help. I'll leave a short term redirect here.

 

My best, HB

[AndyOrch]

Hi Frosty and a warm welcome to CAG

 

You have 33 days in total subject to how you wish to proceed.5 deemed served so 28 remaining (14 to Acknowledge Service and a further 14 to submit a defence ..if its your intention to defend.)

 

The PoC is worded carefully to distance itself from the fact that this is an Overdraft.You can request copies of the documentation this claim relies upon by way of the following:-

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 The agreement/ overdraft Facility conformation and Terms and Conditions from that date. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

 

3 Notices of Sums in Arrears under running account credit CCA2006 sec 86C

 

4 Copy Statements of the Current Account to which the amount claim relies upon.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.CPR 15.5

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

Send the above recorded delivery to their Sol's and retain proof of postage.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Frostyman]

Thanks for your assistance Andy,

[Frostyman]

Hi Andy,

So notice served 21st dec + 5, I have also sent letter to court and their Sols and not heared anything back. I will need to file this non-compliance online.

How should I do this and what would be the correct wording for the court to put a say on this or strike it out?

thanks

[Guest]

if you want to apply for a strike out, would need to use form n244. imo, court would be unlikely to strike out straight away re this but never know. at best prob would get an unless order giving claimant more time to furnish any mentioned docs subject to 31.14, and therefore you more time to submit a defence upon receipt, depending on how application is worded. bear in mind this is re an overdraft which didn't require a signed formal written agreement if deemed exempt. but when was the o/d? as o/d's after the consumer credit directives require a form of agreement (from 11/11 i think?). see what andy etc says.

when is your defence deadline?

Edited January 21, 2013 by Ford

[Guest]

'overdrafts were previously exempt from Part V (entry into credit or hire agreements) of the CCA with the exception of section 56 on antecedent negotiations. This was by virtue of section 74(1)(b). The exemption was however subject to conditions specified in a determination by the OFT, including that certain information be provided to the borrower at the time or before the agreement was concluded. Section 74 is amended so that more of the requirements in Part V will now apply to authorised overdrafts and this is no longer dependent on an OFT determination' page 72 etc ccd guide, re 17 and 20 eu directive regs

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?306183-Consumer-Credit-Directive

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/consumer-issues/docs/c/10-1053-consumer-credit-directive-guidance.pdf

Edited January 20, 2013 by Ford

[Frostyman]

Hi,

 

The dead line is Tuesday.

 

I know that you have mention the agreement for the OD, but this was before 11/11, it has been over three years. I'm now with a different back.

 

I have also never recieved a notice from LLoyds to say it was going to be transferred to a debt recovery agent, this is with Wescot.

 

I also don't know if the amount they are saying is correct......to be honest i know it's not, and I can't defend unless I have a statement, showing how this has been totalled,

 

I'm at a I'm not sure what to put on my defence as I simply don't agree with this amount, but how can I defend when they can't produce the documents.

 

I'm at a total loss as what to put, but need to defend this and need to enter this online,

 

starting to panic a bit.

 

Thanks for your help

[Guest]

don't panic, andy etc should be along just now. if not, perhaps give him a shout via pm.

so, either apply for strike out or submit a defence in on time. or both?

as said, if applying for strike out separately would need form n244?

if amount is disputed, without production of certain info to establish correct amount cannot be determined, then could include that in a defence. or application if decide to go for that.

also, re assignment. and compliance with determination?

i think the date re newer o/d's is nov 11. but need to double check on that.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Ford

[citizenB]

Hi Hope you can help,

I have recieved a Claim From from the Bulk Centre In Northampton,

Claimant: Lloyds

Address to send documents: Nelson Guest

Claim details: (which look like it is standard wording fro previous post)

The claim is £xxxx being monies owing to the claimant in respect of a credit agreement between Llloyds Tsb and the defendant under account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The agreement was terminated as the defendant failed to maintain the agreed terms in accordance with the pre action protocols the claimant has attempted to contact the defendant and agree and repayment plan

the defendant has failed to respond or maintain a suitable agreement

and the balance of £xxxx remains due and owing from the defendant to the claimant.

And the claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Court act 1984 at the rate if 8% per annum from 18/12/12 to 21/12/12 totaling £xxxxx and thereafter at a daily rate of 0.81 to date of judgement or sooner.

 

I'm happy to defend the claim as 1, This amount has been to various DCA, which I have asked for a breaked down, but never got a response, then it gets passed to another DCA, I have also asked Lloyds, with no response. 2, the amount is for an overdraft for a current account I opened with them when I was 16, I had an agreed overdraft facility, but then they continued to charge me monthly fees. They would charge me and take me over the limit, then charge the folloeing month for the amount I went over again, this just continued. what defence should I put on the CCBC form? This amount is from 4/5 years ago. I can't agree a repyment plan unless I have the required information, such as 1, a signed agreeement from me 2, a statement with a full breakdown of dates & amounts.

 

who can help?

 

thanks

 

Ok, I think all you do is defend something along the following lines.

 

1: The claim is for a credit agreement - you deny entering into a credit agreement with LTSB

2: No Default Notice has been received as required by s87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

3: No Termination Notice has been received

4: No Letter before Action has been received.

5: You deny any communication received asking you to enter into a repayment plan.

6: You have made a request via CPR31.14 for copies of the documents mentioned in the claim - your request has been ignored

7: The claimant has failed to provide a breakdown of the amount demanded in the claim.

8: In respect of the above, you would request the court orders the Claimant to prove its claim.

 

 

These are just what you should be defending on - you need someone with more experience to shape it up for you. Site team are aware so hold on a while. You have until midnight tomorrow to submit online.

[Frostyman]

thanks for your help

[AndyOrch]

Hi Frosty responding to your PM

 

Here is a defence for Overdraft I drafted for another poster.You can edit it to suit your claim.Post up your final draft and I will square it up for submission tomorrow.

 

 

 

Particulars of Claim (or lack of them)

 

The Defendant (D) held the accounts as listed below with the Claimant ©.

D failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below remain outstanding.

£XXXX.OO (more charges added on)

 

C has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

 

Defence

 

It is admitted that we held an Advantage Gold Account with XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Bank and was opened on or around xxxx xxxx

It is admitted that the account was isolated due to unfair charges applied to the Overdraft

It is denied that we have failed to pay the sums stated, the sum stated consists purely of fees and interest added to the fees and not a debt incurred by ourselves.. It is denied (if it be alleged) that the Claimant has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lincurred by the Claimant by reason of late payment. The incorporation of such fees and interest is penal and unenforceable at law.Which currently equates to £xxxxxxxxxx net of interest and compounded to £xxxxxxxxx

 

Notwithstanding the matters pleaded above, the claimant must under sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974 serve this notice before they can demand payment under a regulated credit agreement.The Claimant has not provided any Notice.

 

The matter is currently being investigated by the fos case number xxxxxxxx and the Solicitors are aware of this.It is therefore refuted that the Claimant has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.It is contended that this defence will be plead using BCOBS as a basis of unfairness.

 

In the circumstances the facts and matters set out in the Particulars of Claim do not give rise to an entitlement to claim any of the relief now sought by the Claimant.The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to £xxxxxxx or to any other relief is denied.

 

 

 

One defence ......check for accuracy and complete the dates.Once happy copy and paste into MCOL and print receipt as proof of submission.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Responding to your PM

 

A few alterations:-

 

If the Claimant is LLoyds then the claim has not been assigned therefore:-

 

" The Debt has been passed onto Wescot/Nelson Guest without receiving any notification from LloydsTSB that this debt was being transferred to this company to pursue. " is not applicable

 

 

 

" I have never entered into an agreed repayment plan with the claimant for the amount owed " The Claimant has never requested I should enter into an agreement and is a complete fabrication within their pleadings.

 

Therefore the Claimant has not complied with Sec III and IV Annex B of the Pre Action Protocol.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Frostyman]

uploaded and sent.....lets see what comes back, thanks Andy

[Frostyman]

recieved this today wescot today

 

Dear Sirs

 

We acknowledge safe receipt, addressed to Nelson Guest requesting documents

1.Agreement

2.The demand/Termination Notice

3.Notice of sum in Arrears

4.Statement of current account

 

WE WOULD FIRSTY REFER TO cpr 31.14 SECIONS (1)(A) 31.14.2 and 31.14.3 which states

 

31.14 (1) A party may inspect a document mentioned in -

(a) a statement of case

 

31.14.2 Docuemnt mentioned

The wroding in the RSC was weather a reference is made to the documents. The CPR wording probably requires a specific identification of the actual documents. The mere mention of a transaction which must have used a particular document is unlikely to suffice; the document itself needs to be mentioned.

 

31.14.3 a statement of case

statement of case includes a claim form, particulars of claim defence pt20 claim.

 

Therefore as inspection is limited to documents mentioned in the statement of case, items 2 to 4 requested falls outside that ambit and thus the only document requests, which is mentioned in the statement of case is the "agreement"

 

With this in mind and the overiding objectives set out in CRP1.1 (1) i can confirm that in accordance with your request we have approached the lender for a copy of the "agreement" and other documents.

 

However have particular regards to CPR 1.1 (1) we will confirm at this early stage all the documents you have requested will not be forthcoming and you should therefore take the necessary action that you believe is apptopriate, as by virtue of carey v hsbc bank plc (2009) your reqest does not actually go towards establishing a defence. You may also wish to take independent legal advice from the solicitor or approach the CAB who should be able to assit your free of charge.

 

it is our opinion that all the infomation you have requested will not be necessary to prove our case. A court will consider the facts and evidence and make a fair and reasonable judgement, which in our opinion will be that the funds claimed are due and owing. you may disagree and it isnt really out place to seconf guess a decision that will be made by the trail judge following the appropriate submission of evidence by both parties.

 

we hope we have set out out position clearly and fairly and would once again encourage you to take independant advice and conly with time limts st by the civil procedure rules

 

should you have and queries, please contact ******* wescot.

[Guest]

as for mentioning and document in general, this case could be useful #66 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?374847-Sigma-claim-form-M-amp-S-CC.-help/page4

but, though they have said that they will in any event try to furnish.

as is an o/d, you'll need to rely on non compliance with the o/d oft determination. not much to do with Carey case?

[AndyOrch]

Insignificant anyway Frosty Defence has been submitted...so they can take as long as they wish...but they will need them to verify their claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Frostyman]

Thanks Chaps for the advice.

 

I have now got a response from the CCBC stating that the claim will be transferred. The claimaint can still make contact with me to resolve the issue, but have 28 days to tell the court that they intend to defend. if they dont a stay will be put on this. Personally I just want them to produce the documents so I can sort this out, but with lack of information........what can you do!

[Frostyman]

Thanks Chaps for the advice.

 

I have now got a response from the CCBC stating that the claim will be transferred. The claimaint can still make contact with me to resolve the issue, but have 28 days to tell the court that they intend to defend. if they dont a stay will be put on this. Personally I just want them to produce the documents so I can sort this out, but with lack of information........what can you do!

 

I have now received the allocation questionnaire, filled this in and ready to send to back to court.

[Frostyman]

Does this mean that the claimant has made contact with the court and are ready to proceed, or is this just standard. If so the 28 days are still counting down for the claimant

[AndyOrch]

Does this mean that the claimant has made contact with the court and are ready to proceed,

 

Yes Frosty