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    • you will also need a copy of the CCJ and the particulars of claim on the claimform as... you'll need the particulars of claim as we don't know the judgement sum nor if post judgemental interest was allowed. did you defend it? did you ignore it? did you not get it?  did you know nothing about it?   its very rare on welcome debt either taken to court by welcome (doubtful in 2013) or a DCA (more likely)  i will suggest the debt was already at £18k before the CCJ so nothing bar court charges were added   please advise  i love bashing welcome and DCA but we can't help until we know our actual target and who did what and when.                
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    • I am sorry not to have responded in time to your thread. I have an awful lot going on.   I am hoping that you still haven't sent off your WS  as I have just seen a copy of Southend Airport  ByeLaws 2020. which will help you no end.     https://d1z15fh6odiy9s.cloudfront.net/files/board-approved-london-southend-airport-byelaws-100220-d14ca659.pdf   If you go to Section 5  the headline reads 5. Prohibited acts on parts of the Airport to which the Road Traffic Enactments do not apply:   In other words the roads on the airport are either governed by the Road Traffic Act or the airport Byelaws- neither of which are classed as relevant land. Therefore PoFA DOES NOT APPLY throughout the airport.   Take a copy for the Court and point out that the VCS WS is somewhat lacking in accuracy. It is inconceivable that VCS have not read the Byelaws since they are operating there.    So looking at their WS it reminds me that a good few years ago it was said about the WSs of  parking companies that they and their lawyers simply do not care about the truth and are content with regularly supplying false information to the courts, happy that they will not produce a witness to defend their porkie pies, and that nothing bad will therefore happen to them.   This practice should stop since were the authors to have to appear in Court and challenged, their perjury would not only be clear to see but it would put a stop to the practice. If they don't turn up in Court they get away with their lies and are able to repeat them ad nauseam. And this WS is full of lies and misdirections -not that you can say in Court they are lies but you can point out where there is contradictions shall we say and let the Judge decide.    The WS says in point 31 that they robustly deny that their sign is prohibitive.    You could point out that  District Justice Glenn  in Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd v Bull & 2 Others (B4GF26K6, 21 April 2016), at the High Wycombe Court said    “If the notice had said no more than if you park on this roadway you agree to pay a charge then it would have been implicit that PCM was saying we will allow you to park on this roadway if you pay £100 and I would agree with Mr Samuels’ first analysis that essentially the £100 was a part of the core consideration for the licence and was not a penalty for breach.   The difficulty is that this notice does not say that at all. This notice is an absolute prohibition against parking at any time, for any period, on the roadway.   It is impossible to construct out of this in any way, either actually or contingently or conditionally, any permission for anyone to park on the roadway.   All this is essentially saying is you must not trespass on the roadway. If you do we are giving ourselves, and we are dressing it up in the form of a contract, the right to charge you a sum of money which really would be damages for trespass, assuming of course that the claimant had any interest in the land in order to proceed in trespass.”   And of course VCS cannot sue for trespass as they are not the landowners.  
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    • Hi @BankFodder
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I don't know the rules but with appointment changes would JCP not have to send a letter about a change of date out of your normal signing day a bit like when you are on the WP? If so surely this is grounds for an appeal?

 

Saying that, I am a person who is organised and without sounding patronising surely this new date and time should have been noted in your diary, calendar etc? A harsh lesson learnt I feel

 

 

The Job Centre didn’t send any letter through the post, but they did print out my new Tuesday appointment and handed me a copy when I signed on at the jobcentre.

I took this A4 piece of paper home with me and stored it with all my other paperwork.

 

At first, I probably remembered my new appointment date being changed from Wednesday to Tuesday, but accidentally forgot as I came closer to my next as sign on day.

Sadly, I must have taken a default position in my head and assumed it was the usual Wednesday.

This is a mistake that any normal human being could make!

 

However, I do have ADHD which does make me a little forgetful or easily confused.

Furthermore, I have never forgotten previous signing on days because my appointments were always on a Wednesday and probably ingrained into my head.

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Well, the sad truth is that you probably don't have much in the way of grounds to fight this sanction - as others have noted, you are expected to keep track of and attend JCP appointments when required. I presume it's a one-off appointment rather than a permanent change to your signing day and time (if it's the latter, they should have issued you with a new ES40 signing on booklet). However, you can ask them to look at the decision again - write them a letter saying something like "I am writing to ask you to reconsider your decision to sanction my JSA, communicated to me in your letter dated 09/04/2014" then give your reasons and mitigation. It's up to you whether you feel this would be worthwhile.

 

In the meantime, you can apply for hardship payments, although you can't normally receive these for the first two weeks of a sanction period. If you want to do this, make the application via your JC ASAP as they can't be backdated beyond the date you actually applied. Hardship is usually, I believe, 60% of your regular weekly amount. You could, in theory, be asked to attend an interview to demonstrate actual hardship, but these days that seems pretty rare.

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Sad that an apology isnt enough for us but ok for the likes of maria miller.

Guess we are not all in it together!

 

Im sorry but the op's story and the way we are treated just makes my blood boil. My best wishes goes out to you mate, keep smilling :-)

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Well, the sad truth is that you probably don't have much in the way of grounds to fight this sanction - as others have noted, you are expected to keep track of and attend JCP appointments when required. I presume it's a one-off appointment rather than a permanent change to your signing day and time (if it's the latter, they should have issued you with a new ES40 signing on booklet). However, you can ask them to look at the decision again - write them a letter saying something like "I am writing to ask you to reconsider your decision to sanction my JSA, communicated to me in your letter dated 09/04/2014" then give your reasons and mitigation. It's up to you whether you feel this would be worthwhile.

 

In the meantime, you can apply for hardship payments, although you can't normally receive these for the first two weeks of a sanction period. If you want to do this, make the application via your JC ASAP as they can't be backdated beyond the date you actually applied. Hardship is usually, I believe, 60% of your regular weekly amount. You could, in theory, be asked to attend an interview to demonstrate actual hardship, but these days that seems pretty rare.

 

I always keep records and paper work for future appointments and this is my first time for getting my actual signing on day wrong.

 

I have actually been out of work for years and struggled to find employment, but my punctuality has always been excellent for arriving at the job centre until now.

 

Surely we all risk slipping up and the jobcentre just preys on this opportunity.

 

I have a disability known as ADHD, maybe this be used to bolster my appeal?

I also hear that persistent attempts at appealing can result in getting your money back.

 

This is the words of someone on this forum

Here is his response. http://oi59.tinypic.com/2nak0hy.jpg

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Yeah, don't get the impression I was scolding you or anything - we all make mistakes and it is ridiculous that one such error results in sanction. Sadly, these are the times we live in.

 

As to the advice given by the poster on that forum, it is not correct. Firstly, before you can appeal you must request reconsideration, as I advised above. Secondly, I don't know what he means when he says "sod JSA, just apply for hardship". You can't apply for hardship unless you have been sanctioned on a benefit claim. So yes, you should apply for hardship but you can't just close down your JSA claim and expect to get hardship on the basis that it is your "human right". Friend Norman1066 may believe this, but the government does not view Human Rights law the same way.

 

Also, he mentions that all you need to do is show that you were Actively Seeking Employment (ASE). But missing an appointment is not an ASE matter, and the sanction you're facing is a conditionality sanction and must be contested on that basis.

 

People do succeed at reconsiderations/appeals, and it's certainly worth your while to do this since all you can lose is the price of a stamp. As to whether you should mention your ADHD, I'm not sure. It may help your case, perhaps. Were the JC advisers already aware you have this condition, and is it reflected in your Jobseeker's Agreement in any way?

 

Edit: Meant to add, if your regular signing day has changed, were you given a new signing on card (ES40)?

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As to whether you should mention your ADHD, I'm not sure. It may help your case, perhaps. Were the JC advisers already aware you have this condition, and is it reflected in your Jobseeker's Agreement in any way?

 

Edit: Meant to add, if your regular signing day has changed, were you given a new signing on card (ES40)?

 

The jobcentre is fully aware of my ADHD, I sometimes see a woman called XXXXX and she supports people with disability issues at my local jobcentre.

 

I’m also on a work program called advance that specialize in helping people with ADHD or other types of disability.

 

So yes, the job centre does know about my ADHD 100%.

 

From my memory, I wasn’t given a new signing on card, but I was given an A4 print out for my next appointment this Wednesday 16th.

http://oi57.tinypic.com/bj7e2s.jpg

 

However, I will be visiting the job centre today to claim hardship benefits and appeal over the phone.

A friend of mine has told me that the job centre don’t offer appeal booklets anymore and they prefer appeals to be done over the phone instead.

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From my memory, I wasn’t given a new signing on card, but I was given an A4 print out for my next appointment this Wednesday 16th. http://oi57.tinypic.com/bj7e2s.jpg

 

A friend of mine has told me that the job centre don’t offer appeal booklets anymore and they prefer appeals to be done over the phone instead.

 

That appointment looks more like a "Work Focused Interview" that would be in addition to your regular signing on appointment. On the reverse of the letter, does it give any warning about the consequences of not attending ?

 

Any dealings with the JCP/DWP should be done in writing and copies kept - You then have a paper trail should you need proof of what was or wasn't said. Telephone conversations can be ignored or denied and there is no proof of what might have been said.

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That appointment looks more like a "Work Focused Interview" that would be in addition to your regular signing on appointment. On the reverse of the letter, does it give any warning about the consequences of not attending ?

 

Any dealings with the JCP/DWP should be done in writing and copies kept - You then have a paper trail should you need proof of what was or wasn't said. Telephone conversations can be ignored or denied and there is no proof of what might have been said.

 

Yes, if I don't turn up for my work program with Advance, I’d be risking a sanction.

 

I do agree that paper communication between the job centre is better because you have proof of communication, but my friend went to the job centre for me and asked where the sanction booklets were and the job centre told her that all appeals are now done over the phone?

 

Is this true?

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Yes, if I don't turn up for my work program with Advance, I’d be risking a sanction.

 

I do agree that paper communication between the job centre is better because you have proof of communication, but my friend went to the job centre for me and asked where the sanction booklets were and the job centre told her that all appeals are now done over the phone?

 

Is this true?

 

By the look of things I am sorry and agree we all make mistakes but the dwp regime are harsh and the fact sheet stated the reasons for sanction, 'you fail to attend is one of the reason'. DWP should cater for people with illnesses but they do not care. Apply for hardship payments straight away but you will have to meet one of the criteria, if you have a disability or long term illness you should qualify.

 

If you phone the dwp record your telephone conversation, I have done so by my ipad, you do not need to tell them either.

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:33crazydude:

 

No, it isn't true that 'all appeals are now done over the phone'. On the contrary, appeals have to be submitted in writing on an SSCS1 form, available from the Tribunals Service. But before that, you need to ask Jobcentreplus to 'look at the decision again', officially known as a mandatory reconsideration. And despite Jobcentreplus preference for phone calls, given their talent for losing calls, it's best done in writing via recorded delivery. (At least hold onto a Post Office receipt as a certificate of posting.)

 

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit/decisions-made-on-after-28-october-2013

 

It isn't necessary to fall into one of the vulnerable groups (sick and disabled, some carers, claimants with children) for hardship payments, but non vulnerable claimants aren't paid until the fifteenth day of a claim.

 

Margaret.

 

 

 

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:33crazydude:

 

No, it isn't true that 'all appeals are now done over the phone'. On the contrary, appeals have to be submitted in writing on an SSCS1 form, available from the Tribunals Service. But before that, you need to ask Jobcentreplus to 'look at the decision again', officially known as a mandatory reconsideration. And despite Jobcentreplus preference for phone calls, given their talent for losing calls, it's best done in writing via recorded delivery. (At least hold onto a Post Office receipt as a certificate of posting.)

 

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit/decisions-made-on-after-28-october-2013

 

It isn't necessary to fall into one of the vulnerable groups (sick and disabled, some carers, claimants with children) for hardship payments, but non vulnerable claimants aren't paid until the fifteenth day of a claim.

 

Margaret.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Margaret,

 

Some useful advice you have provided

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I sympathise with you totally, 33crazydude - I had exactly the same thing happen to me but fortunately I got the money back as they didn't even bother sending me a letter telling me my money had been stopped (which they have to) so I got them on a technicality. Yet another good reason for us all to read up and learn the guidance rules.

 

Definitely appeal the decision and strongly emphasise your ADHD, even though the JC already know about it and handed you a written letter as a reminder - it's still no guarantee that you'd remember it and this should be taken into consideration by the person conducting the appeal. Plus, as this is the first time you've missed an appointment and you've always been previously punctual then they should accept it as a genuine mistake.

 

This is why I now play them at their own game and exercise my own zero tolerance and report the slightest error on their part. I'd much rather we could all act as humans and exercise a little 'give and take' but sadly that's not how the DWP want to play it these days. Good luck with your appeal.

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I sympathise with you totally, 33crazydude - I had exactly the same thing happen to me but fortunately I got the money back as they didn't even bother sending me a letter telling me my money had been stopped (which they have to) so I got them on a technicality. Yet another good reason for us all to read up and learn the guidance rules.

 

Definitely appeal the decision and strongly emphasise your ADHD, even though the JC already know about it and handed you a written letter as a reminder - it's still no guarantee that you'd remember it and this should be taken into consideration by the person conducting the appeal. Plus, as this is the first time you've missed an appointment and you've always been previously punctual then they should accept it as a genuine mistake.

 

This is why I now play them at their own game and exercise my own zero tolerance and report the slightest error on their part. I'd much rather we could all act as humans and exercise a little 'give and take' but sadly that's not how the DWP want to play it these days. Good luck with your appeal.

 

I just received a phone call from my local jobcentre and told them that their decision to sanction me was unjust

I also mentioned my ADHD which did seem to benefit my reconsideration appeal.

 

At the end of my telephone conversation, I was successful and they’ve decided to pay me my benefits again and relinquish their draconian sanction.

 

I very nearly had to go down the hardship benefits route because not going down the hardship route will result in losing housing benefit as well.

 

Anyhow, the lady on the phone has asked me to phone their Nottingham benefits centre tomorrow to ensure their department received her email to start my jobseekers allowance again.

 

By the way jasta11, I agree, it’s a good idea to play them at their own game and take a zero tolerance at any mistakes they make, but what good will it do.

It’s always the little people who suffer from their zero tolerance, but our complaints do little to their circumstances.

We are just the little people!

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:Mandatory Reconsiderations and Appeals:

 

Yes, the form at #16 is to appeal jobseekers (ESA and IS) decisions at a tribunal.

 

But before claimants get anywhere near a tribunal, they have to ask Jobcentreplus to 'look at the decision again'. If a decision isn't revised by Jobcentreplus, they send the claimant two copies of the mandatory reconsideration notice cos the Tribunals Service need a copy with a SSCS1 form.

 

Work n Pensions don't provide application forms for reconsiderations.

 

Currently, claimants and Jobcentreplus personnel alike are using the terms 'appeal' and 'reconsideration' interchangeably. Or Jobcentreplus are telling claimants they can't appeal.

 

1: Written (or phone) request to Jobcentreplus for a mandatory reconsideration. Jobcentreplus 'look at the decision again' to see if it can be changed.

 

2: As for :33crazydude: the decision may be revised. (Changed.) :-)

 

3: More likely, the decision won't be revised and claimant will receive two copies of mandatory reconsideration notice.

 

4: Use one copy of mandatory reconsideration notice to appeal on a SSCS1 form to the Tribunals Service.

 

Good luck, Margaret.

 

 

 

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I just received a phone call from my local jobcentre and told them that their decision to sanction me was unjust

I also mentioned my ADHD which did seem to benefit my reconsideration appeal.

 

At the end of my telephone conversation, I was successful and they’ve decided to pay me my benefits again and relinquish their draconian sanction.

 

I very nearly had to go down the hardship benefits route because not going down the hardship route will result in losing housing benefit as well.

 

Anyhow, the lady on the phone has asked me to phone their Nottingham benefits centre tomorrow to ensure their department received her email to start my jobseekers allowance again.

 

By the way jasta11, I agree, it’s a good idea to play them at their own game and take a zero tolerance at any mistakes they make, but what good will it do.

It’s always the little people who suffer from their zero tolerance, but our complaints do little to their circumstances.

We are just the little people!

 

Great news! I'm actually surprised that they've shown a human side and reconsidered in your favour. Do as the advisor says though and check your money is back online again, don't just assume that because they said it was okay it actually will be. Inter-departmental communication is not a strong point of the JC.

 

As for what good will it do playing them at their own game, it will certainly make them think twice about targetting you if they know you're someone who won't be pushed about, knows the rules and will report them if they fail to do their job. They really do treat you differently once they see this, I can vouch for that. They're Civil Servants and their jobs are nowhere near as secure as they once were, so they don't want any complaints..neither do their managers :)

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Great news! I'm actually surprised that they've shown a human side and reconsidered in your favour. Do as the advisor says though and check your money is back online again, don't just assume that because they said it was okay it actually will be. Inter-departmental communication is not a strong point of the JC.

 

As for what good will it do playing them at their own game, it will certainly make them think twice about targetting you if they know you're someone who won't be pushed about, knows the rules and will report them if they fail to do their job. They really do treat you differently once they see this, I can vouch for that. They're Civil Servants and their jobs are nowhere near as secure as they once were, so they don't want any complaints..neither do their managers :)

 

Hi jasta11,

 

 

I was surprised the Jobcentre would drop the sanction to be honest, but you’re correct about Inter-departmental communication being their weak point.

 

I spoke with a lady called XXXXX yesterday who works for some DWP department and she instructed me to phone Nottingham benefits centre the following day.

 

The reason for phoning Nottingham benefits centre guarantees XXXXX’s email was received to start my benefits up again.

 

I should get another phone call later today and hopefully they’ll tell me that my sanction was lifted.

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  • 9 months later...

Hi There,

 

I might be starting a job soon and my work program said they would pay for my first one month of bus fair costs, but my work program also recommended contacting the jobcentre because they might offer two months free bus fair.

 

Apparently, it’s called the Work Wise Scheme and curious if anyone has heard of it? :???:

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http://www.dudley.gov.uk/jobs-and-careers/workwise/

 

The link above is some blurb put out by Dudley Council. They do mention the 2 monthly travel passes. It tells you what the criteria is to claim this.

 

It might be a good idea to see if your Local Authority also have some thing similar that you can have a read of.

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I might be starting a job soon and my work program said they would pay for my first one month of bus fare costs, but my work program also recommended contacting the jobcentre because they might offer two months free bus fare.

 

If you are on the Work Programme, the JCP will refer you back to the provider and tell you that it is their responsibility to fund any "back to work incentives". They have already offered the first month's bus pass, I'd suggest negotiating for the second, especially if they expect to take the credit for helping you in to work (and collecting their payments).

 

Have you provided details of the new employer yet ?

If not, that is one bargaining chip to use.

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Very true, I found out today that people on work programs are referred back to them and they will provide the funding.

The only people who can acquire a free bus pass for 2 months are those not sent on a work program, but many unemployed people have never heard of the Work Wise Scheme.

 

Thanks to all who responded to my post, I am very grateful

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  • 11 months later...

Hi there everyone,

 

I was wondering if someone was able to advise me about possible changes coming to work experience through the job centre.

 

At the moment, I’m looking for paid work, but also trying to do some work experience through the job centre on my own accord.

 

However, my new job centre advisor keeps saying the government will be likely changing work experience from voluntary to mandatory in the near future.

 

She keeps telling me this when I sign on at the jobcentre each fortnight and it seems she’s trying to drum it into my head.

 

I told my advisor that work experience at the moment is voluntary and if I don’t like it, I can try something else, but she keeps insisting the governments going to change work experience to mandatory.

 

I get the impression the jobcentre don’t like their clients exercising their rights or freedoms too much and this encourages them to scaremonger a little bit.

 

Anyway, is this true or is my condescending advisor just instilling fear?

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I think they scaremonger a lot plus don't like clients exercising their rights and freedom or even knowing that actually have any

They want you broken and malleable and willing to leap to their every wish and even then they'll still bully you too often

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