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Hi Bakatcha,

 

 

The reason why I am contacting you is connected with my own dilemma with INGEUS!!

 

I have been out of work for sometime & it's tough.

 

The job centre has placed me on a mandatory work program with INGEUS & sadly it's lasted longer than expected.

 

My advisor is using unorthodox ways to find work for me and somewhat intrusive.

 

My advisor thinks it's a good idea if he watches me use the computer when I search/apply for jobs and he also wants me to possibly visit INGEUS on a daily basis.

 

He also thinks it's a good idea if he applies for vacancies without me performing this task and I strongly disagree with that!

 

He even suggested that I sit down with him & log onto my email account so he can check all the jobs I apply for each week, unacceptable in my opinion and I wondered what you make of this.

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Now I'm no expert but my feelings are:

1. You don't have to do anything unless you are correctly mandated.

2. The mandated activity has to be "reasonable" in your circumstances. What's "reasonable" is open to debate!

3. You have a right to privacy - this includes privacy of communications e.g. e- mail address.

 

Bearing the above in mind.

I would say that watching you use the computer is a possible breach of privacy as watching you logon to your e-mail account most certainly is (He could easily make a note of username and password).

As for applying for jobs on your behalf. He should not be able to do this unless you have signed the data consent (waiver form) and have given him a CV. If you have signed the waiver - withdraw consent in writing - examples of letter wording earlier in this thread and at: Securing your rights on Welfare to Work(fare) that's the old consent.me site.

Also request, in writing, that any electronic copy of your CV be deleted . I do not know if they have the right to retain the CV but it's no good to them if you withdraw your consent!

As for checking the jobs you apply for - give him a list -which can be limited to the number you are required by your JSag to do. Without your consent he cannot (or should not!) contact anybody on that list, to do so would be a crime (Data Protection Act 1998).

 

As for making you attend on a daily basis. I'm afraid he has the power to do this - if he follows the correct mandation procedure. You could well argue that it is unreasonable since you have access to computer/internet elswhere. If you are preapared to have the argument/discussion threaten to make a complaint (victimisation?).

It seems to me that you are being seen as "low hanging fruit" i.e. likely to provide a quick return for them. You may find this flattering but it comes with unwelcome attention. Once you stand up for yourself their attitude tends to change rapidly - after all there's no point cluttering up the place with people on daily attendance and forking out daily travel expenses if there is little prospect of a quick outcome!

Don't get "shirty" with them. At all times be reasonable - but firm. Make it clear that you know your rights.

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Hi Bakatcha,

 

 

 

Thank you very much for your reply and the advice you’ve provided is very helpful.

 

I have been with INGEUS for sometime and can’t remember if I signed any waiver when starting this organization.

 

When I starting INGEUS I was seeing a different consultant and because she was unable to assist me she decided to place me with someone else.

 

This alternative consultant probably specializes in pressurising their longer lasting clients to finding work in undesirable ways.

 

When I next see the INGEUS consultant should I ask him if I signed the waiver and will I need to send my decline on the waiver to INGEUS or the Job Centre?

 

 

Regards 33crazydude

 

P.S, I was under the belief that INGEUS can claim their travel expenses back from the government?

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Hiya Crazy Dude

 

Excellent idea, withdrawing your consent. I had similar problems with Ingeus until I withdrew consent. I was there 2-3 times a week.....after exercising my right to withdraw consent I became useless to them, and you shall too.

 

Now I attend once every 7-8 weeks. They dont wont you in their center once you have withdrawn consent cos they wont make any money from you.

 

Bakatcha is bang on, follow his instructions, and make yourself useless to them. (polite and professional behavior of course)...

 

Just one thing I would add is ensure you send a copy of your consent withdrawal to the JCP as well as Ingeus...as this will stop JCP acquiring the info that Ingeus need to claim their money should you find a job.

 

Nimitz

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Don't ask if you've signed the waiver. Use the letter from the site I gave you to make sure that you have - there's no harm in doing it twice!

I think they have to foot the bill for travel expenses/childcare etc without direct refund from govt. That was the reason given for needing an attachment fee. So every time they fork out it's money out of their pocket.

 

Once you have sent the withdrawal of consent letter (recorded delivery or similar) - keep a record of any unsolicited phone calls and e-mails you receive - date/time/sender/caller.

 

 

Cheers for that, I'll get that letter prepared from the link you provided.

 

Regards crazy dude

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Hi Nimitz,

 

You're dead right and I'll make sure that INGEUS don't get a penny.

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Hi Nimitz,

 

 

I discovered the website link which allows me to cancel my waiver, but on the link seems to be more than one letter?

Do I just copy and past the whole bloody thing into a word document and insert my address, name and national insurance etc :|

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Hiya Crazy Dude

 

Send me your email, (or use mine ) I will send you a withdrawal consent letter all ready to go......(you just add your name and address etc etc) or use the link Bakatcha gave you by copying the essential parts that suit your own personal circumstances.

 

Nimitz

Edited by honeybee13
Personal email removed, please don't publish it.

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Hi Nimitz,

 

Sorry to be a pain, but I wondered if you got my recent email this Friday.

There were a few more questions I needed to ask and promise I won't pester you anymore afterwards.

 

My message should be in your email account :-)

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Hi Nimitz,

 

Sorry to be a pain, but I wondered if you got my recent email this Friday.

There were a few more questions I needed to ask and promise I won't pester you anymore afterwards.

 

My message should be in your email account :-)

 

Hiya

 

All done

 

Nimitz

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Hi There,

 

 

I am fairly new to this forum and have already made some brief posts earlier this December.

 

The help I received from this site was invaluable and tremendously grateful to those who helped me.

 

I now have a different crisis and it affects both my landlady and I.

 

Sadly, I’m unemployed just like my landlady and we are both trying to find work, but circumstances are difficult because of the economic climate.

 

While my landlady is unemployed she’s totally dependant on her benefits from the state and rent money which I provide at the end of the month.

 

For a period of time this source of money helped her pay the monthly mortgage, utility bills and most importantly put food in the fridge.

 

Two months ago or possibly longer she was sanctioned unfairly by the job centre and consequently feeling the financial effect of no benefits.

 

My monthly rent does provide my landlady some help, but without the extra help from benefits she hasn’t been able to pay her mortgage and recently had a visit from the bank.

If my landlady fails to find work soon or fails to get her benefits up and running again, I think she’ll default on her mortgage again and risk being repossessed in the near future.

This means my landlady and I will lose our home and that’s somewhat worrying.

 

My landlady has taken a stand against the job centre and posted a compliant letter to their head office in Southampton and also sent a letter to Jobcentre Plus’s Chief Executive who’s based in London.

 

It seems these complaint letters have done little at present and she constantly contacts them to see how matters are moving along.

Because the system is deliberately slow and sceptical, I recommended that my landlady contact The Independent Case Examiner who looks into these matters and still nothing has been remotely dealt with.

 

My landlady and I believe there are no other options apart from taking legal action and wondering if there’s anyone who knows organizations or links to help my landlady acquire some kind of legal assistance.

 

All things considered, My landlady looks for work everyday and applies for a decent amount of jobs on a weekly basis, but when she visited the job centre she was handed four quick job print outs and because she applied for three and not all four she was sanctioned the next time she visited the job centre.

My landlady even told the job centre that she recently had an interview with the civil service and that’s evidence that she’s making a respectable effort.

 

I hope someone might be able to help because decent people who are genuinely looking for work shouldn’t be treated like this.

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I can't help with the legal assistance side of things. However, if JCP ask you to apply for a certain job and you don't do so they can sanction you. Do you know her reason for not applying for the fourth job? If it was for a valid reason (i.e. the travel costs are higher than the wage, it would take longer for her to travel to than the agreed travelling time in her JSA, etc.) then she may stand a chance of winning the reconsideration or appeal.

 

Generally I've found that it's a good idea to apply for jobs they ask you to even if you can't take the job in question. I've been asked to apply for a number of jobs where a driving license is required even though I don't have one. Each time I've gone along with it. I won't be offered the job anyway, so there's no point in risking a sanction.

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suppin is quite correct it is better to apply for anything they give you rather than run the risk of sanctions, if she does have a valid reason she can ask for a reconsideration of the sanction, and if the decision maker decides the reason is valid enough then the sanction will not be applied

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As the others have said the failure to apply for the one vacancy that she was given was the reason she was sanctioned.

I take it that she has requested a reconsideration followe by an appeal if the sanction is not revised favourably.

Has she also applied for hardship allowance? She may not qualify for any payment though due to your payment for rent as that is an income but it is still worth applying just in case.

I wouldn't rely on the letters to MP's etc to fastrack the appeal through either.

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As the others have said the failure to apply for the one vacancy that she was given was the reason she was sanctioned.

I take it that she has requested a reconsideration followe by an appeal if the sanction is not revised favourably.

Has she also applied for hardship allowance? She may not qualify for any payment though due to your payment for rent as that is an income but it is still worth applying just in case.

I wouldn't rely on the letters to MP's etc to fastrack the appeal through either.

 

When we remortgaged our house our adult children had to sign to the effect that they agreed not to take action in the event that we defaulted on the mortgage. This was because there was a case some years back where adult children that paid rent couldn't be evicted as they had rights as tenants.

 

I'm wondering if this may help if your landlady had problems paying the mortgage.


 

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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Like others have said, if JCP gives you 4 jobs you need to apply for all of them, if JCP gives me like 4 to 5 Jobs I am always going to apply for all of them as I don't want the risk of been sanctioned as I don't want to be evicted from my flat if my Jobseekers stop.

 

Like even for example it states on the vacancy that you need a driving licence you still got to apply for it and on the interview day and they ask you if you got one and you said no then they might turn you down for the job. I know applying for a job which states need a driving licence is stupid and you have not got one but this is Jobcentre we talking about but its worth applying for it, better then getting your JSA Stopped and ending up Homeless!!

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gay_guy1986 if you don't hold a driving license then you need to make sure that your JSAg reflects this so that you are not matched to vacancies that require a driving licence.

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Flumps1976, Yes I understand that and my JSAg claim states that I don't have a Licence, but I was just giving example to the OP that is all.

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Flumps1976, Yes I understand that and my JSAg claim states that I don't have a Licence, but I was just giving example to the OP that is all.

 

Fair enough, and your advice is appreciated. Let's note, though, that if you're matched to a job that requires a licence, and your JSAg clearly states that you don't have one, that's going to be a pretty good argument against a sanction. Advisers should not be matching people to jobs when they don't meet the basic requirements.


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When we remortgaged our house our adult children had to sign to the effect that they agreed not to take action in the event that we defaulted on the mortgage. This was because there was a case some years back where adult children that paid rent couldn't be evicted as they had rights as tenants.

 

I'm wondering if this may help if your landlady had problems paying the mortgage.

 

Hi caro,

 

 

Are you saying that the bank can’t evict my landlady while she has a paying tenant?

 

If my landlady wanted to use this argument, I assume she’d need to seek legal advice or would I have to be the one that does that?

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Like others have said, if JCP gives you 4 jobs you need to apply for all of them, if JCP gives me like 4 to 5 Jobs I am always going to apply for all of them as I don't want the risk of been sanctioned as I don't want to be evicted from my flat if my Jobseekers stop.

 

Like even for example it states on the vacancy that you need a driving licence you still got to apply for it and on the interview day and they ask you if you got one and you said no then they might turn you down for the job. I know applying for a job which states need a driving licence is stupid and you have not got one but this is Jobcentre we talking about but its worth applying for it, better then getting your JSA Stopped and ending up Homeless!!

 

My landlady said the reason for not applying for that fourth job was her lack of experience and qualifications.

I can't understand how a woman can have her benefits stopped because she's given a job that's out of her depth?

The system is there to help people, but instead it’s designed to trip people up and save money.

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As the others have said the failure to apply for the one vacancy that she was given was the reason she was sanctioned.

I take it that she has requested a reconsideration followe by an appeal if the sanction is not revised favourably.

Has she also applied for hardship allowance? She may not qualify for any payment though due to your payment for rent as that is an income but it is still worth applying just in case.

I wouldn't rely on the letters to MP's etc to fastrack the appeal through either.

 

She did request a reconsideration for getting her benefits up and running again, but DWP have rejected her request.

 

She even applied for hardship allowance and that was also rejected.

 

It’s so unfair and unethical for her to be treated like this.

 

It’s got to the point that letters to the head office and director have also failed and that’s why legal action seems like the final option.

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So has she also request an appeal against the decision?

The hardship will have been rejected due to the income received fronm you.

Certainly go ahead with the legal action if she feels that is the way forward but as she agreed to apply for the vacancy and it was matched during the advisory appointment the DMA team will have looked at everything provided (the paperwork from the JCP adviser, the original vacancy details and your landladies declaration of the reasons why she didn't apply for the vacancy) before making the decision initially and then they will have looked at the new information.

The decision is made by using the guidance and regulations in place.

How long is her sanction imposed for?

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So has she also request an appeal against the decision?

The hardship will have been rejected due to the income received fronm you.

Certainly go ahead with the legal action if she feels that is the way forward but as she agreed to apply for the vacancy and it was matched during the advisory appointment the DMA team will have looked at everything provided (the paperwork from the JCP adviser, the original vacancy details and your landladies declaration of the reasons why she didn't apply for the vacancy) before making the decision initially and then they will have looked at the new information.

The decision is made by using the guidance and regulations in place.

How long is her sanction imposed for?

 

 

I’m pretty confident her sanction will last for 6 months.

 

She did appeal against the jobcentre's decision, but she was unsuccessful and then attempted a claim for hardship, but also unsuccessful.

 

Like you said, I pay her rent & utilities which total £305 per month and this money probably caused her claim to be unsuccessful.

 

When her appeal failed and her hard ship attempt failed too, I then suggested that my landlady send a complaint to the job centre head office, but she’s still waiting for a response.

 

Because the job centre is taking so long, I now think legal action is the last option she has.

 

Do you know how she might obtain free legal advice and possible assistance or do you think there’s a better approach?

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