car towed away in Apr, letter from Bailiffs in Dec

[jvo]

HELP, my car been towed away ( and I assumed scrapped ) back in April this year - since I lost my job I couldn't afford to pay the fine and assumed at a time that it was the end of it. I have moved houses and was surprised to receive a letter yesterday from Rundles Bailiffs to claim 140 pounds in parking charges .

As per above- I was under the assumption that since the car has been towed away and I couldnt pay for its recovery that would be the end of the matter? What parking charges can be claimed at this stage and why ? I am also perplexed how did bailiffs managed to locate me at the new address since I didnt disclose it to anyone ( thought that is less of an issue at this point).

Your help and assistance would be much appreciated.

 

Jo- anne

[ploddertom]

Hi

 

I've moved your post to the Bailiff Forum as it is probably more relevant. Did you ever pay the original ticket as this is what I suspect they are chasing? Having had the vehicle towed & subsequently relinquished ownership does not mean the ticket was ever scrapped.

[jvo]

hi,

 

thanks for ur reply- no,not even sure there was an original ticket since i ve been out of london and when got back car was towed away . So , can i only assume that there must have been a ticket - is there anything I can do to contest the charges?

Thanks,

[ploddertom]

If you start at the beginning as to how/why the car was removed would be better. I assume Rundles have a Warrant of Execution for this, you should ask them to see the Warrant & carefully check the address on it. If as I suspect it is your old address then apply to Traffic Enforcement Centre to have it revoked & re-issued.

[jvo]

hi again and thanks for your reply ,

 

Just to clarify - my car been parked in the resident's parking space ( i had a permit at a time ) however it expired while I was out of London . Upon my return I have found out that my car been towed away - I didn't have the funds to pay the fine and assumed that it has been scrapped . I have heard absolutely nothing about the matter however moved ( locally ) couple of months ago and in the beginning of this week received letter which said the following :

 

" The Enforcement of road traffic debts ( certificated bailiffs ) ( amendment )regulations 2003

"By the virtue of a warrant issued by the traffic enforcement centre at Northampton County court and with the authority of xxxxx Council we have been instructed to seize goods and chattels on the premises for an unpaid parking charge ".

 

It goes on a little bit longer along the same lines . What I don't quite understand is why I have not been contacted at my old address when the incident took place but instead got the letter in Dec claiming the unpaid amount ( which I was never made aware of in the first place ) ? As per your prev post - can I actually contest it and what would be the chance of having it revoked ( if any ) ?

 

Thanks a lot,

Jo - Anne.

[Surfer01]

I thought that bailiffs could not remove property unless that property would cover all the costs of the warrant?

[old bill]

Firstly. you need to check with DVLA to establish who subsequently took possession of your car. A local authority cannot destroy a motor vehicle unless they can prove it is abandoned or they have lawful authority accorded to them by a court of law. You also need to find out who towed your car away. Until that information is in your possession, Rundles could be treading on unsafe ground legally, especially if the alleged warrant has been obtained in error or by perjury.

 

Surfer01, you are correct in what you say. If there are insufficient goods to cover the costs of a warrant, the bailiff should return the warrant to the LA marked Nula Bono (insufficient goods). If the bailiff doesn't, it can be alleged that the bailiff is attempting to obtain a financial advantage for himself and employers, i.e. garnering of fees.

[lamma]

if that quote is correct then the bailiff is substantially wrong. The reality is that ""By the virtue of a warrant issued by xxxxx Council" See CPR part 75.7. Bearing that in mind then the wording shown seems to me to clearly being in breach of S.135 (b) of the County Courts act 1984. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/28/section/135

[old bill]

And offences under Section 135, County Courts Act 1984 are indictable offences, which means police officers and the man and woman in the street have powers under Sections 124 and 124A, Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984, respectively, to arrest lying ****** certificated bailiffs in breach of said provision.

 

In fact, if you read what Rundles have said, it is 24-carat BS. Northampton issues a charge certificate and it is the local authority who issue the warrant.

 

Good bit of research, there, Lamma.

[brassnecked]

Bumbles & co may well be on a sticky wicket, on a couple of counts then. Op check with the council as to what addresses the correspondence went to, if not to your current address maybe out of time to TEC, subject to whether any time limits have passed, which if allowed puts the bailiff, and the Council which is wholly liable in a bit of a dilemma imho

[lamma]

It is likely that damages are obtainable in my opinion.

[brassnecked]

It is likely that damages are obtainable in my opinion.

 

Quite possibly if all correspondence went to another address, and bailiff flogged the car on

Damages for value of vehicle, and consequential loss?

[old bill]

It is possible that both the LA and Rundles and their towing contractor are all in the proverbial over this. Somebody needs to do some explaining, and fast, otherwise this could become Theft and Fraud by False Misrepresentation.

[jvo]

Good morning ,

 

And thanks for your replies everyone. I would be grateful if anyone could actually advise on the best course of action at this point - i.e . to pay the charge and than contest ( i really don't want anyone knocking on my doors to recover the charge ) or would I be better off contacting DVLA to establish what actually happened to a vehicle and than take things from there ?

Apologies for millions of questions but I have never been in that position before and really not sure what would be the best way of handling it .

 

Thanks a lot,

Jo- Anne

[Surfer01]

BTW if a bailiff takes your vehicle and then flogs it, whose responsibility is it to notify the DVLA?

[brassnecked]

BTW if a bailiff takes your vehicle and then flogs it, whose responsibility is it to notify the DVLA?

 

Bailiff and new keeper? It could go through several auction houses before DVLA would hear anything, like a case with a third party VW camper in for repair at a debtors address taken and flogged on unlawfully by Jacobs, the owner eventually got it back, but only with dire threats against Jacobs, who were very reluctant to do anything, they initially stonewalled and told lawful owner tough suck it down and stand the loss.

[tomtubby]

Sorry if I am being a bit "thick" here but I am curious as to why you had not made any enquiries since April as to who had taken your car or why?

 

Also, how old was the car?

 

Did you report the car as stolen?

 

Did you call TRACE?

 

I am assuming that all statutory notices had been sent to a previous address. I would suggest as a matter of urgency that you call the Traffic Enforcement Centre on 08457 045 007 and ask them to confirm the address on the warrant. Also ask them if any application has been made to amend the address. You can file an Out of Time witness statement and TEC will email the form to you.

 

Finally, have you called the company to establish whether your car has been sold or whether it is still in the car pound?

Please post back when you have contacted them. You will need the PCN number. Hopefully this will be on the letter from the bailiff and will consist of two digits followed by 8 numbers.

[old bill]

Firstly, it needs to be established as to whoever towed your car away had lawful authority to do so. If this cannot be established, then whoever towed your car away is risking a potential court appearance for Theft and, possibly, Fraud by False Misrepresentation. How did you become aware of who towed your car away? You need to establish this first before do anything else. If someone has acted without lawful authority, the local authority is going to have to do some judicious backside-kissing if they are going to avoid legal consequences.

[Surfer01]

Sorry if I am being a bit "thick" here but I am curious as to why you had not made any enquiries since April as to who had taken your car or why?

 

Also, how old was the car?

 

Did you report the car as stolen?

 

Did you call TRACE?

 

I am assuming that all statutory notices had been sent to a previous address. I would suggest as a matter of urgency that you call the Traffic Enforcement Centre on 08457 045 007 and ask them to confirm the address on the warrant. Also ask them if any application has been made to amend the address. You can file an Out of Time witness statement and TEC will email the form to you.

 

Finally, have you called the company to establish whether your car has been sold or whether it is still in the car pound?

Please post back when you have contacted them. You will need the PCN number. Hopefully this will be on the letter from the bailiff and will consist of two digits followed by 8 numbers.

 

It seems that the OP had the car removed due to non payment of fine and thought that was the end of the matter. It now seems that when the car was sold off, there weren't enough funds to cover the debt and the bailiff has come back for more money. IMHO they should not have taken the car if it was not going to cover the debt.

[ploddertom]

It seems that the OP had the car removed due to non payment of fine and thought that was the end of the matter. It now seems that when the car was sold off, there weren't enough funds to cover the debt and the bailiff has come back for more money. IMHO they should not have taken the car if it was not going to cover the debt.

 

The vehicle was towed for being in a residents area without a permit - it had expired. I assume the LA had it towed by one of their contractors and Rundles are now chasing the subsequent unpaid PCN.

[brassnecked]

The vehicle wa

s towed for being in a residents area without a permit - it had expired. I assume the LA had it towed by one of their contractors and Rundles are now chasing the subsequent unpaid PCN.

That would seem to be the scenario, Op had been away, motor gone in absence, as permit expired

[Surfer01]

Then where is the motor? Is it in a storage compound? Surely if they tow away a vehicle, they cannot dispose of ti without contacting the owner as no levy is in place?

[brassnecked]

Then where is the motor? Is it in a storage compound? Surely if they tow away a vehicle, they cannot dispose of ti without contacting the owner as no levy is in place?

 

I think there may be a provision where there is a residents parking scheme, for unauthorised/permitless motors to be towed, or if permit expired, did council consider it abandoned and removed it as such, was there road tax on it when it was removed? as a tax disc can be a presumption against abandonment?

 

We need Op to give a few more details.

[jvo]

Good evening everyone,

 

Well, to make it clear(er) - I didn't raise the concern since my car was an old Ford KA , 97 reg and in a way it was a relief to have it towed away at a time. However, at this stage - and I am not sure how the letter from bailiffs ( chasing unpaid PCN I assume) have reached me at my new address. As per tomtubby's suggestion I shall liaise with Traffic Enforcement Centre to get further information - however I have just taken a look at the letter from the bailiff and there appears to be absolutely no additional information regarding PCN - the only details are my car's reg number and bailiff reference.

Again, many thanks for your comment and suggestions -these are very much appreciated.

 

have a good evening,

Jo- Anne

[lamma]

Absent all the paperwork we do not know.