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danceshamen

Greetings everyone! issue with a car bought on Xmas eve e a trader on Ebay

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Also lets say i went & i lost the case.. would i have to pay his solicitors fees like he says?

 

How can you lose? Providing that you have collated your evidence, I don't see how you can.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Hi Conniff & thanks for getting back to me... I have been quoted £650 to get the car roadworthy again. This is for a fully recon engine. It would have been £295 if it was ok to simply repair the head gasket but because this would be pointless as it would simply just blow again very quickly according to the specialist then that is the cost. I have asked a couple of other places & the £650 price is actually very good. (This job with the specialist is normally £700 but is reduced by £50 because i have already paid £125 to get the fault identified)

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If you are putting a court claim in, include all your costs, for example also including the £125 the diagnostics cost you.

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Thank you so much everyone for your help with this :-D. Was not very pleased when he rang & on my home number too which i think was an attempt to unnerve me as i have never given him my home number & considering his confrontational manner i can only taking it as being somewhat of a veiled threat.

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So is there no issue crem that i got the car inspected? Just he seems to think his solicitor has told him that because i didn't give him fair chance to rectify the issue first then i would lose. Even though i sent 2 messages via the Ebay messaging system saying item not as described etc... which i have copies of of course.. but he says these are irrelevant because i didn't phone him?

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Before you take it further, leave the feedback "Car was junk and ebayer is actually dealer who in this ID sold 8 cars last year", then tell him if you dont see your money back the following day you will send all the details to HMR&C who can hit him far harder than you ever will in court. Also check any other cars outside the garage to see if they are listed under other ebay IDs.

 

Remember to add your 200quid for costs inconvenience.

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If he is ringing and being harassing on the phone, get yourself a phone recorder and record every call he makes. You don't have to tell him you are recording. Untruths and harassment don't go down very well in courts.

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So is there no issue crem that i got the car inspected? Just he seems to think his solicitor has told him that because i didn't give him fair chance to rectify the issue first then i would lose. Even though i sent 2 messages via the Ebay messaging system saying item not as described etc... which i have copies of of course.. but he says these are irrelevant because i didn't phone him?

 

I'm not an expert in this field but as I understand it you are supposed to "attempt to contact him to allow him to rectify". He says you should have telephoned him, I think from a legal view point what you did was far better, i.e. you made attempts in writing to contact him. This gives a far better audit trail of when you wrote to him (via ebay) and his lack of response.

 

but he says these are irrelevant because i didn't phone him?

 

ermm I think I'll wait for a judges opinion on that rather than his :lol:

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How long after purchase did the faults appear ?

How long after the fault appeared did you email him through ebay ?

How long was it between the two emails through ebay ?

How long after the second email did you wait before you took the car for examination ?

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Faults started to appear as soon as the engine warmed up properly which is apparently usually the case according to the specialist & this is also why the faults were not apparent when i was, as a layman, checking the car over prior to buying even though the engine was running.

 

Firstly after driving around 5 to 6 miles i noticed it seemed to get abnormally smokey from the exhaust, then that the heater was cold, then when fully warmed up i noticed the temp gauge was going higher then i thought it should to be normal & would go up even higher to around 3/4 if i went up even the slightest incline then come back down if i went downhill etc.. You could tell it was not right although it didn't boil over or anything like that although this was no doubt helped by the very cautious way i was driving upon noticing these "signs". This was all witnessed by a gentleman who came up with me to collect the car who i was following back home as a precaution. He asked me when we got back why i was driving so slowly being as though it was mostly motorway & dual carriageway on the way back (approx 50 miles).

 

I collected the car on Christmas Eve and have not driven it since then. This could be confirmed by both my insurance, which i changed over to collect the car & then changed straight back as on seeking advice from both friends & online MG Rover forums i was advised to not drive it without getting it checked out first as everything was indicating probable Head Gasket issues.

 

I tried calling him on the day of collection but the phone just rang out. Then i emailed him firstly on 27th December, this delay of two days was out of respect for the fact it was Christmas Day / Boxing day on the 25th & 26th. Then having seen no response, 24 hours later i sent a second message on the 28th Dec. I then waited until 2nd January and still had no response so went ahead & got the specialist in to let me know whether or not the Head Gasket had indeed failed or not. He confirmed that it had gone on looking at the engine (prior to removing the Head). Then said that it was really important now to check for further damage as this was very possible being the K-series engine. He said in view of the seriousness of the nature of purchase i would be best advised to check it thoroughly as if the seller repaired it i would want it to be repaired properly. To do this he said he would have no option but to remove the head but this was essential to accurately determine the extent of damage & he would not carry out any repairs without my say so in view of the situation. I had of course explained the situation to him. He said i was within my rights to find out the full extent of the issue(s) This took place at my home address as i did not want to drive the car again due to being advised this could cause more damage.

 

Still i had no reply from the seller so, needing to get some kind of resolution i did try to phone him but got no reply. The the phone just rang out. I waited until after New Year & I called him again although i do admit i don't remember exactly which day this was on. This time it went to answer machine so i left him a voicemail.

 

He eventually called me. I explained the situation to him & he said that he would indeed work with me on it but that he didn't understand what the MG Specialist was on about by saying the Liner had dropped. He asked me to get someone else to look at the engine. This i did although they appeared less knowledgeable than the MG Specialist. They did say they would try to fit a new Head Gasket however but the guy did not seem aware of the liner issue with this model & neither had he brought the correct tools to check it properly. Even so i called the seller back again & told him of the difference of opinion. He said "I told you so" in so many words although i was personally not happy with the second diagnosis having had a little time to think about it.

 

He then asked me what i wanted from him so i said first i wanted to get the quote for repair correct before i gave him an answer.

 

He was ok with this & said he would work with me on it.

 

All of this was done by phone however.

 

So i recontacted the MG Specialist & explained what had happened & asked him why there was a difference of opinion between him & the other engineer. He said that many non specialists would indeed say they could fit a new head. He said that he could indeed fit a new head but he guaranteed that because of the liner it would simply blow again within a matter of days. So i asked them to do a full engineers report which they have done. I have the report here.

 

Then i tried to call the seller on several occasions again to no avail. I left numerous messages for him & was even told on one occasion that he would call me later that day by someone else who picked up the phone. This went on for several days.

 

Finally i called & left him a message saying as he was ignoring my calls i would have no option but to pursue matters via a different route if i didn't hear from him very soon.

 

Later that evening he phoned me. He basically, in a rather hostile manner, said that he would not be offering anything whatsoever towards the repairs or otherwise. He said he didn't believe that the car had a faulty head gasket & that the so called MG Rover specialist didn't know what he was on about. He also said that i didn't phone him to tell him straight away & so his "legal team" had said to him "what are you worried about if he didn't call you he hasn't got a leg to stand on" or words to that effect. He then said in a distinctly nasty tone... "So listen to me..... i will not be giving you anything towards that car... nothing"... & that was the end of the call.

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Other signs which became evident on inspection having driven the car home were, odd browny deposits in the water header tank (now been identified by the specialist as K-Seal), the water level had dropped & there was now some cream on the oil cap.

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There is indeed a well known design fault with the 'K' series engine in that the liners can drop. To just replace the head gasket, even if the head was skimmed, would be folly and the problem would reappear.

If 'K' Seal/Radweld has been used, the problem was know by someone.

 

What you need to do now is to write down a bulleted list of your actions with times and dates if possible, so it can be seen at a glance how it all progressed since purchase and so that you are prepared. You then have to make the decision of allowing him to repair it, or you pay for the repairs and attempt to recover your costs in court.

 

If you do decide to go to court, you will need to send, by recorded deliver, a letter to the seller quoting the cost of repair and asking if he is willing to pay or contribute to this bill. When and if he replies in the negative, you send him the same letter headed 'Letter Before Action' and give him a time for him to respond, 10 days is ample, and say 'no further correspondence will be entered into'.

 

Give a couple of days beyond the time you give him to respond and then issue a claim.

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Thanks Connif & everybody else who has helped with this.. Very much appreciated... as & when it all gets sorted i will pledge a donation to the site.

 

One more quick question. In the Recorded delivery letter i sent i asked for a refund of the purchase cost & for him to collect the vehicle once he had repaid me the money. So am i still ok to now change that to asking whether he is prepared to pay for or contribute for repairs?

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I forgot you did a rejection. The problem with that as I see it, (but I might be wrong), as the car stands now in a dismantled state, it is not in the condition he sold it to you and could probably argue that in refusing a rejection.

 

You can certainly put in another letter that you would be willing to accept the cost of repairs but this does not cancel out your right of rejection under The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) and The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 in that goods must be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

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Are you sure the quoted price for repair is correct as this seems very cheap for a fault of this nature. The price quoted does not seem to add up to a proper fix and sounds like a secondhand engine rather than a proper fix once and for all.

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I forgot you did a rejection. The problem with that as I see it, (but I might be wrong), as the car stands now in a dismantled state, it is not in the condition he sold it to you and could probably argue that in refusing a rejection.

 

You can certainly put in another letter that you would be willing to accept the cost of repairs but this does not cancel out your right of rejection under The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) and The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 in that goods must be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

 

 

Ok, So this is what i need to find out.

 

Despite my attempts to contact the seller between 24th Dec & 2nd Jan i could not do so. So because i obviously needed the car to actually use it & time was going on i had the car inspected at my expense of £125. The inspection revealed k-seal in the water system (Highlighting that somebody must have been aware of the issues prior to my buying the car) & confirmed Head Gasket was gone. I was strongly advised by the Specialist to check for damage to the engine liners as this was often the cause of Head Gasket failure in the K-Series engine & also that i needed to protect myself because if the Seller simply put a new Head Gasket on it would simply blow again very quickly meaning that i was in the same position again in a couple of weeks time but now with no comeback. This involved removing the Cylinder head although it was impossible to accurately diagnose the fault without doing this & of course the Head Gasket was gone anyway so this would need to be removed regardless to repair that.

 

The Specialist then removed the Head & confirmed Liner no.3 had dropped. This would have been caused by the engine overheating at some point though at no time during my journey home did the engine actually overheat. (Surely this is also evidence that the issue was present prior to my buying the car?). I also have a witness to this as i was following a friend all the way home & the car has not been driven since.

 

So now the car is in a dismantled state as it would be pointless to repair it without all the issues being resolved. Clearly i wanted someone independant to inspect the damage & not the seller. I feel a highly recommended MG Rover specialist is the ideal person to do this? Also with K-Seal being present & the way the car was advertised why would i want to then trust this man to do a proper diagnosis & repair on the car? So surely i had no option other than to get the car properly inspected?

 

So what do you do here?

Does this affect my case?

Did i not make a sufficient attempt to contact the seller?

Can the buyer claim i should not have had the engine inspected?

Should i get it "put back together" with a new Head gasket but with the liner issue still present & then try to reclaim the cost ?

 

Also as this would be going through a small claims court is it correct that the seller cannot claim for any solicitors expenses?

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Are you sure the quoted price for repair is correct as this seems very cheap for a fault of this nature. The price quoted does not seem to add up to a proper fix and sounds like a secondhand engine rather than a proper fix once and for all.

 

Hi Heliosuk

 

Thanks again for your input.

The quote is for a fully reconditioned engine with all the work done by the MG Rover specialist & with a guarantee.I think a "new" engine would be impossible in this instance due to MG Rover no longer being in existence. So this is a like for like repair so to speak.

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Have to admit, I'm sceptical that the price quoted is for a fully re-conditioned engine done properly. Can you get and give the specs as it still does not ring true. If you had said £1500 for then engine alone then I'd be a bit more comfortable.

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Have to admit, I'm sceptical that the price quoted is for a fully re-conditioned engine done properly. Can you get and give the specs as it still does not ring true. If you had said £1500 for then engine alone then I'd be a bit more comfortable.[/quote

 

I will ask him.

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Based on reading the rover forums (I used to have a 75) £650 is the going rate for a multi-layer steel head gasket, water pump and gaskets from a marque specialist.

 

There are probably new k-series about with specialists or direct from China where they are still made. A fundamentally good engine spoiled by BMW penny pinching.

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If the liner(s) have dropped then I can't see even a re-manufactured short block being available for £650. The quote just does not add up to me which is probably why the sellar is criticising the specialist.

 

OP needs to be quite clear on exactly what they would be getting for the money or else I think there will be more trouble down the line.

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