Greetings everyone! issue with a car bought on Xmas eve e a trader on Ebay

[danceshamen]

Hi there,

On Christmas Eve i bought a car on Ebay.

 

A 2003 MG Rover ZS 1.8 with 85k on the clock.

 

The car was described with no faults & just highlighted the good bits.

Indeed the description even states that the cars" ENGINE & GEARBOX ARE SOUND WITH NO HEAD GASKET PROBLEMS".

This was backed up on collection of the vehicle which all "seemed" ok when looking at it.

 

Having now driven the car home however i have found that the Heater stopped working half way home,

the temp gage was up & down all over the place running as high as three quarters of the way up which indicates engine problems

i.e. Head Gasket issues, the header tank where you add water is coated now in oily deposits again indicating head gasket issues

& there is some cream on the oil cap again indicating head gasket issues.

The heater malfunctioning is also pointing towards the same fault.

 

I collected the car with a friend of mine so have a witness to everything the guy said & the car was collected from outside a MOT testing garage where he had sole access.

 

He stated that they had done a full "Dye test" to confirm the Head gasket was ok.

 

He also showed me a clean oil cap & pointed out there was no residue in the water system (both now have residue on having driven the car around 45 miles home only).

 

Also i opened the drivers window to find it came out of the rails & will not go back in ..this wasn't mentioned either.

 

He gave me a written receipt with "Sold as seen" on it but of course i can only see what is there not what has been hidden etc.

I am no expert on cars & cannot sadly see inside an engine or water system or inside a door.

 

I know the car was only cheap at £460 but this was cheaper than normal for one of these models presumably as the auction ended at around 1.15am on a Christmas Eve

there were not as many bidders as normal.. a very similar car went through several hours earlier for around £850.

 

I will get the car properly checked as a matter of course but what would you recommend i do next here?

 

Am i within my rights to simply say i'm not happy with the car & require a refund?

 

Also i have the transaction id here .......

 

I also note, having read through several similar threads & therefore realising the relevance of this,

that the seller has sold 8 cars in the last 12 months which i believe makes him a trade seller?

 

& bizarrely he also sold a vehicle with undisclosed faults on Christmas Eve last year?!

 

As seen with the negative feedback in his previous transactions?

 

Any help or advice would be much appreciated

Regards

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

I've moved this thread to the appropriate Forum, hopefully you'll get some advice shortly.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

[Andrew-P]

For any issues with MGs or Rovers look at www.mg-rover.org as the answers to technical questions are there.

 

Got to say the heater not working is one of the first signs of HGF and the temperature needle up and down is a very bad sign. On the plus side the ZS is a vastly underrated car and handles very nicely.

 

On my basic knowledge it does look like the guy is a trader and therefore SOGA applies (others can confirm this)

 

Finally - whatever you do - do not drive it as it could cause a lot more damage.

[sailor sam]

Sounds like HGF to me. If the seller is a trader SOGA will apply. Have you reported the issues to the seller which you must do in the first instance? Even at £460 the car must be fit for the purpose and of reasonable quality. Suggest you print off a copy of the Ebay listing.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Conniff]

Is this a private seller or a car dealer?

 

Take a screen shot now of the description and get your friend to write down what he heard when it was being described.

[danceshamen]

Hi Thanks all for the advice.. I have printed off the original ad & description as well as the list of the guys previous sales history. I collected the car from outside an MOT testing garage where he works (He had the keys so i assume he may own it?). I will get my friend to write down what he heard the guy say regards having thoroughly tested the HGF by running blue dye through it etc. The guy was on his own completely & said garage was on an industrial estate.. I will report it to him tomorrow & havn't thus far due to Xmas etc. Have not driven car since bringing it home.

[sailor sam]

Hi Thanks all for the advice.. I have printed off the original ad & description as well as the list of the guys previous sales history. I collected the car from outside an MOT testing garage where he works (He had the keys so i assume he may own it?). I will get my friend to write down what he heard the guy say regards having thoroughly tested the HGF by running blue dye through it etc. The guy was on his own completely & said garage was on an industrial estate.. I will report it to him tomorrow & havn't thus far due to Xmas etc. Have not driven car since bringing it home.

 

Please let us know how you get on. Remember that 'sold as seen' or anything else which attempts to reduce your consumer rights by a trader, is illegal.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[danceshamen]

Please let us know how you get on. Remember that 'sold as seen' or anything else which attempts to reduce your consumer rights by a trader, is illegal.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Ok i will do Sam.. Thanks again!.. Only thing i would ask is as this will be my 1st contact with him i was initially going to phone him as he is 50 miles from me so not realistic to "pop in"... is this Ok or am i better holding fire & writing?... was just a bit concerned as to the speed of my reponse & with Xmas post delays etc..

Was also wondering if this would be why he appears to like selling on Xmas eve's? Especially if he has time off until New Year etc... This will clearly make it appear as though more time has passed since i bought the car etc thus adding weight to his story which i have no doubt he has pre prepared!?

 

Thanks again for your time.

[sailor sam]

Send him an email (via Ebay if necessary) as soon as possible to report the issue. In your email you should ask him what he is prepared to do. Make sure you keep a record of all communication and that you can print it off if necessary.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[heliosuk]

Hi there,

On Christmas Eve i bought a car on Ebay.

 

 

I know the car was only cheap at £460 but this was cheaper than normal for one of these models presumably as the auction ended at around 1.15am on a Christmas Eve

there were not as many bidders as normal.. a very similar car went through several hours earlier for around £850.

 

 

Does the fact it was an auction complicate things somewhat??

[sailor sam]

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_different_ways_of_buying_e/consumer_buying_at_auction_e/consumer_buying_at_an_online_auction_e/buying_at_an_online_auction_how_it_works.htm

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[heliosuk]

Which states " When you buy from an internet auction, you may have fewer rights to protect you if something goes wrong. " It's all pretty non descript sit on the fence stuff.

 

I think the OP needs to state exactly how the car was bought first, i.e. did they bid on it and win it? Was it done via "Buy it Now", Was it a classified ad?

 

It does make a diference though the approach you advocate seems to be the sensible one though not clear cut.

[oddjobbob]

I found the car helios, the seller is a complete idiot, saynig it has no head gasket probs, etc, absolutely stupid to take this man's mnoey for an old shed.

 

I know the car was only £460 and could possibly break for near that money but it SHOULD have been as described whether it was £4.60 or £4,600.

 

The buyer will get all the lame excuses 'sold as seen at auction etc' and it'll be a struggle to get any money back.

 

its bad enough doing this anytime of year but xmas eve..... what an idiot.

[heliosuk]

Not disagreeing with anyone oddjob, it does sound like a shed. The problem here will be how it was bought and what sort of legal redress/options the OP has. This we are yet to find out. Whether or not the guy is a trader is somewhat nebulous at the moment until we know how the car was bought. As I point out, the route for redress currently advocated would seem to be the best way forward but if the OP bid for it without seeing it could have a slightly different stance on the advocated action.

[sailor sam]

The fact remains that just because the OP has bought the car via an auction on Ebay, if the seller is a trader, then SOGA will still apply.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[heliosuk]

I think you posted the link below Sam.

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan...w_it_works.htm

 

Which states " When you buy from an internet auction, Which states " When you buy from an internet auction, you may have fewer rights to protect you if something goes wrong. " It's all pretty non descript sit on the fence stuff.

 

If bought as auction item without a view then as official guidelines state "you may have fewer rights to protect you if something goes wrong".

 

SOGA COULD apply but then again it COULD easily not in this case.

[sailor sam]

Read step '6' again.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[heliosuk]

I presume you mean this bit Sam.

 

Online auction websites are not usually classed as an auctioneer under UK law.

 

Note the words "not usually classed" which implies and is definitive in certain circumstances they can be.

 

Too much Christmas Pud mate!!

 

Until OP lets the forum know how it was purchased you cannot rely on the use of SOGA in this instance!

[sailor sam]

Yes, you got it Helio. Selling on Ebay does not provide an escape route for a trader whether he is selling as a 'buy it now' or as an auction.

 

If the seller is a trader then SOGA will apply.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[oddjobbob]

The point here is that the seller was obviuosly aware of the faults and knowingly sold the car with them.

 

Let's face it, at £460, he's NOT going to spend hundreds on it to get it running or want to give any money back.

 

Whether the sale of goods act applies is irrelevant here as it will be a fight from start to finish to get any money back. Even if trading standards etc get involved that is NOT the same as getting any money back and the buyer will have an uphill struggle here.

 

The seller appears to be a complete idiot and is quite patently a sell it and scarper merchant.

 

I think any money spent by the OP will be wasted as he is unlkely to get anything back: he's be better off either fixing the car or scrapping it.

 

The car trade has quite a bd enough name already without charlatans like this seller playing at being a car dealer

[danceshamen]

Hi All.

 

To update.. Firstly i note that one are two of you are wondering how i purchased the car. Well it was not a "Buy it Now" but rather i won it with the highest bid.

 

Thus far i have sent the seller this via the Ebay messaging system:

 

Hi XXX,I purchased the MGzs from you on Boxing day. I Didn't contact you immediately due to Christmas. Thus far i've only driven home (Approx 50 miles) & i am rather concerned about the car. The temperature gauge is bobbing about between half way & three quarters(Should be steady just under 1/2 way) The car is very smokey too. Secondly the heater, which you assured me was working ok is not working ok at all & in fact started to blow icey cold after about 5 miles of driving. Thirdly the water level in the header tank was low & i noticed the header tank is coated in oily brown deposits. Also the drivers window came off the rails as soon as i opened it which was not mentioned either. I realise of course the car was only £460.01 but these are mostly signs of water system/HGF which is serious. I would like to in the 1st instance ask what you will do regarding these issues? I know you assured me HG was ok more than once & that you had tested it with dye etc. Please advise

 

Regards

 

This was sent on Boxing day though i have thus far not received any reply. So earlier today i sent another similar message asking him to please respond ASAP & again listing the issues.

 

I have also now spoken with a speacialist MG Rover mechanic who is coming out to thoroughly inspect the car on 2nd Jan & if necessary replace the HG.

 

Now here's the thing... When i got speaking with this mechanic it became apparent that he had actually been out to look at the exact car i bought!! This due to the fact his own car is the exact same colour & model. He originally won the car on Ebay & then refused it when he went to it due to... Head gasket!!.. How weird is that lol!!

 

So i actually have a guy who had previously been to the car & confirmed the HG is shot.. Surely this shows that the seller must have been aware of the problem before relisting it?

 

Thing is do i go ahead & repair the car? or should i hold fire for a while?

 

Thanks again all.

[danceshamen]

NB* The car was actually bought on Xmas Eve not Boxing day as i incorrectly put there... Typo sorry.

[danceshamen]

Also i did not inspect the car prior to placing the winning bid due to the car being 50+ miles from me & not seeing the auction for the vehicle until late on on the day it finished. Which was past 1am on Christmas Eve. I did however inspect the vehicle prior to making payment & nothing was visible.. The car didn't smoke & seller was ready for me showing me the oil cap free from "cream" & the luke warm heater (presumably as he had topped up the water & run the car prior to my arrival to cover these issues up?). He also twice told me that as they do MOT's at his garage they had checked the HG by running blue dye through it & it was absolutely fine. I asked him if the heater worked properly & he said yes it's fine. He told me they had even fitted a brand new exhaust system front to back & done all the coolant & oil which were both fine. He pulled out the dipstick & showed me there was no cream present etc too... So he was clearly well prepared lol! Basically said i had a real bargain & only problem he knew of was a little tear on drivers seat... He did say that even if HG went with the price i paid i would still have a cheap car but again assured me it was fine & they had thoroughly tested it with dye.

 

So nothing was apparent & i bought the car.

[dw190]

Also i did not inspect the car prior to placing the winning bid due to the car being 50+ miles from me & not seeing the auction for the vehicle until late on on the day it finished. Which was past 1am on Christmas Eve. I did however inspect the vehicle prior to making payment & nothing was visible.. The car didn't smoke & seller was ready for me showing me the oil cap free from "cream" & the luke warm heater (presumably as he had topped up the water & run the car prior to my arrival to cover these issues up?). He also twice told me that as they do MOT's at his garage they had checked the HG by running blue dye through it & it was absolutely fine. I asked him if the heater worked properly & he said yes it's fine. He told me they had even fitted a brand new exhaust system front to back & done all the coolant & oil which were both fine. He pulled out the dipstick & showed me there was no cream present etc too... So he was clearly well prepared lol! Basically said i had a real bargain & only problem he knew of was a little tear on drivers seat... He did say that even if HG went with the price i paid i would still have a cheap car but again assured me it was fine & they had thoroughly tested it with dye.

 

So nothing was apparent & i bought the car.

 

Did you pay with real money (Cash)?

[danceshamen]

Yes cash.. this was what he stipulated on the auction.