jonni2bad v Halifax - Got the money but no default removal

[LizzyB]

Hi Jonni2bad

 

I have just joined this thread Jonni and feel like I am in soap opera. Completly gutted that your date has been put back to November.... I will have to do some work now!

 

I am just in the process of compiling documents to start taking NatWest on.

 

Keep up the good work

 

Liz xx:p

[jonni2bad]

....Completely gutted that your date has been put back to November....

 

I wasn't - I had a holiday booked and didn't fancy returning for one day!

 

Thanks for the support.

[MARTIN3030]

Thats a thought John.............The Cag campaign must be putting loads of extra business the travel industry way.....as holidays seem to top the list of spending ater winning..........reckon we should negotiate some discounts..... .

[Logan21]

deffo, i could do with some money off with my flight to Australia.

 

Good bits of info here Jonni, I will wait and see if Halifax default me once i start the action.

 

I dont think they will because I am gonna pay off the credit card and then go at them.

 

Good luck with your case.

[purplecatlover]

It will be at the Mansfield County Courts .

 

might i jump in and ask if you can tell me exactly where the courts are here? are they the building behind the lesiure center, kind of opposite the civic center like i think or is that th ewrong one? i suspect i am going to have to visit them to file my claim in a couple of weeks.

 

good luck with the court day.

[jonni2bad]

Hi

 

 

To the right hand side of the Stags ground, Nottingham Road, left onto Commercial Gate.

 

There is temp' parking just outside the Courthouse for about 4 cars.

[purplecatlover]

ahh i see thank you not the one i was thinking of at all. now i wont make a fool of myself by going to the wrong place

[lostinparadise]

Hi Jonni2bad

 

I was wondering if you could tell me where i could get copies of these case laws to add to my case bundle?

 

The Claimant will also make reference to the following case laws;

1. Murray v Leisureplay [2005] EWCA Civ 963

2. Wilson v Love [1898]

3. Lordsvale Finance PLC v Bank of Zambia (1996) QB 752

4. Bridge v Campbell Discount Co. Ltd. (1962)

 

 

Hope you can let me know this am!! If not i think ill be ok with the rest!!!

 

Your document link plus Bookworms has been an amazing help.

 

Thanks loads

 

LIP:)

[Glenn UK]

Hi Jonni2bad

 

I was wondering if you could tell me where i could get copies of these case laws to add to my case bundle?

 

The Claimant will also make reference to the following case laws;

1. Murray v Leisureplay [2005] EWCA Civ 963

 

Murray v Leisureplay Plc [2005] EWCA Civ 963 (28 July 2005)

 

2. Wilson v Love [1898]

 

3. Lordsvale Finance PLC v Bank of Zambia (1996) QB 752

 

4. Bridge v Campbell Discount Co. Ltd. (1962)

 

 

Hope you can let me know this am!! If not i think ill be ok with the rest!!!

 

Your document link plus Bookworms has been an amazing help.

 

Thanks loads

 

LIP:)

 

Ive been searching BAILI and do you think i can actually find the links for the other cases? Not as yet.

 

Found this which discusses several cases contract law Penalties and liquidated damages clauses re penalty clauses

 

Glenn

[angry banker]

hi johnny, sorry for jumping on the thread but could you tell me if the list earlier in the thread was what you originally put in with your N1. i understand i have to put in three copies but not sure of exactly what. Is it every letter and statement sent and received since my SAR or only certain ones i.e prelim, response to offer, LBA, particulars of claim and N1. is your list for when you actually go to court or should i just do all of it now with my original N1 that im putting in.

 

any advice PLEASE!!!!!

[aardvark the lecturer]

That was the court bundle, NOT the N1.

 

You only submit copies of your N1 and schedule of charges (I think this is in triplicate? Check the template section for info, I went MCOL on my case).

[Guest bluecloud]

For my manual claim, I submitted three copies of the N1 (two pages each) and with each copy of the N1 I attached a full copy of the schedule of charges. My schedule of charges included all of the "Charges as Notified", the interest accrued for each charge, totals and an extra entry below the main list stating that interest accrues further at 8% or (in my case) 24 pence per day.

 

To make it easy for the court I punched a single hole in the top-left corner of the pile of papers and bound them together with a treasury tag.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

.

[jonni2bad]

hi johnny, sorry for jumping on the thread but could you tell me if the list earlier in the thread was what you originally put in with your N1

 

Hi

 

aardvark is correct above - when submitting you claim you don't include the items listed in the bundle exchange. I'm some way down the line with my case so you will see different things being exchanged.

 

Let's hope you don't go that far, and if it is just a money claim then I doubt you will.

 

Keep reading the FAQ section whenever you get a spare moment

 

24 days to go

[sylvester181]

Hi

I have requested statements within the branch at the Halifax for three accounts. I was told I would receive these within 7 to 10 days. I then received a letter 14 days later asking me for £15. After many attempts to pay this to someone who knew what it was for I still haven't received my statements.

When they do arrive am I able to go back 6 years?

 

I have also requested this information from Barclaycard who say that I need to pay £3.00 per statement plus £10 fee is this correct?

 

I would be grateful for any advice.

[maybelline]

Hi I believe you are requestion a list of transactions and charges, so this is information as opposed to duplicate statements although my bank just sent all the duplicate statements from ac opening which was 1994. My letter offered a payment of ten pounds to be debited from my account and they took £5, which I think many people have paid also.

 

good luck I am sure someone will point you in the right direction if I am wrong on this.

[jonni2bad]

Received a surprise in the post - a Witness Statement!

 

Some new documents too......... way past the deadline for exchange.

 

Will report back with text of Statement once I've clarified a couple of legal issues.

[Bookworm]

What are these people ON???

 

Write to the judge to complain about it (I have a lovely letter I used for mine if you want ;-)), with a bit of luck, the new evidence will get disregarded.

 

Save me trawling all the way through your thread, when is your hearing again?

[jonni2bad]

OK - Date of court hearing is 2 weeks today, 10th Nov. Having reviewed what they have now sent, the only real difference is a copy of the terms and conditions of the account.... I'm not going to contest this.

 

Here is a copy of their Witness Statement - and before you ask, this is WORD FOR WORD, any errors and missing pieces are down to them!!! (Just the odd XXXX being used to blank out names and values)

 

*****************************************************

 

1. I am a litigation Solicitor employed within the Legal Services Department of the Retail Division of HBOS PLC and I have conduct of these proceedings on behalf of the Defendant.

 

2. I am duly authorised to make this witness statement on behalf of the Defendant and the evidence contained herein his based upon my examination of the Defendant’s records relating to the joint account held by the Claimant and XXXX with the Defendant under the Defendant’s roll number XXXXXXXX (“the Account“) which was opened in 1987.

 

3. The Claimant's claim is divided into two parts, namely, (1) the refund of bank charges applied to the Account during 2000 - 2003, and (2) the removal of the default notice registered with the Credit Reference Agencies.

 

4. There is now produced and shown to me marked "RAH 1" a copy of the claim form, and the particulars of claim.

 

5. Paragraph 5 of the particulars of claim set out what the claimant is claiming, and accordingly the Defendant submits that (a), (b) and © have been settled in full as the Defendant has, without admission of liability refunded the bank charges applied to the Account as claimed, together with interest up to the date of payment, this being the full amount of the Claimant's monetary claim, and the Court was notified of this by way of letter dated 19th June 2006 attached and exhibited at "RAH 2".

 

6. The element of the Claimant's claim relating to bank charges is therefore no longer in issue and the only outstanding issue for the Court to hear does not relate to bank charges, but relates to the Claimant's request for the removal of the default notice from the Claimant's Credit Reference File.

 

7. A default notice is a record on a credit file that states that the default has occurred on an account, and in the Claimant's case, the default relates to the Account being persistently overdrawn with no agreed overdraft facility.

 

8. When the claimant opened the Account, he would have been provided with a number of leaflets, one of which details how the Defendant uses personal information. There is now produced and shown to me marked "RAH 3" a leaflet similar or the same as the leaflet that would have been provided to the Claimant.

 

9. The first leaflet is headed "About You" and states at page 3:

Credit Referencing

After you open a credit based product we will provide the agency with regular information about how you use it, including any changes to your personal information such as previous or subsequent names. The lenders may use this to make decisions on future applications for credit. It may also be used for tracing debtors and to prevent fraud.

10. Credit Referencing Agencies collate financial information relating to almost every adult and information recorded is a means of providing factual information to help organisations and institutions decide whether to accept or decline applications for credit. A credit record therefore has to be an accurate reflection of the status of the account so that organisations carrying out a check on a person that has made an application for credit is able to see whether that particular person has repaid money to the other lenders in the past.

 

11. There is now produced and shown to me marked "RAH 4" a copy of the terms and conditions of the Account, with the relevant terms and conditions highlighted at page

 

12. There is further produced and shown to me marked "RAH 5" a copy of a printout of the activity on the Account between 2000 - 2003.

 

13. The printouts show persistent and continuous periods when the Account had a debit balance, which was not permitted under the terms and conditions of the Account. This is indicated by "Dr".

 

14. The charges applied to the Account are also highlighted and I would respectfully refer the Court to pages 62 - 72 of Exhibit "RAH 5" from which it can be noted that the Account was overdrawn for almost the whole of March, April, June, July, August, September, October and November 2003, which is prior to the default notice being registered against the Account.

 

15. The Court will also note that prior to this there had been significant deposits in the account of £X and £X on page 14 and 51 respectively, but the Account had subsequently reverted back to having a debit balance.

 

16. The Defendant's records also show that in July 2003, the Claimant entered into a Reducing Overdraft Agreement with the Defendant arranged through the Defendant's collections and recoveries department.

 

17. At the time of the agreement, the Account had a debit balance of £805.93, and the Account had been persistently overdrawn and despite the Account being persistently overdrawn, the Defendant had not registered the default notice against the Account.

 

18. With the Reducing Overdraft Agreement in place, the charges and interest on the account were frozen on the Account and the Claimant made the £50.00 payment for July through to October. The Claimant broke the arrangement in October, and the Citizens Advice Bureau contacted the Defendant with a financial analysis.

 

19. The Claimant has since paid £X per month towards the outstanding balance on the Account.

 

20. The Defendant registered the default notice against the Account on 12th November 2003, after the payment plan had been broken by the Claimant.

 

21. The default was registered as a result of spending on the Account when there were insufficient funds available, which resulted in a continuous debit balance on the Account. The default was not registered as a result of the charges.

 

22. The Court is respectfully asked to note that the Defendant does not notify Credit Reference Agencies of charges incurred on an Account, and a default is not registered without persistent breaches of the terms and conditions of the Account.

 

23. The bundle of documents provided by the Claimant that states that the charges incurred outweigh the amount for which the default was registered.

 

24. The Defendant submits that this is irrelevant as the charges were not applied to the Account as one lump sum to take the Account into a debit balance. The Account was persistently in a debit balance with large credit being paid into the Account to take the Account into a credit balance, which subsequently reverted into a debit balance as a result of spending on the Account.

 

25. The Defendant assisted the Claimant's financial situation by entering into an agreement with the Claimant when the Defendant was on notice that the Claimant had financial difficulties. No default had been registered at this time.

 

26. However, the Defendant is under a duty to provide accurate information relating to the status of an account to Credit Reference Agencies to assist the organisations in accepting or declining Applications for Credit.

 

27. The Defendant therefore submits that the default has been registered accurately and accordingly the Claimant's credit file should not be amended so as to remove the default notice, as the file would not then be an accurate, and may not be in the best interests of the Claimant when applying for future credit.

 

28. I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement of true.

[MARTIN3030]

Hmnnnnn:shock:

Sounds almost like a letter from a solicitor:lol:

 

They are aware are they not that a credit reference agency has no legal substance ?

 

Also presumably they are aware that in processing your data adversly or otherwise after your account was closed without your consent was a blatant breach of the data protection act......

 

Looks loke the bank that is so quick to settle the money side is far less quick to settle the other issues.

Will not a Judge look at their admission of the refund of the money and glean something there ?

[Bookworm]

Debit balance at time of default: £ 805.

Bank Charges refunded: £ 2024.

 

And they think it's IRRELEVANT??? O-K then....

[jonni2bad]

Will not a Judge look at their admission of the refund of the money and glean something there ?

May do in the back of his mind, but it's not something that can be used in my favour.

 

Notice the total disregard for anything charge related - another case of "it's all your fault, we've done nothing wrong".

 

I'm looking forward to them finally facing the real issue when we sit in front of a Judge though Bookie!

[Bookworm]

Go get 'em, J. ;-)

[MARTIN3030]

M ....this could just be an oversight could it not ????????

 

Or another case of their calculators not having Duracel............in fact its possible that they had difficulty reading the figures in which case the Judge should order them all to go to specsavers..........

[jonni2bad]

Definitely NOT an oversight, just pure ridiculous incompetence.

 

Remember my phone call to them where they suggested that the default could not be removed because ALL of my charges had been incurred after the default was issued?

 

You couldn't make this up.....

[Bookworm]

Thing is, you can still try to get this "statement" (how is a solicitor also a witness in banking and default matters, btw?) disregarded if you complain to the judge. It's certainly worth a try, you shouldn't let anything go unchallenged if you can. At the very least, it will show the judge that they are not bothered about respecting deadlines and so on. No harm in a bit of psychological warfare, I say... And there is always the off-chance the judge will agree not to accept the statement!