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    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
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David Parry

Orange demand i have to pay £2500!! for calls on stolen phone.......

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Hello All I Need Your Help!!

 

Last week I had my Phone stolen from me while on my Uni christmas night out. However, i Thought I had just mis-placed it so didn't cancel the contract for a few days hoping it would turn up somewhere.

 

Yesterday I contacted Orange to see if the person who had stolen my phone had made any international calls...I was told in the space of 2-3 days £2500 had been spent on my phone and that I had to pay it all back.

 

I asked them... Considering my monthly payments are around £12 .. How come when they saw that my phone had made say £50 worth of calls, that they didn't cancel it or at least contact me on my home phone number or e-mail??

 

I was told that sometimes the computerised system can't keep up with all the data from all the people who use Orange in the UK and doesn't always detect faults such as this.

 

However, I was also told straight after the above, that the £2500 had been accumulated over a matter of around 2-3 days, so they obviously knew that it was happening.

 

I need any advice you can give me!, I am the victim of a crime (my phone being stolen) and I'm being faced with the charges, it doesn't seem quite fair does it?

 

As a 20 year old lad In his first year of University there is no chance I will be able to pay it back..I want to take this as high as I can to ensure I don't have to pay any of it and any help you can give me would be truley truley appriciated.

 

Thank you & Best wishes!!

 

David Parry

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Hello All I Need Your Help!!

 

 

 

Last week I had my Phone stolen from me while on my Uni christmas night out. However, i Thought I had just mis-placed it so didn't cancel the contract for a few days hoping it would turn up somewhere.

 

 

 

Yesterday I contacted Orange to see if the person who had stolen my phone had made any international calls...I was told in the space of 2-3 days £2500 had been spent on my phone and that I had to pay it all back.

 

 

 

I asked them... Considering my monthly payments are around £12 .. How come when they saw that my phone had made say £50 worth of calls, that they didn't cancel it or at least contact me on my home phone number or e-mail??

 

 

 

I was told that sometimes the computerised system can't keep up with all the data from all the people who use Orange in the UK and doesn't always detect faults such as this.

 

 

 

However, I was also told straight after the above, that the £2500 had been accumulated over a matter of around 2-3 days, so they obviously knew that it was happening.

 

 

 

I need any advice you can give me!, I am the victim of a crime (my phone being stolen) and I'm being faced with the charges, it doesn't seem quite fair does it?

 

 

 

As a 20 year old lad In his first year of University there is no chance I will be able to pay it back..I want to take this as high as I can to ensure I don't have to pay any of it and any help you can give me would be truley truley appriciated.

 

 

 

Thank you & Best wishes!!

 

 

 

David Parry

 

 

 

 

 

I do not understand why you would not have phoned orange immediately and had the sim card barred, had the phone then turned up you could have got a new sim card or your own one turned back on. I think you have been very foolish in not reporting to orange that it was lost.

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Hi welcome to Cag, the problem here is that you did not report this loss immediately and I suspect that there is a clause in the contract regarding the time scale reporting this.

 

Is this purely data useage?

 

Your only way foreward is to write to Orange and give your reasons for considering that the debt is not yours I agree that the system should have picked up on the massive over useage maybe a £100 or so could be over looked by the monitoring system but this is far too much.


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Agreed that it was foolish to not report it missing straight away that was my mistake,, but surely they cannot charge me that much!! i have lost all faith in humanity if i have to pay it all back! Are there any other companies that can help me with my problem that you know of??

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As said yuo will have to write, no e-mails or phone calls so as to keep a proper paper trail, cannot think how any company other than a form of solicitors would be able to help.

 

We do have Orange company reps here I will try to alert one for you, but it is holliday time, so contact may not be quick.


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Cheers mate if you could alert the Orange people that'd be great!! Im willing to take this right to the top, i've alrede alerted newspapers and radio stations about my problem, as u can tell im bloody desperate!! Id happily go to court if i had to

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Cheers mate if you could alert the Orange people that'd be great!! Im willing to take this right to the top, i've alrede alerted newspapers and radio stations about my problem, as u can tell im bloody desperate!! Id happily go to court if i had to

I've alerted the site team so hopefully we may here something soon.


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David,

 

I really do believe that in many cases people like you are being robbed by the NetworKs. You may want to look into this deeper.

 

When you say 'international calls' it's possible these calls are not genuine international calls. They may be 'premium rate calls' that are using international numbers that have been set aside for that purpose. If they are then they are 'revenue share' numbers that Orange is profiting from.

 

The crook that stole your phone and called the numbers will be the same person that 'owns' the numbers.

 

If the calls show abnormal call patterns that indicates they were being made to generate Artificial Inflated Traffic (AIT) then Orange will have clauses in their carrier interconnect billing agreements to not pass on this revenue and even 'claw back' any revenue that has already been paid.

 

There is absolutely no reason why you or Orange or anybody should have to be out of pocket due to this kind of criminal activity.

 

Could you post the numbers that were called and the times and durations.

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Thanks people! you guys are helping me to calm down a bit and realise its not the end of the world...

 

as for the numbers, times and durations and do not know that now, but will ring up tomorro and find out then post it back on here..?

 

you seem to know what you're talking about so yehman i wanna keep you close!

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0021623541053 - this number keeps calling me, I haven't answered any of the calls, any ideas who it could be?

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0021623541053 - this number keeps calling me, I haven't answered any of the calls, any ideas who it could be?

 

Turns up nothing on my search.

Call the number from and landline and with hold your number.


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As said yuo will have to write, no e-mails or phone calls so as to keep a proper paper trail, cannot think how any company other than a form of solicitors would be able to help.

 

We do have Orange company reps here I will try to alert one for you, but it is holliday time, so contact may not be quick.

 

Orange reps are few and far between on CAG. I believe they are active on twitter, but only rarely appear here on CAG.

 

Goodwill's suggestion is the best... There is a good chance that the number that the thieves called was for profit, and Orange share this profit, so they are wanting to benefit from this robbery.


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Turns up nothing on my search.

Call the number from and landline and with hold your number.

 

00216 is Tunisia ......

002162 includes Bizerte, Nabeul and Zaghouan

http://countrycode.org/tunisia

Edited by BazzaS

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