DWP admits covering up your right to a Recorded Assesment

[Invalidation]

From Atos Victims group website

 

Yesterday, the DWP disclosed that it has been sitting on legal advice, for over two years, to the effect that its WCA recording rules​ were illegal

 

Legal advice has been obtained to confirm that recording of assessments for claimants must be allowed without unreasonable obstructions

[reallymadwoman]

See this post for further information and a link to the original information a few posts further back

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336827-Announcement-ESA-claimants-now-have-the-option-of-having-their-WCA-recorded&p=4085078&viewfull=1#post4085078

[Conniff]

As we have said numerous times, make your own recording, you do not have to tell them you are recording and it would be a safeguard for the future.

[Invalidation]

See this post for further information and a link to the original information a few posts further back

 

The problem is. If the ATOS person tumbles you are recording they can then terminate the Assessment. Considering some people are in a hell of a state when attending the assessment they wouldnt want another date and time. Its OK for some of us that might be able to take another daye but some simply cant or dont have the technical know how to make a covert recording

Armed with this new information ATOS no longer have the right to refuse a proper recording.

The document RFP27 should simply be quoted when asking for the Assessment to be recorded or the assessment deferred untill they have the equipment installed.

 

Search on Google for RFP27 and youll find the document as I cant post a link to it here

Edited December 23, 2012 by Invalidation

[Nystagmite]

As we have said numerous times, make your own recording, you do not have to tell them you are recording and it would be a safeguard for the future.

 

Isn't the only rule that you can't do certain things with it? That is, you can't upload it to a public website, etc.

[Invalidation]

If you make a recording it is your own recording to do what you want with it.

 

This thread is about how the DWP have covered up your legal right to demand a recording from ATOS and they cannot refuse.

The Document RFP27 also shows how ATOS are breaking their contract with the DWP

[antone]

Isn't the only rule that you can't do certain things with it? That is, you can't upload it to a public website, etc.

 

The DWP's position is that by uploading it to a public website you have in effect published it, and potentially made yourself into a Data Controller under the terms of the DPA. Whether that position is defensible at law I don't know, but it is the argument they use.

[Pollik]

If the ATOS person tumbles you are recording they can then terminate the Assessment.

 

On what legal grounds?

 

 

Polly

[nolegion]

On no legal grounds the DWP has ever established,Pollik

 

It's a position the DWP takes which relies on bullying and intimidation, because the incident will be reported as a failure by the claimant to submit to a medical - and your benefits will be immediately refused, unless and until you can muster the health and finances to take them to court months (or in the case of further appeal, quite possibly, years) later. A disgraceful situation.

 

On a more cheerful note I would like to acknowledge that point of antone's in post #7 above. That is exactly what the DWP has been arguing, for a long time now, but I am glad to say the 'FoI community' at WDTK is well on the case!

 

So here’s a happier Xmas story:-

 

Mr Mustard doesn't like Barnet council; as in, he really, really doesn't like Barnet Council.

 

The feeling is entirely mutual, not least because Mr Mustard is inclined to do careful research about e.g. spending habits and proposals,and link them to the personal details of councillors and officers, and then - blow me down (!) –publish his findings and opinions online in a blog enthusiastically followed by whatever the collective noun is for people who live in Barnet.

 

Back in 2010, a rather tearful 'corporate governance department' of the London Borough of Barnet complained to the InformationCommissioner's Office, that this all (sob!) just wasn't fair, and Mr Mustard really, really ought to stop it.

 

In correspondence which still brings tears of joy to my eyes to read, right to the end, the London Borough of Barnet went down in flames,at the hands of the ICO.

 

If you have the patience, I promise you the link is worth careful consideration. Don't peek now (!), but the last memo is an accidental disclosure by the ICO itself:-

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/94886/response/237295/attach/2/R%20IRQ0426076%20ICO%20Barnet%20correspondence%20re%20ENQ0391446.pdf

 

The principal relevance to the thread lies in s 36 DPA, of course: the DWP's erroneous arguments under the Data Protection Act are undergoing a similar DPA\FoI process of being ridiculed to death. With serious intent.

 

Could we all regroup at the main thread, now? :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336827-Announcement-ESA-claimants-now-have-the-option-of-having-their-WCA-recorded/page48

Edited December 23, 2012 by nolegion

[Invalidation]

On what legal grounds?

Polly

 

Whilst a claimant has a right to record what they wish, the Assessor also has every right not to agree to it and leave. You cant force anyone to be recorded.

 

Theres an old saying that goes, Your rights end where my rights begin, and that swings for both parties.

[Invalidation]

 

Could we all regroup at the main thread, now? :-

 

Why? the other thread contains nothing about this new revelation by the DWP

[Crazy Diamond]

Why? the other thread contains nothing about this new revelation by the DWP

 

What, apart from the original post?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336827-Announcement-ESA-claimants-now-have-the-option-of-having-their-WCA-recorded&p=4074446&viewfull=1#post4074446 dated 11/12.

[Crazy Diamond]

And in case people are still confused about the covert recording legalities and surrounding:

 

Covertly recording your Atos assessment by, well, me.

[nancyrowina]

As we have said numerous times, make your own recording, you do not have to tell them you are recording and it would be a safeguard for the future.

 

Problem with that is the court can say it's inadmissible because you could have altered it. And it's all very well saying an expert could verify that you hadn't but who's going to pay for that? DWP certainly won't.

[Invalidation]

Problem with that is the court can say it's inadmissible because you could have altered it. And it's all very well saying an expert could verify that you hadn't but who's going to pay for that? DWP certainly won't.

 

So you transcribe the recording and provide that. along with your annotaions of what their report claimed. If there was any serious discrepancy between what was on the assessment report and what you claimed I doubt any respectable judge and Doctor would dismiss it out of hand unless it was obvious there was some serious tampering

[Crazy Diamond]

Problem with that is the court can say it's inadmissible because you could have altered it. And it's all very well saying an expert could verify that you hadn't but who's going to pay for that? DWP certainly won't.

 

That's not how it works; if you submit evidence, it's up to the other party, not the judge, to raise objections. For them to do so would be to suggest that you have deliberately falsified evidence, and they can't just say that just like that without opening a new can of worms for themselves.

 

Remember, he who accuse must prove. If they accuse you of tampering with the recording, they'd have to prove it to the judge's satisfaction.

[Invalidation]

Has anyone noted there is no provision for recording of assesments/switchovers for PIP ?

[Crazy Diamond]

Yup.

[Nystagmite]

can't say that surprises me.

[Crazy Diamond]

After the 20 meters stitch-up, nothing surprises me any more. I thought they'd already hit rock bottom with quite a few of these so-called reforms, but have since found out that they'd barely started digging, it's getting to be the Mariana Trenches of deceit and exploitation out there.

[RaeUK]

Aren't the House of Lords yet to harumph over the proposed changes?

[Crazy Diamond]

Yep, and what a great deal of good that's going to achieve.