Errors on Bailiffs Certificate Is it still legal?

[Guest danzer72]

I'm hoping that someone might know if a Certificate that contains numerous error is still legal? It took about 9 months but I finally received a copy of the Bailiff certificate from JBW .

 

The copy JBW sent had his name spelt incorrectly ,no name of company and the Building name incorrectly spelt and the name of the street is also different.

 

I have been trying to get a straight answer from Leeds court and started this process in July, I've sent 3 emails, faxed letters and sent letters by post finally after losing patience I phoned the court and was informed that I have been corresponding with the Court Bailiffs so no wonder I didn't get a response .

 

I then wrote to the Court Manager and lo and behold a letter form the Enforcement letter arrived.

 

But unfortunately did not make any sense. Basically it did not confirm the dates the Baffle certificate run from and too . Did not address the issue with the spelling errors.

 

So I phoned the number on the letter tried to speak to the chap who wrote this letter, to be informed he no longer works for this department and a young chap called Richard ( no surname) phoned me back the following day to verbally reassure me that the Bailiff cert is valid and that the certificate is written by the Bailiff himself and it is just signed by the judge so he wouldn't know that it contained all theses errors.......................... one of which is the Bailiffs own name?

 

I was more than concerned by this so I wrote again to ask for his comments in writing and have just received another letter . Again not confirming that this Bailiff was certified as working for JBW at the time of the Visit just that they say the Certificate was a vaild certificate? and I would need to seek legal advice as to the the legality of a Bailiff Certificate with spelling errors .

 

Also they have refused to inform the Judge of the errors as they do not correspond with litigants.

 

Also just to add to this puzzle.

 

In July 2012 when eventually JBW sent me a copy of the Bailiffs Cert I immediately checked on the Register and he was on there but working for JBS Debt and Not JBW Group.

 

This was no surprise as this was the certificate he showed me on the 25/08/11 . I asked him at the time why was it JBS and not JBW he said it was the same company. At the time I didn't question this as I knew no different.

 

I am feeling just a bit down at the moment as it seems every agency involved in this simple parking violation seems to have let the law and right of us mere members of the public go by the wayside.

 

.A violation, incidentally, I had nothing to do with as I was in hospital at the time ,however , do accept responsibility as I was the registered keeper at the time.

 

As an update if anyone is interested the LGO have confirmed they have written to the Local Council and are expecting a response mid January.

 

I do follow everything on here so if there is any advice that will make me feel better I'd be grateful.

[ploddertom]

I'm interested in what you have had to say above. Having looked at the Bailiff Register I can find no trace of any firm like JBS Debt. There can be no excuse for the misspelling of his name and in my view unless the error was very minor - Gray instead of Grey - then I would suggest his Bond Insurance Certificate would be invalid. Just think you insure your car as Reg No SN52REG have a bump, go to claim & realise it should have been SN51REG then I'm sure the Insurance Co will tell you to sling your hook - also Police ANPR would flag you up as no Insurance.

[Guest danzer72]

Thank you for taking the time to look.

 

I have a cut and paste copy of the register in July when JBS Debt Collection & Enforcement , European House,93 Wellington Road ,Leeds LS12 1D"was on there with the Bailiff .......................... as certified Bailiff. and when I looked in to it I found the company with him as the director.

This is when I contacted the court but received no response.

 

The ................................. I found as a director of a property management in Essex and the address details on the Certificate is Response House 16 Hennett Street,London EC2A 3 NN.

 

Although the correct address is -

 

JBW Group, Reponse House 16 Hewett Street same postcode. And I don't understand why the cert copy sent to me by JBW's legal department would have these errors and omission of the companies name.

 

How would any one know this was a certificate for JBW Group as the address on the letter heading is completely different from the one on the certificate?

 

Its more than just one simple spelling error!

Edited December 22, 2012 by danzer72
spelling error

[ploddertom]

Can you edit your post to remove the Bailiff's names please.

[old bill]

Thank you for taking the time to look.

 

I have a cut and paste copy of the register in July when JBS Debt Collection & Enforcement , European House,93 Wellington Road ,Leeds LS12 1D"was on there with the Bailiff .......................... as certified Bailiff. and when I looked in to it I found the company with him as the director.

This is when I contacted the court but received no response.

 

The ................................. I found as a director of a property management in Essex and the address details on the Certificate is Response House 16 Hennett Street,London EC2A 3 NN.

 

Although the correct address is -

 

JBW Group, Reponse House 16 Hewett Street same postcode. And I don't understand why the cert copy sent to me by JBW's legal department would have these errors and omission of the companies name.

 

How would any one know this was a certificate for JBW Group as the address on the letter heading is completely different from the one on the certificate?

 

Its more than just one simple spelling error!

 

A bailiff certificate is a legal document and some errors can have a bearing on its validity. However, it will depend on the nature of the error(s) as to whether the certificate is invalid.

[Guest danzer72]

Thanks Old Bill .

 

I'm going to file a form 4 as I believe the cert to be invalid.

 

The bailiff can explain to the Judge why he spelt his own name incorrectly and why the address of the company is incorrect.

[old bill]

The fact there is no employer's name on the certificate would make it potentially invalid.

 

Do not submit a Form 4 complaint yet. I would write to the District Judge at the court that issued the bailiff's certificate and ask if they wish you to submit a Form 4 complaint. Make sure you enclose ALL available evidence with your letter. Also, please be aware that a bailiff's certificate can be cancelled on the strength of a letter to the District Judge, as has happened, this current year, to a Ross & Roberts bailiff.

[Guest danzer72]

Thank you Old Bill,

 

I did suggest the Enforcment Manager might want to notify the Judge that this Bailiff has submitted a certificate that has no many irregularities and he said they do not contact the Judge directly and that I should seek legal advice.

 

I did think that I should contact the Judge directly as I'm not at all happy with the Enforcement Managers letters they are really confusing.

 

On the cert there is no number? surly there should be a number?

 

What do you think

[old bill]

If the certificate contains a number of errors and omissions, then, in my judgement, I would say that there is a case to answer as to whether the certificate is valid and whether the bailiff is, in fact, authorised to levy distress, in accordance with the Distress for Rent Rules 1988.

 

I would strongly advise against filing a Form 4 complaint, at present, and restrict this to a letter to the District Judge at the court which issued the certificate seeking direction as to whether a Form 4 complaint should be submitted. You never know, the letter you receive back may, indeed, confirm the certificate is invalid.

[Guest danzer72]

Thanks Old Bill.

 

I have the email of the Judges Clerks or should I direct this to the Court?

 

I will begin this process on receipt of your advice and let CAG know the outcome.

 

Cheers j

[tomtubby]

In making a Form 4 Complaint you are effectively asking a Judge to consider removing the bailiff certificate from the bailiff. The consequences of this would be that the bailiff would no longer be able to work as a bailiff again and be unemployed. It is for this reason that any Form 4 Complaint needs to be in relation to very serious wrongdoing by the bailiff. I would personally not consider at present that your complaint should be one for a Form 4 Complaint.

 

My personal opinion is that the bailiff registered as a SELF EMPLOYED bailiff using the name of JBS Debt Collection and it is just a coincidence that he is working for JBW Group. I could be wrong but I suggest that you email the Court Clerk to make enquiries.

[old bill]

In making a Form 4 Complaint you are effectively asking a Judge to consider removing the bailiff certificate from the bailiff. The consequences of this would be that the bailiff would no longer be able to work as a bailiff again and be unemployed. It is for this reason that any Form 4 Complaint needs to be in relation to very serious wrongdoing by the bailiff. I would personally not consider at present that your complaint should be one for a Form 4 Complaint.

 

My personal opinion is that the bailiff registered as a SELF EMPLOYED bailiff using the name of JBS Debt Collection and it is just a coincidence that he is working for JBW Group. I could be wrong but I suggest that you email the Court Clerk to make enquiries.

 

I would tend to agree with you in this respect, TT. The bailiff's employment status does need to be confirmed. Contacting the Chief Clerk of the Court is, probably, the best course of action at present.

[Guest danzer72]

Thank you for your in put TT I have written numerous times to the Manager of the Enforcement section and have got quite confusing responses.

 

This bailiff in question is the director of JBS Debt and is listed as such .

 

JBW have a contract with LA and are not allowed give PCN warrants to third party bailiffs . Notwithstanding that JBW have stated that this bailiff was 'no longer employed' by them.

[Guest danzer72]

Have written to the Clerk of the Judge. So will see what the response is..................will let CAG know.

[Guest danzer72]

Have received a letter from the Clerk of the Judge who signed the Bailiffs cert and they have written to the bailiff for conformation of his details.

Will update cag as we go along.

[Guest danzer72]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41087[/ATTACH]Update for cag,

 

 

I'm not sure what to do now. How would I find out if this bailiff cert is valid?

 

 

Any suggestions anyone.

 

PS. I still haven't heard back from the LGO yet.

[ploddertom]

Too small to read, please convert to a PDF

[Guest danzer72]

:sad:I have just had the provisional finding for the LGO. And for some reson I can't get my head around they are going with Bromley unless i can bring more evidence but how can I proved that a bailiff did not come to the house?

 

 

 

I have attached the docs. I have no idea how to make them in to PDF . i hope they can be read,

[tomtubby]

Danzer,

I am most interested in this thread but CANNOT in any way address the querytoday. Personally, I have serious concerns that Bromley have NOT correctlyunderstood the effects of an Out of Time witness statement or a "RevokingOrder". Firstly, the "revoking order" does NOT revoke the Noticeto owner. This is a significant error by Bromley.

Unless I am reading this incorrectly, it would APPEAR that Bromley are ofthe opinion that after you had attended court you were supposed to then fileANOTHER Out of Time Application and that they were surprised that the judge didnot stipulate in his order the time frame that he would give for you to filethe application.

If I am correct ( in my reading of the statement from Bexley) then they are WRONG.

Also, it would seem from the provisional finding from the LGO that Bexley Council are agreeing to repay you approx £150. How much have you paid to the bailiff and how much of this was for the PCN?

What was the basis of why you had made the Out of Time application? For instance...had you appeal the PCNand not received a response or possibly you had not received any of the notices.

This is a subject matter that I am personally VERY interested in and once that is very must misunderstood by many local authorities, bailiff companies and even courts....

Last point, you had applied on an N244 to "review" the court officers order. The court are supposed to return the file back to TEC with a copy of the Judge's decision. I am surprised that they had not done this and instead, it would seem that the filed was not returned for many months. Has the court provided a reason why they did not return the file sooner?

 

[tomtubby]

Danzer,

 

When you made the complaint to the LGO had you also complained at the fees that had been applied to your account by JBW Group?

 

Out of interest...did the baiiff company charge a "closing fee of £5 or an "appraisal fee" of £20. I would be MOST interested to know...!!!

[Guest danzer72]

Thanks Tomtubby for your message.

 

The Council fine is 157.00 and the bailiff charges are

22.07.2011 closing fee 5.00

22.07.2011 letter fee 11.20

22.08.2011 attendance to levy 1 48.00

25.08.11 attendance to remove 175.00

25.08.11 levy fee 58.00

25.08.2011 appraisal 20.00 total 317.20

 

I got the full amount back from the cc company.

 

In court Bromley council did not use the information they stated in the statement of truth ( which was not signed either) only that the fine had been paid. I presented to the court that the fine had not been paid by me and showed the evidence form the cc company the Judge said I could submit another oot witness statement.

 

When I left the court I understood that Bromley was going to write to me and send another OOT form but they did not I then contacted Northampton and they asked me to send the judges order .

I did this and they sent a letter revoking the warrant.

 

I know you may think that I should have left it at this but I'm so angry that the Council feel that sending thugs to a woman's home with a sick son is the appropriate for a parking ticket I have not refused responsibility for only that I did not know about it as I was in hospital at the time and did not park the car.

 

I received nothing in the post but there are issues here with the post being misposted.

 

I have letters for other people with a similar address. I went to court with this evidence.As Bromley just kept saying the fine was paid I wasn't asked about it.

 

Also I delivered personally the only second correspondence from JBW the day AFTER the bailiff came it was a 'notice to remove' but this was also 'lost in the post' as it was allegedly posted by Bromley but again I did not receive it . Fortunately I did make a copy .

 

I have also had a letter from Leeds Court enforcement manager who finally got the bailiff to admit he made a spelling error with his own name , but ignored the fact that the address is mis spelt as well.

 

As you can tell I have tried hard to get to the bottom of the validity of the Bailiffs certificate but have been informed I would need to seek legal advice !!!

The LGO have said I should take the bailiffe to court but I believe its Bromley responsibility .

Edited February 7, 2013 by danzer72

[ploddertom]

Thread tidied up.

[tomtubby]

What you have is merely a "provisional" decision. You now have approx 2 weeks in which to put together a good response.

[Guest danzer72]

Update on the bailiffs cert.

 

Just received an email the confirmed that Mr W is still a cert bailiff working for JBS Enforcement and not JBW Group.

 

I have emailed them back to clarify if a bailiff can have two certs running side by side,can Mr W be certified as a bailiff for JBS Enforcemnt at the same time of JBW Group?

 

Also the warrant was issued to Mr W 22 July 2011 when he defiantly had a bailiff cert for JBS Enforcemnt and not JBW Group.

 

Can a L/A do this if their service contract is with just Swift and JBW Group and do not allow third party bailiffs to collect on PCN fines.

 

I have raised this with the council but they have just ignored me.

[ploddertom]

I was under the impression this was finally heard earlier this week but imagine owing to the silence the case was lost. Of course I stand to be corrected.