A POPLA decision. but how POPLA will it be

[Dublindel]

Appealed against Car Parking Partnership to. POPLA. CPP say I was there for 11 minutes and I say I was there for 8 minutes. Thier evidence, time stamped photos and ticket time adds up to 8 minutes. Grace period is apparently 10 minutes. To you and me, this sounds like an open and shut case, but POPLA is funded ny the BPA, so let's see how independent they really are. If independent, I win hands down, if a BPA puppet then we proceed on to court. Will keep you all informed. Wil also inform the DVLA, Norman Baker, OFT, Watchdog, Plain Language Commissioocal MP and many more. Merry Xmas to you all

[ericsbrother]

POPLA are owned by the parking companies. Why do people think that they will ever get any joy. I hope you complaints gain you some publicity and you ignore the demands for cash

[Dublindel]

Demands for cash will have to go to the courts. My main interest is in exposing POPLA either as truly independent and follows all statute and contract law, including the unfair contract terms 1997. Or as you say, just a facade for the government/DVLA and a puppet for the BPA. I expect to win, otherwise a lot of people and institutions will become involved. I don't take on fights I can't win. This one will be a walk in the park.

[ericsbrother]

POPLA along with the BPA are limited companies, nothing more. The government may listen to them as a trade body but they can also choose to ignore them.

[DBC]

Of course the one big elephant in the room for the PPC is this from the DFT:-

 

Charges for breaking a parking contract must be reasonable and a genuine preestimate of loss. This means charges must compensate the landholder only for the loss they are likely to suffer because the parking contract has been broken. For example, to cover the unpaid charges and the administrative costs associated with issuing the ticket to recover the charges. Charges may not be set at higher levels than necessary to recover business losses and the intention should not be to penalise the driver.

 

So how is the PPC going to be able to justify the charge of ( I guess) £60+ for a few minutes overstay?

[esmerobbo]

POPLA are owned by the parking companies. Why do people think that they will ever get any joy. I hope you complaints gain you some publicity and you ignore the demands for cash

 

POPLA along with the BPA are limited companies, nothing more. The government may listen to them as a trade body but they can also choose to ignore them.

 

POPLA is paid for by the BPA but is actually run by the London councils. We are yet too see how independent they are?

[Dublindel]

The charge is actually £100 as actual losses but they did offer to cost themselves a whole £60 in losses to help me out and I pay £40. Strange how they chase so hard to lose £60. Anyway! Hopefully by the end of January. I will be able to report back with either POPLA - Fair play or POPLA - The puppet people. What's your guess

[instrumentsofjoy]

Glad you got to test them!! Of course you know the POPLA decision is only binding on the PPC and not on you.

Edited December 19, 2012 by instrumentsofjoy
typo

[Dublindel]

Yes I'm fully aware, but thanks. As you say, its time for POPLA to show its hand and I am champing at the bit to get stuck in if they show themselves to be puppets

[afcwben]

I shall be watching this with interest

[Dublindel]

A thought.... If POPLA rejects and a Court accepts.... Where does that leave POPLA credibility. This is going to be intresting

[cream70]

POPLA is paid for by the BPA but is actually run by the London councils. We are yet too see how independent they are?

 

I will await with interest.

Nick Lester

Current: Corporate Director of Services at London

Councils

President at European Parking Association

 

Council

Member at British Parking Association

 

Past: Director of Transport,

Environment and Planning at London Councils

Chief Executive at Transport

Committee for London

London Parking Director at Parking Committee for London

 

 

 

 

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/nick-lester/9/382/97b

[Dublindel]

I will be chasing CPP to get thier evidence presented. I am so desperate for a decision because if I lose then POPLA are puppets, and if I win then the BPA needs a change in policy

[steveod]

POPLA is paid for by the BPA but is actually run by the London councils. We are yet too see how independent they are?

 

Doesn't matter what decisions they make they are not independent. The BPA put the appeals process out to tender and awarded it to London councils. Possibly due to the fact they would agree to the BPAs list of points that can be appealed and there are London council employees on the BPA board.the BPA of course has members of the PPCs sitting on it, so these London council employees and these Ppc board members have a nice cosy relationship. It will be one of my challenges to popla in that they are not an independant body And Ias the RK cannot be held liable due to the process not being fair as POPLA is not an independent body and until they are a completely independent body as far as the appeal points, appointments etc are totally not made by the BPA or any of its members. I will use the following in support:

R -v- The Secretary of State for the Home Department ex parte Doody

[1994] 1 AC 531 at 560, per Lord Mustill : “Where an Act of Parliament confers an administrative power there is a presumption that it will be exercised in a manner

which is fair in all the circumstances.”

 

I believe the act of parliament, PoFA and/or Schedule 4, confers an administrative power on the IAS. This can be seen in the DoT guidance as well as the statements made by the Home Office minister in parliament leading up to the Act becoming legislation that there would be a fully independent appeals body. I am therefore not challenging PoFA or schedule 4 which I believe would possibly require a JR, but I will appeal POPLA as being able to carry out a fair administrative power.

 

dont know if it will succeed but worth a shot.

[Dublindel]

Can't argue with you on your points, especially after my phonecall to POPLA today. I got my appeal in on the first day of the 28 day allowance on Dec 14. I asked how long the PPC has to respond to POPLA once they are notified, I would assume that being a balanced appeal system, it would also be 28 days. (balanced is a tongue in cheek remark). The woman put me on hold while she checked the procedures and came back with the following reply. RING THE BPA FOR ADVICE. I did make a previous call to POPLA in late December with the same query and was told that I send in my appeal to POPLA and they send my evidence and statements off to the PPC who then has the opportunity to tailor their responses to my appeal. And he said that no time limit was set for the PPC to respond. Now whichever response you wish to believe, I just keep thinking I will wake up soon and realise it was just one of those weird dreams. But unfortunately.......

[Dublindel]

POPLA decision is in. As the PPC did not respond by the 3rd March the Assessor considered only my submissions and found in my favour. I received an appeal pack from Car Parking Partnership on the 16th March as did POPLA, almost 2 weeks too late. The issue was about a 10 minute grace period I parked for less than 8 minutes and CPP tried to suggest it was 11 minutes using time stamped photographic technology which was accurate but boosted the time to 11 minutes by claiming I was SEEN prior to using the camera, never a winning strategy. I think CPP missed the deadline due to incompetence and by being SWAMPED by appeals. POPLA are also SWAMPED with appeals and are struggling.

[DBC]

And it's been reported that about two thirds of the POPLA decisions are coming down on the side of the motorist.

[peanutsallergy]

POPLA seem to be by the book.

The do seem to follow the rules, and uphold appeals where they should if the procedure hasn't been followed.

They won't replace a court, and if the appeal's on a point of law, they seem to say let a judge decide, which again seems fair enough.

Have to watch and see, but I think it's a better option than ignore now.

[peanutsallergy]

And it's been reported that about two thirds of the POPLA decisions are coming down on the side of the motorist.

 

I reckon that'll come down as the PPC's play smarter, and tie down the signs, tickets, and procedures though.

[Dublindel]

Maybe, but they are not being very smart at the moment

[peanutsallergy]

Why?

[DBC]

Some PPCs ( such as Parking Eye are being very reluctant in giving out POPLA codes, even though they are supposed to do this when they send the rejection letter. This has been raised with the DVLA, who are "monitoring the situation".

[Dublindel]

Currently I think its best to appeal then appeal to POPLA then a cease and desist letter with the option of court. You have followed protocol and protected your backside. Now ignore. To many PPC's are starting to chance Thier arm with legal papers.

[Dublindel]

Currently I think its best to appeal then appeal to POPLA then a cease and desist letter with the option of court. You have followed protocol and protected your backside. Now ignore. To many PPC's are starting to chance Thier arm with legal papers.

[peanutsallergy]

Currently I think its best to appeal then appeal to POPLA then a cease and desist letter with the option of court. You have followed protocol and protected your backside. Now ignore. To many PPC's are starting to chance Thier arm with legal papers.

 

I don't think that makes them not being very smart though.