Is my Form 4 complaint justified? **Result + Compo Award**

[lgwarren]

Being new here, I will do my best to get the detail to you.

 

I have no debts, judgements, or other oustanding items.

I named my first born after me, some 27 years ago.

He moved out of my home in Sept this year.

 

I found a flyer in my letter box "REMOVAL 5pm TODAY" dated 20th Nov.

The bailiffs buzzed on my garden entrance intercom on 21st Nov.(3pm)

He said he had clamped my car and wanted £495ish or would remove it.

I told him that it was my car and I was not the person he was looking for.

He was rude, beligerant and somewhat threatening because he thought I was lying.

I called the police and after some time an officer turned up to stop any "breach of the peace"

The bailiff had no interest in my explanation of what the true circumstances were.

The officer entered my house, checked all my documentation and was wholly satisfied that I was indeed the owner of the vehicle, and that my son was indeed the debtor.

He relayed all those facts to the bailiff, and was perplexed at the bailiffs stance that he intended to leave my vehicle clamped. The officer felt that he had no power to act and suggested I ring the council, which I did. They saw that there indeed there could be an issue and I am led to believe they contacted Jacobs Bailiffs. After phone calls to and fro (me & council / me & Jacobs ) the bailiff left, leaving my car clamped and it was clamped for 24 hours before they came to release it. Because it was clamped in front of my garage, my wifes car was also unavailable.

 

I have processed a Form 4 complaint. Do you think I have a valid case.

 

There are two issues here. The wrongful clamping and the excessive and I believe illegal fees that they are attempting to charge my son. At this point I am only trying to deal with the clamping issue.

 

I have never been in debt in my life and they treat me like a common criminal.

[raydetinu]

In a word yes; all they had to do was check with vosa for the registered keeper.

claim for all out of pocket expenses, for the distress an inconvenience and the cost of making the claim, your time at £30/hr.

[i hate bailiffs]

Any fees the bailiffs have added on levy clamping fee ect must be removed as the levy invalid as not the debtors property

 

I would also go for the council as it is there agents and they are responsible for there actions copy in your local MP

 

I would make the complaint about the bailiff they nothing more than a playground bully the way they think they have the upper hand until now!!

 

Bailiff must get this weeks Numpty award if the police told him it was not the debtors car

 

who were the bailiff company??

[lgwarren]

The Bailiffs are Jacobs Certificated Bailiffs.

 

I have now spent hours and hours researching my rights and the actions that I am able to take, writing letters and making phone calls to my solicitor for advise. Is all this claimable?

The bailiffs said that they have called at my premises 3 times. It is a lie and both my wife and I will "testify" to that. The only paperwork that was seen was the flyer I mentioned. This whole affair has really got my back up.

Edited December 18, 2012 by lgwarren

[i hate bailiffs]

The Bailiffs are Jacobs Certificated Bailiffs.

 

this is the award for the numpty bailiffs Jacobs!!!

 

I would take this all the way with both bailiffs and the council

[TB Law]

You should approach the p;olice force and ask the attending officer for a statement, then file it as annexe to your form 4 complaint.

 

If the police decline your request, then get the CAD number for your 999 call you made, and quote it on the form 4 complaint statement, and the judge can requisition the officers notes for you.

[lgwarren]

I have requested this and am waiting for him to contact me. He really was perplexed at the bailiffs attitude but unfortunately felt he was powerless.

I did complain to the council, but their reply suggested that the bailiff had acted correctly. I actually think they are confused between my son and me (initially understandable, but in the circumstances they should be more careful). I have wriiten again to clarify the facts of my case, the wrongful clamping and urged them to re consider MY complaint.

Edited December 18, 2012 by lgwarren

[TB Law]

I would consider speaking to the Local Government Ombudsman and ask for an opinion and ask them to suggest a way to move the dispute forward.

[i hate bailiffs]

you will have to exhaust the council complaint procedure before taking it to the ombudsmen can be a long , slow process

 

It may be quicker to send the council a letter before action

then on the small claims court

[TB Law]

That is not quite right.

 

The complaints procedure has to be exaused before making a complaint to the LGO. Anyone can telephone the LGO helpline for an opinion, and request a way forward.

[lgwarren]

Firstly, thank you all for your responses.

 

I will give the LGO a ring, do they talk over the telephone?

[TB Law]

Details here: http://www.lgo.org.uk/making-a-complaint/

[lgwarren]

I was thinking about complaining to CIVEA, but it looks like Mr Jacobs is the "Immediate Past Chairman" or something, so to me there would be little point.

I think their deliberations would be at best, one sided.

[TB Law]

Don't bother with CIVEA.

[stu007]

Hi

 

My concern here is the police officers actions as that police officer had full proof and agreed that the OP was in fact correct but continued to let the Baliff commit a Breach of the Peace and tresspass right in front of the OP and the Police Officer after the OP had fully proved their innocence. In a way the police were complicate in the actions of the baliff be letting then proceed to clamp that vehicle after it was proved the baliff was incorrect.

 

Its a sad day when the police stand back and let a baliff carry out illegal action against an innocent person when this has been proved to the police and they stand and watch the illegal actions and do nothing wonder what your Councillor and MP will think of that one.

 

As for the Baliffs heavy handed tactis breach of the peace, tresspass, depriving you of your own property, illegal clamping, distress, threats oh I could go on what an idiot report this fully that person has crossed the line.

 

Dont let this drop Formal Complaints in writing (always get proof of posting) to Police, Council and Baliff Company and send copies of your letters to your local councillor and mp.

Edited December 18, 2012 by stu007

[TB Law]

Complaints against police officers conduct are made intiially to the Inspector, but I wouldnt rattle the police just yet, the OP needs police cooperation by providing a statement to support a form 4 complaint.

 

Only start the police complaints procedure if the police start pising around.

[lgwarren]

I have no reason to believe that the officer would be anything other than helpful. He was quite young and the law surrounding all this is it seems quite complex. I will give him time to get back to me. This week he is on nights, 10-7, so it may be difficult for him. He was in my corner while he was with me.

[TB Law]

You need to make the request in writing for a statement or a copy of his notebook. He will comply because if you show the judge at a form 4 hearing his refusal letter then the police officer himself is going to have a judge breathing down his neck.

 

A short polite letter is all that needed and addressed to the officer in person you want trhe statement from.

[brassnecked]

You should initially send a Formal Complaint to the head of parking at the council marked as such, indicating that the bailiff acted ultra vires, as you are a third party to the debt, copy it to the council CEO, the Elected Leader and your MP

You could state that you are considering a claim for tortious interference *(may wind them up a little if they think that their bailiff has messed up) with goods, as your vehicles were effectively illegally impounded for 24 hours, and point out that they are wholly liable for any wrongful action by their agent Jacobs, who should have checked with the DVLA before clamping. I wonder if this council and/or Jacobs are on the DVLA banned list?

 

Another incident that proves the police need training in bailiff law. that bailiff should have been carted off to the clink.

[lgwarren]

Thank you TB Law.

 

To update you on my Form 4 complaint.

I received confirmation of its receipt from the court, and am led to believe that the bailiff has until tomorrow to respond. Would you know what happens next and what the time limits I have to give the court

a) the police officers notes and

b) anything else that I feel the court should know.

[TB Law]

If you need more time then you may have to ask the court to adjourn so you can take statements from the attending officers. I dont expect any decision will be made until new year, only the bailiff has to give his response to your complaint thus far.

[sgtbush]

can i ask the OP a question which you failed to say in the 1st post

 

is the debt commercial debt like CT or a PCN

or a magistrates court warrant for a non payment of a court fine

 

if its a magistrates matter, then if you show the police the documents you need to of proven to the bailiff the same, that is what a distress warrant wants him to do, assertain any assets or chattles belonging to the debtor

 

im not excusing his bad attitude, no need to be an ass

but u needed to prove to the bailiff as well as the police

 

if its not a magistrates matter then i would say he was a bigger jackass coz he hasnot got a warrant and therefore has less powers and was trying to just get one-up

[old bill]

The police officer who attended has to be given credit where due in checking who the registered owner/keeper of the vehicle was and telling the bailiff of this. He could have arrested the bailiff for Attempted Fraud by Misrepresentation, Being In Possession of An Article for Use in Connection with Fraud or, even, an offence of Attempted Blackmail. Pity he didn't because that would have been kudos for the police officer and a smack in the head for the civil enforcement industry.

 

If the bailiff cannot produce a valid Clamping Order, that is Unlawful Interference with Property and Unlawful Detention of Property, under Civil Law, as well as the potential criminal offences mentioned above.

 

In order to obtain a statement from the police officer or a copy of his Incident Report or pocketbook entry, you will need to apply to the Solicitor's Department of the police force concerned.

[lgwarren]

10.30. this evening. Some very good news from the police officer, he remembers the incident well.

He has told me to give the police reference number to the court and the council and he will respond.

Merry Christmas Jacobs.

[old bill]

can i ask the OP a question which you failed to say in the 1st post

 

is the debt commercial debt like CT or a PCN

or a magistrates court warrant for a non payment of a court fine

 

if its a magistrates matter, then if you show the police the documents you need to of proven to the bailiff the same, that is what a distress warrant wants him to do, assertain any assets or chattles belonging to the debtor

 

im not excusing his bad attitude, no need to be an ass

but u needed to prove to the bailiff as well as the police

 

if its not a magistrates matter then i would say he was a bigger jackass coz he hasnot got a warrant and therefore has less powers and was trying to just get one-up

 

The bailiff requires a Clamping Order whatever. No Clamping Order, no clamp on vehicles belonging to either the debtor or third-parties. This bailiff hasn't just been an ass, he has been an idiot of the First Order as he has potentially put his bailiff certificate at risk of cancellation and consequent loss of employment.