MMF - Wage Day Advance

[avfc2012]

Hi all,

Had the pleasure of MMF calling me on friday regarding a debt that's been supplied to them by WDA.

Now I did have a loan with WDA for £135 (plus £15 transfer fee) which was paid into my account 09/Nov/2012 and paid a total of £187.50 on the 26/Nov/2012 (17days).

MMF stated they are chasing me for a debt of £523.50, to which I said I am not prepared to discuss with them until I receive Notice of Assignment and while there at it send me a copy of the credit agreement as I own nothing further to WDA.

 

Over the weekend I received emails from "[email protected]" stating "Please contact to arrange home visit appointment date", then today I've recieved the notice of assignment and also an email from [email protected] containing the agreement I requested.

 

Now the agreement is dated 10/Nov/2010 (not signed just my name typed) but the details on it state the following:

Duration of Credit Agreement : This agreement has no fixed or minimum duration.

Credit Limit : £150.00 This limit may be varied to such sum as may from time to time be determined by the Creditor and you will be given notice of it.

How and when credit will be provided : by deposit in the Debtor's designated bank account from any date after the agreement is executed as and when a draw

down is approved by the Creditor in an amount up to the credit limit. Transfer will be by BACs, which can take up to 3 days and is free of charge, unless you opt

for Express Payment in which case you will pay a transfer fee of £15 (see the optional express payment section below).

Interest : is charged at a fixed rate of 29.5% of the amount of the last drawdown (383.5% per annum) on the amount of credit and applied to outstanding loan

amounts for the period they remain outstanding.

Total amount payable : The sum of the credit drawn down and interest; assuming a maximum draw down by the Debtor of the credit limit for a period of 28 days

the amount repayable will be £194.25

APR : 2814.2% (This APR is calculated on the assumption that you draw down to your credit limit for 28 days. Please see paragraph 4.5 of the terms and

conditions for further information about APR.)

I would like a little help as to what I should write to them to stop the threat of Door step agent and the fact that the agreement they provided had been paid, plus provide full breakdown of balance as none of it makes sense. (sorry I know i got the basis for a letter there but I struggle, to get my point across in a professional manner)

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

[avfc2012]

Can somebody please advise if this is acceptable, a friend helped me write it out:

In response to your emails dated 12th, 14th, 16th, 17th Dec 2012, telephone conversation 14th Dec 2012 and also letter confirming Notice of Assignment dated 14th Dec 2012 (received 17th Dec 2012).

I wish to draw to your attention that following my request on the 14th Dec in conversation with Andrew (01138876876 @12:26pm), the copy of the credit agreement was sent by Rebecca ([email protected]) and received 17th Dec 2012 at 08:37am.

The credit agreement is dated 10th Nov 2010, of which I agree that I accepted which was for a sum of £135 + £15 advance chaps payment fee totaling £150, as stated on the agreement.

The repayable amount again as per the agreement was for £194.25 based on a period of 28 days.

I would like to point out that, I had paid this loan on the 26th Nov 2010 with the sum of £187.50 (17days) which was collected by Direct Debit in 3 installments (2 x £75 and 1 of £37.50).

 

Therefor based upon the agreement provided by yourselves, the debt you are pursuing is none existent, due to this subsequently being paid. Of which I had pointed out to a previous collection companies (ScotCall Ltd / Commercial Credit Management Ltd) on behalf of WDA, whom I also asked to provide me copies of the said agreement. The latter of the two convinced myself to make token payments on the account to prevent doorstep collection / litigation whilst they obtained the agreement. That said payments totaling £100 was made by myself over a period of seven months, without once receiving the agreement for the alleged debt. I agreed to these as at the time I was on medication for depression and in a state of not trusting my own mental judgment.

 

With the information I have provided yourself above, and the copy of the agreement yourselves have provided me I hope that this satisfies the matter, as I will not pay any further monies to WDA or yourselves as I have paid for the loan to which the agreement relates to.

If you believe this still not be the case then could you please supply myself with a full breakdown of the sum you are chasing.

 

In addition to this. Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. Any attempts to contact me by telephone will be duly logged by time and date and also may be recorded.

 

Furthermore, I note your persistent communication stating “intentions of a doorstep visit”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you or any associate/agent acting on your behalf.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Regards

 

She also provided me with the Notice of removal of implied right of access, and said to email them to the two address i have and also send recorded delivery.

[Bombaymix]

Just had a quick read over your posts.

 

In your opening posts you say that you took out the loan and paid it back in November 2012? In the information they send you they claim that they are pursuing a loan from November 2010? Is this a typo?

 

Not meaning to be picky if it is a genuine typo

[avfc2012]

Yes sorry its a typo, taken out 9th Nov 2010 and repaid 17days later (tried to edit post but it keeps throwing up a security message?)

[Bombaymix]

Ok! No problem

 

The information that your friend has assisted you with is spot on!

 

I know it's a couple of years ago, would you by any chance have bank statements from November 2010?

[avfc2012]

I can see the transactions on the Online service for Nov 2010, but they will be in archive by Monday so I would have to request paper ones.

[Bombaymix]

Try and get some screen shots before they are archived. I'd say that this will be enough to get them off your back!

[avfc2012]

Hi all.

 

Just received an email from MMF regarding my letter.

 

Dear xxxxx

 

The agreements with wage day advance are all rolling agreements,

 

Therefore each customer will only be issued agreement upon taking out the 1 st loan and will be for the initial loan amount.

 

Please read as it is confirmed in the agreement that this will be the case.

 

Regards,

 

Rebecca

 

Administration Manager

 

Motormile Finance UK Ltd (MMF)

 

Main: 0844 7709 584

 

Free Phone: 0800 9961 103

 

Surely that's not right?

[drob]

hi avfc20122

 

Yes, in general WDA will issue a Running Account Credit Agreement. The agreement has no fixed term or minimum duration, however it will indicate a credit limit & a total amount payable over a 30 day period.

[avfc2012]

Of which I paid off.

Surely this isnt right as they could just keep the account open and icurring charges etc.

 

As I paid it off, then any further loan would be a new loan, different amount different date different repayment, therefore a new agreement.

 

There is no other agreement than the one thats been paid off.

 

So you saying im screwed?

Edited December 21, 2012 by avfc2012

[avfc2012]

Looking at the agreement its got:

Duration of Credit Agreement : This agreement has no fixed or minimum duration.

Credit Limit : £150.00 This limit may be varied to such sum as may from time to time be determined by the Creditor and you will be given notice of it.

Termination : You can terminate this agreement at any time by giving written or oral notice to the Creditor; once the outstanding balance has been repaid the

credit agreement will be terminated and the account closed.

If its got "no fixed or minimum duration", then surely its not a 30day loan.

And as for the credit Limit - its 150, but I have never been "Given Notice" by WDA that the limit has been changed.

As for the Termination part, the loan was paid and surely this means that the account was closed and also any further loan(s) would require a new agreement?

[avfc2012]

Merry Christmas to you all.

 

I've been quite worried about this, and every knock at the door I've been jumping at (even today!), luckily one of the knocks was my friend who wrote the letter above for me.

 

Now we discussed it all and she has tried her best to reassure me, and then basically kicked me off the computer to write out an email to the person who replied to my email & sent the CCA.

 

We have'nt clicked send as she's had a bit of a drink and may have gone off on a tangent, your thoughts and comments are appreciated prior to emailing.

 

Thank you.

 

Formal Dispute

 

Rebecca,

 

Thank you for your prompt reply.

 

Whilst you state that the agreements with Wage Day Advance (WDA) are all rolling agreements, the Good Practice and Customer Charter for lenders whom are members of the Consumer Finance Association, the Consumer Credit Trade Association, the BCCA, or the Finance & Leasing Association implemented November 2012, states:

 

• Not pressurise you to enter into any loan agreement or to extend (‘roll over’) the term of your existing loan agreement.

• Tell you that a payday or short-term loan should be used for short-term financial needs and is not appropriate for long-term borrowing or if you are in financial difficulty

 

Therefore the agreements of WDA contravenes the charter by automatically entering the borrower into a “rolling contract” and extending the said short term loan.

 

As I pointed out to yourself in my previous email dated 19th December 2012, the agreement with WDA actually terminated between myself and WDA on the 26th Nov 2010 with the payment of the sum of £187.50 for 17 (seventeen) days which was collected by Direct Debit in 3 instalments (2 x £75 and 1 of £37.50). Based upon the amount borrowed and interest applied for the 17 (seventeen) days £187.50 settled the loan and as per the agreement which you provided states:

 

• Termination : You can terminate this agreement at any time by giving written or oral notice to the Creditor; once the outstanding balance has been repaid the credit agreement will be terminated and the account closed.

 

Could you please therefore provide suitable evidence by way of the correct signed (by myself) Credit Agreement out laying the amount you are chasing.

 

As this is account is being disputed, I wish to obtain details of your Full dispute process and expect the “door step” emails to cease as I am duly communicating with MotorMile Finance Uk Ltd.

 

Once again may I point out to you that I will only communicate with you in writing. Any attempts to contact me by telephone will be duly logged by time and date and also may be recorded.

 

In addition to this I recognise your companies constant, emails stating “intentions of a doorstep visit”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you or any associate/agent acting on your behalf.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

I have again attached a Notice of Removal of Implied Right of Access, by way of accepting receipt of this email, the continuation of this Notice remains in effect and will do so until I declare otherwise.

 

Regards

[avfc2012]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]40386[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]40387[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]40388[/ATTACH]

 

Hi All,

 

Really need some help with this:

 

Today I've recieved the attached letter from MMF's Barry Ellershaw... My letter he is reffering to is post no #12.

 

As I was doing abit of a new years clear out, I found the original Agreement from WDA - and I couldn't believe it, its completely different from the one that MMF had sent me!!

 

The Agreement from WDA states signature as "Mr XXXXX XXXXX / Fp" signed 10-11-2011, where as the one from MMF states signature as "XXXXX XXXXX" signed 05/11/2010.

 

Apart from the whole layout another discrepancy is there is No "Running Account Credit" is listed on the Original Agreement but is on MMF's.

 

As I pointed out in my letter to MMF no further agreement was signed after the repayment of the loan of £150. As per the agreement provided by MMF repayment of the loan, meant that the agreement terminated and account closed.

 

Can someone please help me as I don't know what else to do.

 

Thanks

[survivor1984]

Hi,

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one with issues from these people.

 

I've had an arrangement with these people for the last four months now and to say the least MMF have been rather painful.

 

I received an email from MMF in Oct 2012 regarding my WDA payday loan which had been sold to them. Initially I was paying WDA £50 per month; however, they sold the debt to MMF and increased the overall sum by £350.00 due to "supposidly" fee's and overheads incurred.

 

Initially they were good and wanted to continue the arrangment at £50 per month on a S/O. The guy at the time said they preferred S/O as they then had reassurance for the payment plan.

 

In December 2012 I received a text message from a "Mike" and an email saying I had broken the arrangment and he would be visiting my house this weekend. I phoned them and was reassured by the representitive that my payments had been on time and there had been a computer error.

 

Anyway I woke up today at 6am to find 10 text from MMF and 5 voicemails to say I had broken the agreement and immediate payment is required.

 

I spoke to someone today, who seemed like he couldn't care less, saying I hadn't paid January's payment and they wanted me to clear the full balance now. I informed him of the date payment, the S/O references etc etc... then he tried to convince me I had no S/O ever with them. WHAT THE ????

 

After a load of bulltalk from him he asked me to set up a new S/O and he would look into where my payments had gone to and call me back.

Towards the end he then starting moaning at why I didn't pay the amount by Debit Card and that S/O weren't good and incurred additional charges to the account.

 

Anyway I called them back and spoke to someone who understood what she was talking about and now payments are up to date and all is moving forward again.

 

Word of warning to anyone have all your paperwork to hand and ask who you have been talking to at the end of each call.

[renegadeimp]

Never EVER speak to them on the phone. They will lie through their teeth and say ANYTHING simply to get your bank details so they can raid it. Also, all those extra charges for dumb things can be ignored. Especially if they added on £200-300 for transferring it, or they try adding on interest or late payment fees.

[avfc2012]

Do you have any further advice / recommendations as to the letter (and agreements) I received.

For a start he has only gone on about the removal of access rights (is he correct in what he says?) hasnt said anything about the points I made regarding the termination of the agreement when the £150 was repaid.

[renegadeimp]

Its up to him to prove the debt exists and hes completely wrong when he says ypu cant revoke permission for him to come. its typical mmf talk. Especially when he doesnt have any proof at all to back up what hes saying.

[avfc2012]

I've wrote the following to him by way of letter stating again ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE at the top due to his statement of the debt not being in dispute:

**ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE**

Ref: XXXXXXXX

In response to your letter dated 04th January 2013.

I have provided all information to yourself in my email of the 26th December 2012, which you have acknowledged receiving.

You state in your letter “should you have any documentary evidence to demonstrate that this debt has been settled in full with Wage Day Advance, please send me a copy and I shall be happy to investigate this further.”

I can not provide any documentary evidence as there was never any loan agreement in place for which you are claiming, hence my request for a copy of the said agreement.

The only agreement I had in place with WDA was paid IN FULL as outlined in my email on the 26th December 2012, and as per the agreement your company provided, “Once the outstanding balance has been repaid the credit agreement will be terminated and the account closed”.

The following is as stated in my emails to yourselves:

Email Date 26th December 2012: - “As I pointed out to yourself in my previous email dated 19th December 2012, the agreement with WDA actually terminated between myself and WDA on the 26th Nov 2010 with the payment of the sum of £187.50 for 17 (seventeen) days which was collected by Direct Debit in 3 installments (2 x £75 and 1 of £37.50). Based upon the amount borrowed and interest applied for the 17 (seventeen) days £187.50 settled the loan and as per the agreement which you provided states:

· Termination : You can terminate this agreement at any time by giving written or oral notice to the Creditor; once the outstanding balance has been repaid the credit agreement will be terminated and the account closed.

Could you please therefore provide suitable evidence by way of the correct signed (by myself) Credit Agreement out laying the amount you are chasing.”

Email Date 19th December 2012 Attachment letter:-

“The credit agreement is dated 10th Nov 2010, of which I agree that I accepted which was for a sum of £135 + £15 advance chaps payment fee totaling £150, as stated on the agreement.

The repayable amount again as per the agreement was for £194.25 based on a period of 28 days.

I would like to point out that, I had paid this loan on the 26th Nov 2010 with the sum of £187.50 (17days) which was collected by Direct Debit in 3 installments (2 x £75 and 1 of £37.50).”

You have failed to provide a signed agreement for the value you are chasing.

In addition to this, I have located a copy of the original agreement from Wage Day Advance that actually differs from the copy your company has provided to me. (Please see enclosed).

As you can clearly see the Original Agreement states nothing about “Rolling Agreement”. So I can only presume that the agreement you have provided me has been modified. If you do not believe this to be the case then please can you explain the difference’s?

It is up to yourself to provide suitable documentary evidence of this loan by way of a signed agreement as stated under Consumer Credit Act 1974. As you are aware the agreement should include Date of Agreement, Value of Loan, Amount repayable of loan, Rate of Interest and date payable. As you have yet to provide this to support your claim, I believe that no such agreement exists.

I also note that within your letter you state that “In relation to your notification of your revocation of the doorstep licence regarding our intention to send an agent to your home to discuss the debt. I can confirm that we are fully aware of this and we ensure that we fully comply with the OFT guidance regarding debt collection and visits by agents. You are not correct in your assertion that, under OFT rules, we can only call at your home if you agree to make an appointment. The debt is not reasonably disputed or deadlocked, we are giving you reasonable notice of the timing of the intended visit.”

To this I state you that I am correct in my statement and right to revoke, as this debt is in dispute.

You also acknowledged my email on 26th December 2012 which was headed “FORMAL DISPUTE”.

You have not provided any documentation to support your claim of the alleged debt owed. Therefore my right to revoke the doorstep license with yourselves or any agent acting on behalf of Motor Mile Finance UK Ltd and any companies / personnel associated.

For clarity, once again I state that this debt is not acknowledge by myself and is under dispute, I once again enclose a copy of the Notice of Removal of Implied Right of Access as of today (13th January 2013)

Again with the information I have provided by way of the above, agreement attached and the copy of the agreement yourselves have provided me I hope that this satisfies the matter, as I will not pay any further monies to WDA or yourselves as I have paid for the loan to which the agreement relates to.

If you believe this still not be the case then could you please supply myself with the evidence I have requested (Credit Agreement) including a full breakdown of the sum you are chasing.

In addition to this. Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. Any attempts to contact me by telephone will be duly logged by time and date and also may be recorded.

Furthermore, I note your persistent communication stating “intentions of a doorstep visit”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you or any associate/agent acting on your behalf.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Regards

[renegadeimp]

Ok time to stop playing letter tennis with the idiots. Youve already sent a formal dispute, so theyd be stupid not to answer it.

 

When you asked for the agreement, did you send a CCA request and include a £1 postal order?

 

 

You have not provided any documentation to support your claim of the alleged debt owed. Therefore my right to revoke the doorstep license with yourselves or any agent acting on behalf of Motor Mile Finance UK Ltd and any companies / personnel associated.

 

Actually....

 

 

 

It is your legal right to stop them calling at your house at any time. It has nothing to do with any documentation or the fact you owe a debt. You could owe them £10,000 and you are still legally allowed to revoke their permission.

 

Also, the last paragraph could have been removed, as theres no real need for it. If they truely abided by the OFT guidance on debt collection, they would already know and wouldnt argue with you on it

[avfc2012]

Yep, sent a £1.00, as I did with WDA and the collection companies they assigned it to ScotCall Ltd & Commercial Credit Management Ltd.

 

The only agreement is the one I've posted on here, for £150. Which was paid back, and as per the agreement MMF sent has been terminated and closed, as I have repaid.

 

I cant even log into the WDA website or retrieve password as there is no account.

[renegadeimp]

Ok. then the only letter you need to send, when they start stamping their feet is:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

I think its time you stopped playing letter tennis with them now.

[avfc2012]

I can see that they will end up replying with a we have agreed to the request as we have sent a credit agreement as the credit agreement is a rolling one. Which. Is the reply I got via email when I disputed the validity

[renegadeimp]

From the info you have given, they havent supplied it correctly. As it will normally have the full agreement plus terms and conditions. If they simply say "its a rolling agreement", then theyre wrong. You still want the original agreement so you can see that. If they wont provide it, then the account is in dispute and is legally unenforceable in law until such a time that they comply.

[avfc2012]

I've received a letter today (Had to sign for it!) from Wage Day Advance. (Cant upload as I've Broke scanner) it says:

 

I am writing in response to your letter dated 15 January 2013 which was referred to us by Motor Mile Finance Ltd.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of you credit agreement which is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (None was enclosed.)

 

You were supplied with a reconstituted credit agreement (in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974) by one of our third party debt collectors which your account was previously assigned to - whom you subsequently made payments totaling £101.00 on an account you claim to not acknowledge - and this agreement makes clear reference that your credit limit may be varied from time to time indicating that this is a running agreement.

You were later supplied with a copy of your agreement again (this time non-reconstituted) by Motor Mile Finance Ltd which clearly states RUNNING ACCOUNT AGREEMENT.

We acknowledge that the dates differ by five days on these agreements and this was due to you signing an agreement on a duplicate application, and the data being pulled from this application. It bares no relevance to the validity of the original credit agreement supplied to you or the reconstituted agreement I have enclosed (previously supplied)

I have enclosed a statement of your account showing all subsequent draw downs and transactions on your account between 05 November 2010 and 26 June 2011.

Your consumer credit agreement has been signed by both parties and the credit advanced to you, which you are now legally obliged to repay in accordance with the terms of the agreement.

WHILE THERE IS NO FORMAL OBLIGATION ON OUR PART TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION IN ANSWER TO VALIDATION OF DEBT CORRESPONDENCE. We have undertaken steps to provide you with the contractual terms under which your financial obligations arise and a statement of account, together with other supporting documentation.

This letter and enclosed documents have also been supplied to Motor Mile Finance Ltd now holds the legal right to collect the outstanding debt under your consumer agreement. All sums owed are now legally payable to Motor Mile Finance UK Ltd and you have no ongoing relationship with Wageday Advance Ltd.

Am I right in saying that the Running Account agreement (dated 10/11/2010) is invalid and by way of admission by WDA has in fact been reconstructed as” data being pulled” through from another agreement – is unlawful. Its recognisable by the copies I posted previously of both the agreements that the Agreement I signed on the 05/11/2010 the same date the funds were transferred into my account that this is the original agreement, which has no Running Account Agreement stated.

As for the statement of account it says:

Balance: £523.50

 

 

05/10/2012 – CHAPS – £135.00. Balance inc interest £187.50

26/11/2010 – Direct Debit – £187.50. Balance inc interest £0.00

28/02/2011 – CHAPS – £335.00. Balance inc interest £437.50

25/03/2011 – £12 APPLIED – £0.00. Balance inc interest £449.50

26/04/2011 – £87.50 APPLIED – £0.00. Balance inc interest £537.00

26/05/2011 – £87.50 APPLIED – £0.00. Balance inc interest £624.50

05/09/2011 – DEBT COLLECTORS – £10.00. Balance inc interest £614.50

06/10/2011 – DEBT COLLECTORS – £20.00. Balance inc interest £594.50

01/11/2011 – DEBT COLLECTORS – £20.00. Balance inc interest £574.50

28/11/2011 – DEBT COLLECTORS – £20.00. Balance inc interest £554.50

10/12/2011 – DEBT COLLECTORS – £10.00. Balance inc interest £544.50

10/01/2012 – DEBT COLLECTORS – £10.00. Balance inc interest £534.50

06/02/2012 – DEBT COLLECTORS – £1.00. Balance inc interest £524.50

29/06/2012 – DEBT COLLECTORS – £1.00. Balance inc interest £523.50

£187 of charges on a £335 loan, that is extortionate, thought PDL's could only charge one month, else it contradicted the type of loan and agreements (or lack of)

[renegadeimp]

Good job those charges are unlawful.