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    • Oh god! How silly!   I had so many different tabs and word documents open , cutting and pasting different bits I think I’ve copied in the wrong one.   Just had to nip out. I’ll post the correct version ASAP! X
    • Thank you for your response. I've read through some of the threads, however I haven't found any in a similar situation to mine where the overall outcome of the investigation has been posted (whether it was an out of court settlement or a conviction that resulted in a criminal record).    I'm aware that what typically happens is that you're taken to court where they give you a £1000 fine and a criminal record of 12 months (or 11 years if its an enhanced DBS check). This is the information I received following contacting a the TFL legal advice team.   
    • urm.. that's a telecom defence?? why not adapt the one I pointed you too??    
    • Thank you all again.   I think the word story is quite apt as it is clear from the 29 points over 6 pages that my parents have insisted lots of frankly irrelevant and often untrue things have been included in the solicitors letter.   Here is me filling in the gaps!   There was a dispute over a will in respect of your grandfather's house but the dispute was eventually abandoned and it seems that the house was apportioned to your mother and her brother who presumably were the only two children. The will was unsigned and so we could say that the house passed to the two of them under the rules of intestacy.   Not abandoned, it went to court and the court decided it should be sold and the £ divided between my Mother and my Uncle who were the only two children. So maybe they did own it whilst on the market? You then decided to buy the house for £50,000 and presumably the money you paid was divided between your mother and your uncle – who were the owners of the house.   Correct, it went on the market, a few people viewed it, my parents were awkward towards these potential buyers and then I made the offer to the estate agent and purchased it. This was in 1999. We talking about 20 years ago here and so in respect of most legal questions I would have thought that some limitation period applied. (However the issue of the trust has been raised – and this wouldn't be affected by limitation) However, presumably the house was bought at a proper value given the market at the time and any work that it needed doing. Presumably the house was properly conveyed.   Exactly, 20 years is ridiculous, and during that time my Father could have purchased it from me, instead of purchasing their own council house, if they really wanted to it 'back' as they keep saying. Yes market value in need of work and all above board. Although a lot of things have passed – including home improvements, tenancies et cetera, from the story you have told us, neither your parents nor your uncle have been involved in this at all. My Uncle has also sadly passed away.   I obtained additional borrowing to fund the work needed in 2008 (not mentioned in letter obviously) and have found some receipts, emails and mortgage letter to back this up, but in the letter my parents claim they paid for all this and carried out the work as I ‘had little interest in the property’ also all correspondence from letting agent is to me, but in letter claims by Father did all these and ‘I merely singed the tenancy’ which is rubbish.   One weird thing, the garden shed is still full of my Grandad's tools and my parents have the only key to this, have visited it randomly and instructed a builder person we both know over the years to trim the hedges. This was always been behind my back and have asked them to let me know or I can do it. I spoke to him yesterday and they have always paid him cash, so no paper trail.   Now you have received a letter from your parents saying that the house is really theirs and that you have simply been holding it on trust for them and they now want it back. Is this a reasonable summary of what has happened?   Yes, although the ‘trust’ that is mentioned is literally something they have made up, assumed or otherwise. There is absolutely nothing to my knowledge of this kind in place.   Although you have written a fair bit about bills, tenancies, and that you have lived in your parents home for some of this 20 years, I'm not sure what relevance that has to the problem. I have to say that your explanation is very unclear. A bit rambling in fact. If you think that part of the story is relevant then maybe you'd like to express it all a little more clearly and say in what way you think it is relevant to the problem.   Reason being it is referred to in the letter and quite representative of the whole letter, rambling. My point was it is not true and I am the one who has paid for these. It’s almost like they are trying to paint me as someone collecting the rent money whilst the did all the hard work and paid for things. You are much more familiar with the story then I am but I don't see that those factors are terribly important on the brief understanding that I have. if if any money is owed to your parents because of you having lived with them et cetera then it seems to me that that is a separate matter and has nothing to do with your ownership of the property.   Agreed You say that you have received a letter from solicitors claiming first of all that there is a constructive trust or that you might be subject to a proprietary estoppel. In terms of the estoppel, that doctrine is only available in very particular circumstances and could not be used to attack you in any event. Estoppel, whether it is proprietary or promissory can only be used as a defence. So the question of estoppel in this situation is completely irrelevant, in my view, although I don't see any basis for one in any event.   Lets hope so So what remains is the possibility of a constructive trust. It seems to me to be highly unlikely that there is such a trust and I think that the first question needs to be asked is on what basis they consider that there is a constructive trust. Secondly, of course, even if there was a constructive trust, on the basis of what you have told us, it wouldn't only be your mother who was the beneficiary, it would also be your uncle. Furthermore, if you were a constructive trustee then at the very least you would be entitled to recover all of the expenses that you had laid out over 30 years – including the cost of the property plus interest – less any financial benefit that you had accrued from renting it out and so forth.   Good point about me being a trustee, if, such a thing were in place. I had a google of the meaning and I honestly don’t feel it meets any of the criteria. I'm not sure how good this analysis is. This is well out of my experience – but I would suggest that you consider it and see whether any of it rings true. I would also start making a very detailed account of all the money which you have spent over the years on the property and also a detailed account of all the benefits you have accrued from it. I wouldn't supply this to their solicitor but if you end up having to instruct your own lawyer then I'm sure that you may be asked for this if there is any suspicion that a constructive trust may exist. Frankly it sounds like a load of rubbish to me but we will be very interested if you will keep us up to date. So there you have it. No particular answers. Just a few unsupported and unqualified opinions     I do really appreciate your time and effort on this. Yes, when I read it all again, rubbish does spring to mind.   My parents have been very challenging to say the least and have no idea of the consequence of their actions. To be honest, they have almost shot themselves in the foot as there is so much detail in the letter, lots of which is untrue and I can prove this. If it ever got to court and I really hope it doesn’t, I can only think this would go against them.   I really do think the solicitor (who is the same one that rinsed them ££££ over the will) is just charging them for this letter, which may have been a good few hours with the unneeded detail, knowing fully well this wont go anywhere!   Another thing the letter requests that I confirm I wont sell, rent out or re-mortgage the property!!! I have literally just started a new mortgage and need tenants to pay the rent, I don't think this request hold any water at all?   I hope this does come to nothing and hopefully helps others along the way!
    • god no never invite pointless letter tennis   dx  
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Hi to my old friends back here again to try and help some more.

 

The story goes: a young man who works for me told me this morning that he had been visited by Marsdens with a warrant following him being late with a payment for a court fine balance £311 now gone upto £611

 

Young mans parents stressed and no money in the family to pay for anything

YM asks sister to take on a wonga loan to help out , sister does but will cost £80 per month for £300 loan

 

I told sister I would help and asked her to repay loan and I would loan to YM interest free

 

I ring the bailiff posing as concerned dad asking for time to pay -No help there from bailiff (what a surprise) fees are set by the courts says he Pay up or else!!!

 

I ring the court asking about the fees - nothing to do with us say court speak to the bailiffs I dont accept this and am given a 0845 number to ring costing £ loads per minute and told to speak to the court collection/payments section

is there an alternative number I can call from my mobile-no is the reply I look up an alternative number and call free from my mobile!!!

 

After 10 minutes hanging on to my free telephone number that woukd have cost £5 I speak to a lady who goes on to read YMs account and tells us he is upto date although he missed 1 payment this was made up the following month with a double payment! !!

She goes on to say the warrant should not have been issued! ! RESULT!!!! Warrant cancelled! !

 

£400 saved by a family with little or no resources 10 days before Xmas stress gone fine paid in full as loan from me to YM

 

I ring the bailiff to tell him. " not my fault only doing my job " says he

After a few minutes of me winding him up I hang up on him

 

 

High 5 with YM

 

an afternoon of whistling and jovialty ensues

 

 

Moral of the story

1/never believe anything a bailiff says or does

2/ challenge everything

3/ always ask for help on this site

4/ dont lose heart and never give in to them

 

Onlymeagain

Edited by citizenB

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This is a very nice outcome - thank you for sharing :)


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Long time no hear but shows the touch is still there, no doubt you are someones favourite Father Xmas this year.


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Welllll helloooo there ........its good to see you back in touch.....and what a lovely entry you made. Another bailiff with a leg missing from his xmas turkey, I love the thought of that.....but the moral of your story certainly stands up on all four counts.

 

WD

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Great story. :) you'll must have great karma after that.


"Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me". Martin Niemöller

 

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Very true, and a good result but a scrooge bailiff is unlikely to be swayed by Marleys ghost, or the ghosts of Christmas Past Present and Future. "Are there no prisons, no workhouses" he will cry, "to send the debtor to after I clear the house out"! So even better that ohitsonlyme wound him up.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Good to be back in the fight thanks guys for your kind words,

it was you and this site that gave this family a bit of a boost

 

Onlyme again

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i read it, and from what i can gather is the courts messed up, not the bailiff

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i read it, and from what i can gather is the courts messed up, not the bailiff

 

But a bailiff went out anyway, and the amount seemingly doubled, and debtor was hassled into attempting to borrow, or get sister to borrow, is that right and proper?

"YM asks sister to take on a wonga loan to help out , sister does but will cost £80 per month for £300 loan"

 

Yes fines should be paid, but punishing with setting the Sheriff of Nottingham's finest on debtors, is not the way in a civilised society.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Sgt bush,I understand what you are saying but the system is broken with bailiffs acting in cavalier ways not listening to simple hard working people , yes YM made a mistake and was punsihed by the courts he was making amends and he is the hardest working lad ive come across he is also dyslexic and had no real understanding of his rights

If the bailiff had listened to him and taken some action rather than trying to take his meagre belongings then I would have some trust in the system however the bailiff was only interested in his coin.

 

When I spoke to YM it was clear something was wrong with the warrant, yes bailiffs hear this all the time but how many innocents pay unknowingly with all of their worldly goods that willbe sold for a pittance and leave the debtor still owing money

 

Onlyme

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Sgt bush,I understand what you are saying but the system is broken with bailiffs acting in cavalier ways not listening to simple hard working people , yes YM made a mistake and was punsihed by the courts he was making amends and he is the hardest working lad ive come across he is also dyslexic and had no real understanding of his rights

If the bailiff had listened to him and taken some action rather than trying to take his meagre belongings then I would have some trust in the system however the bailiff was only interested in his coin.

 

When I spoke to YM it was clear something was wrong with the warrant, yes bailiffs hear this all the time but how many innocents pay unknowingly with all of their worldly goods that willbe sold for a pittance and leave the debtor still owing money

 

Onlyme

 

How many especially HMCS bailiffs from Marstons when faced with a debtor who has moved or they got the wrong address forced coin from the third party under duress? Quite a few I'll be bound.

 

Hope they don't call on me by mistake, the guard cat will have 'em, and the police cannot do me for the actions of the cat when it assaults the bailiff by ripping his leg to shreds.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I think this thread highlights the importance of never believing a word of what any certificated bailiff or bailiff company under contract to HMCTS says. ALWAYS contact the HMCTS Enforcement Manager for the court involved, in the first instance and, if necessary, the Regional HMCTS Contracts Manager, too. As the OP did in this case, contacted the Finance Unit, it showed someone had cocked-up. All respect to the OP for their presence of mind and guile.

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The problem is that a large number of people being chased by bailiffs are brain washed by the system and believe that the system takes care of them and so dont know any better and simply accept what a bailiff says as correct.

I have a healthy disrespect for the banks,local government and authority in general so when I got into trouble early in the recession I was lucky to find Cag and started to develop limited skills in fighting back

The young man and his family didn't know who to turn to and were petrified that the bailiff would take everything they own including xmas tree and beds, such is the fear that tv and media create

The bailiff should have listened and gone back to check if all was in order, after all marsdens had added £300 in fees this would more than cover a checking of the facts.

 

Oh shouts the bailiff I have heard it all before from you dirty rotten lying debtors, and so ignores the facts presented to him

 

If as in this case it is only 1 in a hundred or even 500 that has been distrained wrongly then that one person and whole family should not be victims.

Had the Wonga loan been fully taken up I doubt that YM or his sister could have repaid and so a vicious circle ensues

9

Until I intervened a short term solution to a problem that should not have been there was about to become a major catastrophe

 

Onlymeagin

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Exactly so!


We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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You think how much real misery they cause, and they are not even allowed to do it and it is getting worse

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I'm a 63yr old newbie - gr8 story, gives hope for us mere mortals - Thank you.

 

Hi thebuggersmoved welcome to the consumer action group

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I'm a 63yr old newbie - gr8 story, gives hope for us mere mortals - Thank you.

 

Hi thebuggersmoved ..welcome.gif to cag.

 

WD

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I'm a 63yr old newbie - gr8 story, gives hope for us mere mortals - Thank you.

 

Welcome aboard:cheer2:


We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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