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    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
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roey

Council Tax Dept Refused my CT benefits due to redundancy

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Please can some give me advice ?

i lost my job after 23 years working for the same company,i recived £23.000 payoff due to total site closure,

 

what i did was pay £30.000 of my morgage leaving me £2000 outstanding

i used most of my savings and only have about £3000 left in bank.

i am getting jsa cont based because ive been working 23 years , all that side of things is fine

i had no option of paying my house if i didint i would lose it because could not make payments with not working,

 

my prob is council tax !! i am having a nightmare with derby city council,i started my claim 9 weeks ago providing all the documents info they asked for,

they are now saying because i had £16.000 capital i do not qualify for council tax benefit !!!

 

so what do i do now ? all i get is £72.00 jsa a week and thats it they want me to pay full council tax and im not working ??? how can this be ? ive never been unemployed allways payed my way,

if they take me to court what will happen ? because i just have not got the money to pay them.

i am worried sick dont know what to do?

just before i got made redundant the benefets people came into work and adviced me to pay off my house so i have roof over my head, they said i will not be penalised for doing so !!

 

please if anybody can help me sort this mess out with them ?

 

thanks

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Yes i own my own house

Edited by roey

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It sounds as though they've applied deprivation of capital rules - believing you've disposed of capital in order claim benefits. They treat you as though you have the money.

Edited by citizenB

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I have moved you to the forum where you will get advice on this situation. :)


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You can appeal the decision. Deprivation of capital rules are dependant on your motive for disposing of capital, being to be eligible for benefits. If your motive was something else, and you can show the benefits of this, then you can argue the case.


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okay, i am confused

 

are you saying: -

 

  1. you own your home?
  2. you have been refused CTB?
  3. you have been awarded HB?


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okay, i am confused

 

are you saying: -

 

  1. you own your home?
  2. you have been refused CTB?
  3. you have been awarded HB?

 

I didn't notice that! Yes, what's that about?


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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yes i own my house,

i have been refused CT Benefit

i am unemployed now and claiming contributions jsa

they want me to pay the full amount out of my £71 a week

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are you in a shared ownership scheme where you rent part of your home and have a mortgage on the other part?

It does sound as though you are being treated under the deprivation of capital rules.

Whilst you are waiting for your new contract to start you can still continue to claim JSA but will need to willing to take up temporary employment in the meantime if available and offered.

Only the DM can make the decision regarding the deprivation of capital any redundancy advisers can ony give out general advice not firm decisions.

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i live alone,the house is not shared,i am the only person on the morgage

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If the benefits people who were advising on the redundancy suggested that you should use your money to clear your mortgage then it seems very unfair that you are now being penalised.


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2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

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BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I think the query was, that you said you were awarded housing benefit, but have a mortgage.


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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Please can some give me advice ?

i lost my job after 23 years working for the same company,i recived £23.000 payoff due to total site closure,

 

what i did was pay £30.000 of my morgage leaving me £2000 outstanding

i used most of my savings and only have about £3000 left in bank.

i am getting jsa cont based because ive been working 23 years , all that side of things is fine

i had no option of paying my house if i didint i would lose it because could not make payments with not working,

 

my prob is council tax !! i am having a nightmare with derby city council,i started my claim 9 weeks ago providing all the documents info they asked for,

they are now saying because i had £16.000 capital i do not qualify for council tax benefit !!!

 

so what do i do now ? all i get is £72.00 jsa a week and thats it they want me to pay full council tax and im not working ??? how can this be ? ive never been unemployed allways payed my way,

if they take me to court what will happen ? because i just have not got the money to pay them.

i am worried sick dont know what to do?

just before i got made redundant the benefets people came into work and adviced me to pay off my house so i have roof over my head, they said i will not be penalised for doing so !!

 

please if anybody can help me sort this mess out with them ?

 

thanks

 

 

Sorry, I cannot see anywhere the OP has said he has housing benefit ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Sorry, I cannot see anywhere the OP has said he has housing benefit ?

 

It did say that......or maybe I'm losing the plot (entirely possible)


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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okay, i am confused

 

are you saying: -

 

 

  1. you own your home?
  2. you have been refused CTB?
  3. you have been awarded HB?

 

It did say that......or maybe I'm losing the plot (entirely possible)

 

No you not losing it,OP did say they where receiving HB I remember seeing that too,suspect they hit the edit button !


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The people who go out to give the redundacy talks are not benefit processors and will not say you should do this that or the other, the can only advise that you consider all options. If was only going to be an initial contribution based claim (no Hb/Ctb) then it wouldn't have made any difference of the OP used their redundancy to pay off part of their outstanding mortgage but only if there is an income based claim and then deprivation of capital rules could apply.

Obviously I wasn't present to say if that was definitely the case or not but having accompanied a colleague to a redundancy talk I have heard what is discussed and our adviser stressed that they could only give out general advice and handed out leaflets for customers to take away to read for further information.

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there is one post that has disappeared that stated how JSA had been sorted along with HB but not the CtB, you weren't imagining it!

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there is one post that has disappeared that stated how JSA had been sorted along with HB but not the CtB, you weren't imagining it!

 

Glad to hear it wasn't just me going mad.....


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

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