Vehicle repossesion

[Haunted]

Hi all,

 

First time poster... use to forums though

 

I took on a finance for a vehicle back in February 2012 and kept up with all payments as one should. However, in June 2012 I moved home, contacted the finance company to inform them of this and also changed the due date.

 

Unfortunately though the bank wouldn't allow me to change my address without having an up to date bill to prove that I was living at the address, we are on quarterly bills in the new home so I had to wait.

 

Finally received the first electricity bill, as to which my partner went into the bank and changed the address and also requested copies of statements because we were unable to gain access to the previous address due to a dispute with the old Landlord. (This however has since been resolved).

 

It wasn't until the statements arrived that we noticed that the due date had not been changed and that I had missed 2 payments!

 

I contacted the finance company, apologised for the error and arranged to clear off the outstanding 2 months by the end of January 2013 - this would give me enough time to get together additional monies and ensure that the mistake on their behalf (i.e. non change of payments date) and that we thought all payments had come out so unwittingly had spent additional money were we shouldn't had.

 

The person that I spoke to on this particular day, confirmed that it was quite clearly an error on their behalf because

 

1. Address had not been changed

2. Contact Phone number had not been changed.

3. Due date had not been changed

 

He was quite helpful (it seemed!) even knocked off £50 charges, and did not charge us the apparent £25 address change that they charge, as of which I knew nothing about from the first call.

 

However... Come Monday evening 10th December 2012 - I arrive home to find a notice of termination on my doorstep! - I immediately attempted to contact the finance company to find out why this had been sent, to find that despite the times on the notice saying 9am - 7pm the answer machine stated 9am - 5pm and offices were closed

 

So like any other sane and rational person, I thought it was a mistake, and that I would be able to contact them the following morning.

 

Tuesday Morning arrives, my partner goes downstairs to defrost her car, comes back upstairs, wakes me to tell me that the car had gone!

 

I thought FFS! only just had the termination letter WTH is going on here!

 

I contacted them in the morning to be told the following...

 

1. It's not the finance companies job to monitor my debts?! (Which annoyed me extremely!!)

2. It's been taken because I've fallen behind with another month because THEY cancelled the DD - apparently to save me getting any more bank charges?! - Yet they failed to tell me this back in November!!

3. The only way I could get the vehicle back was by paying over £3600 by card + £282 for the removal of the vehicle.

 

Now, normally I'd have bowed down and kissed someone's backside at this point, to try and keep the vehicle however...The tow company that took the vehicle has done the following.

 

1. In order to move my vehicle, they have moved/dragged another vehicle out of the way - this is quite apparent and I also have photographic evidence and an eyewitness to verify this.

 

2. They have dragged my vehicle off a private car park. I.E. The car park my vehicle was on is owned by my Landlord, we have to park "closely" in order to stop the local taxi rank from abusing our parking area by parking taxi's on it day and night.

 

3. By dragging my vehicle they will have certainly damaged it - I have spoken with my mechanic about this, and he stated you DO NOT drag an Automatic Vehicle because you will damage the transmission, the braking system and the gear box

 

4. The tow company has also damaged the other vehicle which belongs to my neighbour!

 

Now, I wouldn't mind some advise on this matter... as I've been informed to not pay another penny to the finance company because their actions have been extremely unprofessional and they have provided no support as a consumer/customer to me whatsoever... Where do I go from here?

Edited December 13, 2012 by Haunted

[freakyleaky]

Thread moved to vehicle repossessions forum.

[garage flower]

They are within their rights to collect the car. You're early on in the agreement and have missed several payments. Whether that's their fault or not for not changing the due date is irrelevant. As they told you, it's your own responsibility to monitor your own debts and this includes making sure your payments are made. The car will be sold at auction and you will be liable for the remaining balance on your account.

 

As you're less than a third of the way through the agreement they can collect the car without your concent however they can't take it off private property without concent or a return of goods order from a court and this could be your only hope of getting anything out of this. If the car was collected off private property this is an illegal repossession and if a court agrees you could find that you will be liable for nothing and entitled to a full refund of all payments made. You may also make a claim to recover any damages.

 

With regards to the potential damage caused by towing the car, when collecting a vehicle the agent can cause minor damage to the vehicle if it is deemed neccessary to collect it. Towing is neccessary with most repossessions so I don't think you'll have much luck pursuing this.

[Haunted]

Several? - It was TWO payments which were missed, the third was also due to them cancelling the DD and not informing me... as a "supplier" is it not their DUTY to inform me that the DD was cancelled - especially within the second phone call?

 

It isn't "potential" damage... it is damage to the vehicle, you simple can not tow or drag an Automatic - The damage caused can be more than the car is worth, minor damage is one thing, turning a vehicle into a lump of useless metal is another surely?

[Let Them Knock]

As already said, repossession from private land without a court order or the landowner's permission is unlawful.

 

Did they fail to take a payment when it was due because they stopped the direct debit before they collected the car? If they did they are in breach of the agreement by preventing you from make a payment as due and agreed.

 

They are required to do no more damage than is necessary when recovering a car as this will reduce its value and so penalise you if it goes to auction. Of course, we don't know for sure if the transmission has been damaged.

 

You have already learned that you cannot reply on what is said on the telephone so either communicate in writing or get a telephone recorder so you have proof of what has been said or agreed.

 

I am assuming you don't live in Scotland where the law is different.

 

Who is the finance company?

[Surfer01]

Several? - It was TWO payments which were missed, the third was also due to them cancelling the DD and not informing me... as a "supplier" is it not their DUTY to inform me that the DD was cancelled - especially within the second phone call?

 

It isn't "potential" damage... it is damage to the vehicle, you simple can not tow or drag an Automatic - The damage caused can be more than the car is worth, minor damage is one thing, turning a vehicle into a lump of useless metal is another surely?

 

I am not sure why you did not supply the bank with a copy of your tenancy agreement when you moved as that would have resolved a few issues immediately. We have moved several times in the past and none of our DDs have been affected so I am a bit puzzled why your DD would have been refused unless there were insufficient funds?

Only the finance company can change the date for the DD and not the bank? BTW how would the finance company know that DD would bounce unless you told them that there would be insufficient funds? Perhaps if you clarify, we could offer better and more pertinent advice?

Are you able to supply some figures relating to finance agreement to show total finance, amount paid and whether you have paid at least 1/3. If you have paid more than a 1/3 then they would have required a court order. I am not sure about the private land as it appears public have access to it. However the neighbour could claim for damages to their vehicle.

[Haunted]

As already said, repossession from private land without a court order or the landowner's permission is unlawful.

 

Did they fail to take a payment when it was due because they stopped the direct debit before they collected the car? If they did they are in breach of the agreement by preventing you from make a payment as due and agreed.

 

According to the person that I spoke with on Tuesday their policy is that they cancel DD when fallen two months behind, so I dont incur bank charges "IF" the money isn't available... I informed her that I was not informed of this (as of which I wasn't) and that had I been informed of this, then I would have re-arranged the payment another way... she insisted (didn't even listen to what I had to say) that the first person that I spoke to in November will definitely have mentioned it... Again I told her that this was not the case... but again she refused to listen.

 

They are required to do no more damage than is necessary when recovering a car as this will reduce its value and so penalise you if it goes to auction. Of course, we don't know for sure if the transmission has been damaged.

 

I have spoken with two different mechanics, and both have stated that by towing an Automatic vehicle you will indeed damage the vehicle - as stated previously you will damage the Transmission, the gear box and the Break system. - Automatics have a duel break system.

 

You have already learned that you cannot reply on what is said on the telephone so either communicate in writing or get a telephone recorder so you have proof of what has been said or agreed.

 

I am assuming you don't live in Scotland where the law is different.

 

Who is the finance company?

 

I have emailed the Finance Company stating all of the above, I am yet to receive a reply... I have been told it could take up to 8 weeks before they do, if they do not reply with 8 weeks then I can go to omnusbman?

[Haunted]

I am not sure why you did not supply the bank with a copy of your tenancy agreement when you moved as that would have resolved a few issues immediately. We have moved several times in the past and none of our DDs have been affected so I am a bit puzzled why your DD would have been refused unless there were insufficient funds?

Only the finance company can change the date for the DD and not the bank? BTW how would the finance company know that DD would bounce unless you told them that there would be insufficient funds? Perhaps if you clarify, we could offer better and more pertinent advice?

Are you able to supply some figures relating to finance agreement to show total finance, amount paid and whether you have paid at least 1/3. If you have paid more than a 1/3 then they would have required a court order. I am not sure about the private land as it appears public have access to it. However the neighbour could claim for damages to their vehicle.

 

There is no tenancy agreement - I'm still waiting for that from the new Landlord - He's the neighbours Uncle - I've already spoken with them regarding the other vehicle that was damaged and they're fuming.

 

With regards to funds, the money was and is still sat in the account.

[Surfer01]

There is no tenancy agreement - I'm still waiting for that from the new Landlord - He's the neighbours Uncle - I've already spoken with them regarding the other vehicle that was damaged and they're fuming.

 

With regards to funds, the money was and is still sat in the account.

 

If they never changed the date their end, why wasn't the DD processed? If money is available, surely it would have prudent to pay them the moment you realised that the DD had not been processed or hadn't they processed it from their end? The bank should be able to tell you if the DD was presented.

[Haunted]

The first two payment issues were due to my partner, she mistakenly assumed that the dates had been changed back in June and therefore took money out after the 18th - Due to them not changing the date when informed in June all mail went to the previous address - as of which as stated with the person in November, he admitted that there was a note against my account that I had contacted them in June but nothing had been changed on the account - he apologised and changed everything over there and then.

 

He even stated that it was clearly a mistake on their behalf and we admitted fault with the removal of funds on the two occasions - as stated above we arranged a payment plan to cover those two months, but he did not tell me anything about their policy where the DD was cancelled nor that I had to make arrangements to pay the monthly instalment.

 

The only time anything was discussed about payments was when he gave me the Sort Code and Bank Account in order to pay the outstanding overdue amounts.

[garage flower]

Two payments is enough for an account to be defaulted and terminated, especially this early on in the agreement. The direct debit being cancelled may have been because the agreement had been terminated by the lender? Look into the date the account was terminated and if this is before the payment was due you may have an argument that they prevented you from paying.Until you know for sure and have a mechanic diagnose a problem with the car you can't argue that it is broken as it may be fine. It's a bit like schrodinger's cat in that you don't know the condition of the car.As I've said the only way I can see you gaining anything from this is if the car was taken from private land in which case it was collected illegally.

[Let Them Knock]

It's a bit like schrodinger's cat in that you don't know the condition of the car.

 

Schrodinger's cat was both alive and dead, wasn't it?

 

That aside, as I previously said (and GarageFlower has now said), the car may not be damaged. Not all autos are when towed, and virtually all cars now have dual braking systems.

 

However a person may NOT repossess from land which they have entered as a trespasser - open or not.

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

The Consumer Credit Act says nothing about the creditor not being allowed to trespass to repossess. What it actually prohibits (without a court order) is entering "premises" to recover possession, and "premises" is not defined. It's never been tested in the courts, but it's highly arguable that "premises" means a building, in which case taking from a private drive without a court order is fine. And anyway, despite what one poster says, a breach of that section does NOT mean the debtor gets all his payments back. All he is entitled to is damages for trespass/breach of statutory duty to reflect his actual loss. And the OP's actual loss from repossessing from his landlord's drive is...nothing.

 

It's also the debtor's duty to make payments, not the creditor's to ask him for them. If for any reason the DD wasn't collected, it was down to the OP to perform his contractual obligation to make payments by other means.

[Let Them Knock]

I really don't want to argue with anyone else's opinion on the point of repossessing from private land. I speak from experience - two seperate cases of unlawful repossession where cars were taken from ungated driveways (albeit both several years ago). In both cases the car was returned without anyone going to court. In one case the car was lawfully repossessed about three days later. The agreement had been breached (by the unlawful repossession), the breach was rectified (by the car's return) and then lawfully repossessed.