Atos Assessment in need of an Audio Recorder.

[**Margaret**]

:WANTED:

 

One Neal Portable Compact Disc Audio Interview Recorder.

(Or a dual tape recorder cadged from Work n Pensions, not much fussed which.)

 

One Atos Pinocchio who's prepared to be recorded.

(Could be trickier to find than a recording machine that's working.)

 

One Atos appointments/resources clerk who can read a calender and read a map.

 

My home's roughly equidistant between two Atos assessment centres. The slightly nearer one A is inaccessible to me cos of my condition. Centre B is far more user friendly. My husband can't take me to an assessment on Mondays or Fridays. Five months ago I asked Atos for an audio recorded, mid-week assessment at centre B. Currently, they've offered a non-recorded appointment, at centre A, at 4 pm on a Friday afternoon!

 

Couple of weeks ago I replied to their invite (via recorded delivery) with a reminder about my advance written request for an audio recorded assessment, etcetera, and copied the letter to my reassessment benefit delivery centre. Was I expecting a reply? Not really! Shatos don't do courtesy!! Guess tonight's job is pre-empting a failure to attend!!!

 

Margaret.

Edited December 12, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:WANTED:

 

In addition to the above and by order of Jobcentreplus;

 

One Shatos clerk who can read and respond to a letter!

 

Sent a chaser to Shatos and copied it, for info, to the benefit delivery centre that's handling incapacity benefit reassessment for the Midlands area. Both letters signed for the following day (neither of the offices I'm currently dealing with appear to use opening units) so plenty of time for Shatos to respond? Apparently not!!

 

Come yesterday morning I'm in no mood for the Shatos call carousel so it's chapter n verse to a bemused benefit processor. Mr XXXXX hasn't a clue why Jobcentreplus has the two letters (originals) that I sent to Shatos, concerning arrangements for my face to face assessment (with my quotes from Mr Hoban attached to one of them), but doesn't have the ESA55 file jacket or its contents.!!! Best guess answers on a postcard???

 

In the meantime Mr XXXXX will instruct Shatos to write to me with a suitable rescheduled appointment and rescheduled, by Shatos, appointments are not counted as failure to attend, or unable to attend. Can't wait.

 

Margaret.

Edited December 16, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:CAUTION:

 

Thus far, letter tennis with Atos/Jobcentreplus, and if absolutely necessary a phone call to the relevant benefit delivery centre, has worked well for me but I'm always pro-active with Atos/Jobcentreplus and it's dammed hard work keeping up with the letters.

 

Some CAGGERS have found electronic mail to Atos customer relations useful ([email protected].) but again it needs to be pro-active.

 

Reactive letter tennis after a failure to attend for, or submit to, an assessment simply cos there's no audio recorder has yet to be tested at tribunal, and there's no assessment rate employment n support payable pending an appeal hearing for failure to attend.

 

For newbies the issue is discussed in the following thread;

 

www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336827

 

Best wishes to any n all caught in the Shatos shambles, Margaret.

Edited December 15, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:A LETTER:

 

From Shatos;

 

The letter, dated 19 December, informed me that due to unforseen/changed circumstances my appointment for Friday 14 December had been cancelled!!

 

[reallymadwoman]

Efficiency at it's best!

[Nystagmite]

They took their time!

[Invalidation]

From Atos Victims group website

 

Yesterday, the DWP disclosed that it has been sitting on legal advice, for over two years, to the effect that its WCA ‘​recording rules’​ were illegal

 

Legal advice has been obtained to confirm that recording of assessments for claimants must be allowed without unreasonable obstructions

[reallymadwoman]

From Atos Victims group website

 

Yesterday, the DWP disclosed that it has been sitting on legal advice, for over two years, to the effect that its WCA ‘​recording rules’​ were illegal

 

Legal advice has been obtained to confirm that recording of assessments for claimants must be allowed without unreasonable obstructions

 

But see this post on the audio recording thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336827-Announcement-ESA-claimants-now-have-the-option-of-having-their-WCA-recorded&p=4085078&viewfull=1#post4085078

 

It seems ATOS are still insisting on dual recorders which have to be calibrated prior to the assessment, though they're not insisting on an engineer to operate it!

[Invalidation]

It seems ATOS are still insisting on dual recorders which have to be calibrated prior to the assessment, though they're not insisting on an engineer to operate it!

 

Thats correct but its now been disclosed that according to their contract with the DWP via Document RFP27 that they are now legally obligated to provide recording facilities if they are required by claimants.

So it really doesnt matter what they insist on, they are now legally obligated to make recording of all assessments where they are requested by the claimant

[**Margaret**]

:Request for Proposal 27 (September 2010):

 

'...... Legal advice has been obtained to confirm that recording of assessments for the claimant must be allowed without unreasonable obstructions.'

 

Whilst the above (probably accidental) disclosure is good news for anyone who wants an Atos disability assessment for benefit purposes to be recorded, the rest of the document is merely an enquiry from Work n Pensions to Atos about how assessments can be audio recorded. Unfortunately I don't think it imposes any statuatory responsibility on Atos or Work n Pensions to record assessments.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

:Nastos New Year:

 

Late morning, on one of the first days of the new year I'd just connected our phone line. Immediately the phone flashed. Still half asleep and expecting a call from my husband I answered it without checking for caller identity.

 

Twas Nastos phoning to cancel an appointment I didn't even know I had. Allegedly I'd accepted the appointment by phone, which for me is a non starter, and must've received a letter. Anyways, I wasn't to turn up. Nastos wasn't doing any 'medicals' at all that day. They'd had a technology failure and couldn't record them.

 

Starryeyes (by then wide awake)

Do you mean LIMA's failed or an audio recorder?

 

Nastos

LIMA?

 

Starryeyes

Yeah, you know, the computer system you lot use to churn out ESA85s.

 

Nastos

Err...... Umm...... Err......

We can't record 'medicals' today.

 

 

LIMA:?: Or an audio recorder:?: Or praps they couldn't find a pinocchio:?:

 

:?:

Edited January 17, 2013 by **Margaret**

[Invalidation]

:Request for Proposal 27 (September 2010):

 

'...... Legal advice has been obtained to confirm that recording of assessments for the claimant must be allowed without unreasonable obstructions.'

 

Whilst the above (probably accidental) disclosure is good news for anyone who wants an Atos disability assessment for benefit purposes to be recorded, the rest of the document is merely an enquiry from Work n Pensions to Atos about how assessments can be audio recorded. Unfortunately I don't think it imposes any statuatory responsibility on Atos or Work n Pensions to record assessments.

 

Margaret.

No it doesnt impose any statutory requirement. It imposes and requires them by a CONTRACTUAL obligation.

must be allowed without unreasonable obstructions.

[**Margaret**]

: ? ? ? ? ? ? :

Edited January 19, 2013 by **Margaret**

[Galeforce81]

I was on going with my friend to their medical, while on the way there ATOS phoned to say that the appointment was cancelled.

We then stopped of to buy a drink from a shop before going to ATOS to get a complaint form as we thought it was unacceptable for them to cancel in at such a late stage.

 

We got there 20mins after the time the appointment was origionally for and the receptionist says that it would be classed as a NON ATTENDANCE.

 

They said its because we wouldn't have got there on time had the appointment gone ahead.

They wouldn't listen to our reasonings, just said that they would send another appointment through the post which would have to be attended, we couldn't rearrange for any reason.

 

How on earth can they say that, when they cancelled it when we were 10mins away. (It takes at least 45mins to get there, getting 2 buses). So what if we went there anyway. We didn't want it to be a wasted journey. Its not like they would reimburse us for the bus fares either.

[RaeUK]

Did the number show up on your mobile when they called? If so save it to your pc.

[Galeforce81]

OH NO!! It came up unknown. Good job he doesn't mind answering phones. IF i had a phone, i wouldn't have answered it.

[**Margaret**]

:Hello Galeforce81:

 

Welcome to my saga of Shatos and rescheduled appointments. For most of us who want our messicals audio recorded rescheduled appointments are par for the course. My search actually began last July, at the height of the furore when Shatos and Jobcentreplus tried to cancel recorded messicals althought the Government minister concerned had assured Parliament we only had to ask. Yeah, right? We wish.

 

Aside from the attrition over audio recorders and the reluctance of pinocchios to use them, anecdotal evidence suggests Shatos are rescheduling more and more appointments without any reason they're admitting to. Including your friend's we've had three on CAG in as many days, and I'm aware of several others in my area.

 

Your friend's senario was a rescheduled by Shatos, for which he should've been re-imbursed his bus fares, rather than a did not attend. May be important if he does need to rearrange the rescheduled appointment. If he's already rearranged an appointment Shatos are correct about him accepting whatever they send. Shatos don't routinely withhold their phone numbers so this must've been a deliberate cover-up. The call should've come from the number of the assessment centre so make a note of that instead, together with details of what happened.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[Galeforce81]

Thanks Margaret. Luckily this was last year, but as we are both on ESA and i get PIP, we know that its not going to be the last time we have problems with them.

 

I got my appointment for a f2f before i'd even sent back my forms as i needed my support worker to fill them out and had put on form my reason why it was going to be late.

Its like they were mind readers as they made the appointment for one of the few times i wouldn't be able to attend.

 

Do you know anything about rules regarding PIP (when it is introduced). I read somewhere that we are going to be allowed to record our medicals as long as the format is tape or video. The technologys a bit outdated but it may be a step in the right direction.

(sorry if this was answered on another thread)

[**Margaret**]

:Galeforce81:

 

'I read somewhere that we are going to be allowed to record our medicals ......'

 

Well, that's the theory. Whether any of us will ever get to ouvertly record a messical to tape, disc or video is an entirely separate issue.

 

Rather than playing parrot, can I refer you to:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336827-Announcement-ESA-claimants-now-have-the-option-of-having-their-WCA-recorded/

 

http://whatdotheyknow.com/

 

View all requests, with Atos Audio Recording in the keywords box.

 

Concerning personal independence assessments, current wisdom seems to be:

 

The 'reasonable conditions' for using personal equipment will be the same as for work capability assessments.

Capita, who have the contract for the Midlands area, will audio record personal independence assessments.

Neither Shatos nor Work n Pensions have any plans to provide recording facilities for personal independence assessments.

 

Happy , Margaret.

Edited February 2, 2013 by **Margaret**

[Invalidation]

Thanks Margaret. Luckily this was last year, but as we are both on ESA and i get PIP, we know that its not going to be the last time we have problems with them.

 

You get PIP ?????????? dont think so.

[Galeforce81]

You get PIP ?????????? dont think so.

 

SORRY TYPO. All this talking and thinking about it got me confused. I get DLA.

[**Margaret**]

:Round Four:

 

Margaret has another invite for a Tatos trial, without any indication of whether it's to be audio recorded. Nothing unusual in that. From one of our local resources clerks, 'well, we sometimes send a separate letter, depends if we've time.' However, for several reasons, I've decided not to play letter tennis for this round.

 

Apart from anything else, the process for requesting an audio recorded Tatos trial has changed since round two. Incredibly, there's been three different processes since I lost patience with an ESA50 and returned a statement in lieu of ticking boxes. Of which the latest, is to phone their unhelpful desk. Not much use to anyone who can't reliably cope with phone calls, specially the ones they lose or won't take cos of third party issues.

 

Appointment's not at my default Tatos centre. Someone in Tatosland has finally tumbled to our request for a centre that's easier for me to access. And a request from Jobcentreplus for an appointment time that my husband can take me to. (Long story following my receipt of an erroneous BF223 last July.) So it's a reasonable assumption that they've noted my request for an audio recorded trial, yes? As previous letters already run to ten sides of A4, the trees need a break.

 

My perception's that the essence of audio recorded, by Tatos, work capability assessments has changed slightly since last year. We've had several success stories on CAG and the extra machines in my area seem to be making a difference too. It's now months of DWATO legitimised waiting instead of sometime never. So for the moment, Margaret's plan is to play Miss Goody Two Shoes. I'm not complacent, and I've no expectation of recording for everyone who wants it any time soon. (Neither do I know of any openly recorded by claimant assessments.) If I show up and the audio recorder doesn't, Jobcentreplus'll get chapter n verse. Again!

 

for now, Margaret.

 

:flame:

Edited June 3, 2013 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:Great Expectations? Or Not:

 

In the very week that Mr Hoban reiterated;

 

'We will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded'

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?s=audio+recorded+Atos+assessments

 

'Due to unforeseen/changed circumstances your appointment has been cancelled.

Yours Sincerely Medical Services'

 

As the appointment was at the right centre and at a time when my husband could take me; I can only assume they were short of an audio recorder, a pinocchio (despite the recent change to their contracts), or both.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

: DWATO and Dictaphones:

 

Or should that be 'two appropriate devices'

(https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-capability-assessment-audio-recording-of-face-to-face-assessments-faqs)

 

No, I don't know either and DWATO certainly don't.

 

In the wake of yet another cancellation, that we assumed (erroneously) was for lack of an audio recorder, my husband renewed his efforts to ascertain from DWATO a make/model of dictaphone or appropriate device that's acceptable for audio recorded by claimant work capability assessments. Talk about going round in circles even though, where appropriate, we were disclosing my national insurance number. To summarise;

 

Atos customer relations haven't replied to our electronic mails or letters.

Our local resources clerk and our regional manager have both advised that I wait for one of their machines. But the clerk will find out what the process is for approval of dictaphones.

To date there haven't been any, audio recorded by a claimant using two dictaphones, assessments in the East Midlands.

My last assessment was cancelled cos, 'the healthcare professional who does the recorded assessments was on sick leave'.

 

Clearly the malady of Doctor Douglas and his colleagues is contagious!!!

(http://disabilitynewsservice.com/2013/06/atos-doctor-sickened-by-claimant-requests/)

 

:spider:remains on watch for assessor and audio recorder(s).

 

Margaret.

Edited August 21, 2013 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:Another Shatossy, Tatossy, Week:

 

Tuesday

 

Allegedly I had an appointment for a work capability assessment at my default Tatos assessment centre. Not for the first time, I didn't know anything about it.

 

Wednesday

 

Received an instantly recognised Tatos envelope.

 

Dated 27th August 2013

 

'We recently asked you to attend a medical assessment on 27th August 2013 ...... We have now received more information and we no longer need you to come to this assessment.'

 

Thursday

 

Doctor's surgery hasn't heard from Tatos (or Jobcentreplus) about me since an IB113 was requested in 2004. IB50 not needed.

 

Got discharged from hospital circa 1985 cos there was nothing else to try.

 

A (very) long shot; praps Tatos had contacted the co-ordinator of a self-help group I attend? They hadn't, but she did have a patient who'd received an identical letter. As Tatos were already on her 'to do' list, if I'd like to drop in on ......

 

Friday

 

Cue a lengthy turn on the call carousel even though she gave 08002 888777 a miss and started with a regional manager. By mid afternoon, via engaged tones, transfers, two disconnections, three Tatos offices and the incapacity benefit reassessment centre for my area;

 

My file's been recalled by Jobcentreplus. There's no suggestion that I've 'failed to attend', just as well as I've managed to get four cancellation letters out of them.

 

And from Mr XXXXX of #2 fame, 'I'm not to worry. The recall won't affect payment of my incapacity benefit. And Jobcentreplus will contact me in due course.'

 

Margaret.

Edited September 1, 2013 by **Margaret**