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    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
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Alleged Failure to inform DVLA of vehicle sale

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Good agternoon guys and gals...

 

Hoping you can help me out here.

 

I sold my car last October, did all the usual, and sent off the bottom slip to the DVLA. I think it was in May, they sent a letter, regards Taxing the car, so I rang them, letting them know they had sent the renual to the wrong address and should resend to its new owner. No problems there.

 

But about a month ago, I received a summons to magistrates court today, as a start of legal proceedings.

 

I went along, and asked exactly where there is any evidence of my not sending off the neccesary paperwork, and got told all they need is a "section 9"??? for them to take me to court.

 

Seriously... its a piece of paper, printed out with a DVLA header, and someone saying they cant find my paperwork.

 

First off, how does this hold ANY weight in court, I could knock this up on my computer in seconds, and sign it, saying that I've sent it... Effectively, there is no actual evidence one way or another, just someone pointing a finger and saying "you did a naughty" well, I'm very sorry, but I didn't, and I wont pay for some elses mistake.

 

Secondly, given that DVLA are prone to making mistakes, regularly, how can they justify chasing up on the say so of one of their staff?

 

Thirdly, Why are the courts listening to these incompetent idiots?

 

Fourthly, if they dont tell me the documentation hasn't arrived, how can I know whats happened, especially with the third party being the royal mail, a company that looses 1 million letters a week?

 

Last of all, how do I get these people off my back? Because there is no way I'm pleading guilty, theres no way I'm paying any fines or costs. It will end up a simple case of them having to give me a costodial sentance in order for them to get anything.

 

I hate that the little man can get dragged through court on the say so of one employee of any Government agency, and the fact that there is nothing in the way of actual evidence absolutely disgusts me.

 

Please help, thanks in advance

 

Martin

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If they are sending you tax reminders 6 months after you have sold the car alarm bells should be ringing! From what i have read you do not have to send it recorded or even get proof of posting but i for one would do both when dealing with these mercenaries! likewise chances are your notification of sale aknowledgment could just as easy go missing in the postal network.


 

 

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.”

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I take it from the lack of responce, I'm knackered? Was hoping there was some basis in law that goes along the lines of "innocent until proven guilty" leaving the DVLA the task of actually producing some evidence that proves I did not post the slip...

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I sold my car last October, did all the usual, and sent off the bottom slip to the DVLA.

 

Can you be more specific about what you claim you sent to the DVLA please.

 

There is no "slip" that you should have sent to the DVLA. You should have given the V5C/2 to the new keeper which is the green section 10 from the V5C and sent the ENTIRE REMAINING DOCUMENT, specifically sections 1 through 8 to the DVLA.

 

Is this what you did?

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I haven't done this for a while but last time i sent something to the DVLA because i'd scrapped a car i seem to remember the small print saying something about if i hadn't received an acknowledgement within 14 days to contact them.

 

Can't you get then to check who is insured to drive it? There shouldn't be any data protection issues as they think you still own the car?

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Can't you get then to check who is insured to drive it? There shouldn't be any data protection issues as they think you still own the car?

 

Why would the DVLA know who is insured to sdrive it and what relevance would that be to their fine?

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I have the same problem. I sentthe v5 off to the dvla when i sold my car in may 2012. I havent had anything from them until last week when i got a court summons to attend in april 2013. I had a tax reminder 2 months after i sold the car so phoned them and was told to send a letter in, which i did. I have moved and cant find any paperwork for the car now. I dont know where to go with this either but i am not pleading guilty to something i have done twice.


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Hi Lelu, attend court and plead not guilty. They don't have a leg t stand on.

 

Have a look around for other threads that match your situation exactly.

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ME TOO, I sent of my v5 and forgot about it, i then got a tax reminder so i rang the dvla, they said i had to write a letter stating when i sold it and who to, i did this but ommitted the VRM by mistake so it was returned to me, I did not get round to returning it straight away but shortly after i received a fine for failing to insure, (the new owner taxed the car with the green slip), I then sent a letter of appeal explaining the circumstances and received a letter stating they "would" let me know the outcome but i am still responsible until i have received an acknowledgement letter stating i was not the owner,(i received that the same day as the other letter) As far as i am aware i fulfilled my obligation by ringing them to tell them i had not received a reply to my Change of ownership, thats all the law states, it doesn't say ring them and follow their instructions!. I await their decission but i can guess what it will be

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Hi There, Ive a similar problem, sold my quad,filled in the V5 & sent it off, got a letter from DVLA stating that they have not received the V5 bk.. Im now waiting to go to court..

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I'm having the same issue as most on here.

Sold the car last May, got a letter in October demanding a fine, rang to say that the car had been sold and that I had sent the V5C the same day as the buyer collected the car.

 

I got another letter not long after asking for the details of the new owner (which I don't have) and also demanding £55 for the privilege of not taking me to court.

Wrote back giving them a printout of the auction (eBay) and advised them that I no longer have the details of the buyer as that information was on the remainder of the V5C document which was sent to them.

I got a reply a couple of weeks later stating that it is my responsibility to contact them for about an acknowledgement letter within 14 days.

 

Basically, the back and fourth between me and the DVLA has resulted in me being summonsed to court.

And that day is tomorrow.

 

I'll let you know in a new thread the result.

All I can say is that if I lose, I'll be putting in an appeal straight away.

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don't forget to take a copy of the interpretations act with you, specifically section 7 which is where it states that once you have posted the document it is deemed to have been received unless they can prove otherwise. Remember their favourite "defence" against the interpretation Act is they require it to be "delivered" and the Act doesn't use that word. But the Act does clearly state that it covers "whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used"

 

Under the Interpretation Act 1978 Section 7, it states:

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

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I'm having the same issue as most on here.

Sold the car last May, got a letter in October demanding a fine, rang to say that the car had been sold and that I had sent the V5C the same day as the buyer collected the car.

 

I got another letter not long after asking for the details of the new owner (which I don't have) and also demanding £55 for the privilege of not taking me to court.

Wrote back giving them a printout of the auction (eBay) and advised them that I no longer have the details of the buyer as that information was on the remainder of the V5C document which was sent to them.

I got a reply a couple of weeks later stating that it is my responsibility to contact them for about an acknowledgement letter within 14 days.

 

Basically, the back and fourth between me and the DVLA has resulted in me being summonsed to court.

And that day is tomorrow.

 

I'll let you know in a new thread the result.

All I can say is that if I lose, I'll be putting in an appeal straight away.

 

Please let me know how it goes as l have same issue, sold car two months ago , contacted dvla last week as l received parking fine, and they said to just send my details they didn't need new keeper , will they take me off as keeper of the car without the new keeper details , lm worried coz tax runs out on 30 April and the buyer is not responding my texts and mails , can l use the reminder tax disc to sorn the car

Im confused

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Im still waiting for any court sum' from them, but I think this is in the post,if they have not lost it by now,Ha-Ha,ill keep U posted:lol:

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Im still waiting for any court sum' from Them but I think this is in the post,if they have not lost it by now,Ha-Ha,ill keep U posted:lol:

Edited by mike-marshall
missed spelt

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I have had lots of these sort of dealings with them .... I hate DVLA. I think they should just let us all do their job for them and get it all done online and print off the proof. They would just need a small amount of staff to help people with no computer. Surly they could do that without messing it up!!!

1 sorn went guilty to this as I never kept proof and didn't have a leg to stand on.

2 cars sold and posted paper work never recieved

 

Partner has one just now for motorbike sold. We had 2 bikes made into one and sold it on ebay done paper work then moved. We have just recieved a fine for £305 from court who "with further investigation found him at our new address." Why could DVLA not have found us before they went to the courts? ..... Here we go again. Must be the same useless individual who shreds the paper work for this area, i wish they'd hurry and get caught :)

 

 

You should always go to court no matter what.

Say your piece respectfully to the Magistrate

take as much information with you

set up a face book account solely for the messing up of V5 documents by DVLA (Iwill do this if people join) so you can easily print it off and take it with you to show their incompetence (I love this site but its hard to copy and paste the same sort of complaint to take to court or send to MP's)

 

sorry RANT over


:wink: knowledge gives you strength, wishing you all good luck with your individual fight:smile:

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You need to keep on at them and the parking ticket will be a different issue be careful and don't give up :)


:wink: knowledge gives you strength, wishing you all good luck with your individual fight:smile:

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