Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I received the first signs of life from Shell Energy's "legal counsel" regarding the 1st claim and default judgement awarded against them.   I have attached a redacted copy of the letter where they indicate they look forward to receiveing a letter of confirmation.   I am confident I know why they have sent this request and more importantly how they intend to use any response.   I have prepared two options.   1. Ignore their letter (This is probably the best option).   2. Reply succinctly.     Shell Energy - Warrant of Control Response - Redacted.pdf
    • I found an old defence I used and tweaked a bit. Unfortunately I think I messed up in not asking for a statement in my cpr, while it wasnt referred to in the poc it does have the amount. There were no paragraphs and it looks like it was done on a phone or even an excel import??. I dont know if not requesting the cpr means I cant ask for proof of how they got the amount?   Is that enough about the lack of account details?, I mean my cabot ref is at the top of the page but 100% no aqua account number on here. That would surely come under having to prove    Please feel free to tweak etc. Wasnt sure how to word the s78 stuff as I didnt want to lie with it being not in default till weds.     Photo of poc is shown above to show how lacking it is in format in particular        Defence:   1.     The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   2.     It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with New Day LTD RE Aqua. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant.   3.     No account details are given in the particulars of claim linking the claim to the defendant.   4.     It is denied or I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the Claimant or New Day LTD RE Aqua.   5.     It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of the Agreement/Assignment/Default notice or Termination requested by CPR 31. 14, and will shortly be in default of my section 78 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; (b) show and evidence the breach and service of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974 on which the Termination referred to relies upon. (c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   6. On the 17th of November I requested to The Claimants Solicitors, Mortimer Clarke by way of a CPR 31.14 copies of the documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. Mortimer Clarke have failed to fulfill my CPR 31:14 request.   7. On the 16th of November I made a section 78 legal request to the claimant for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. The claimant has as of of 06/12/21 failed to comply.   8. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • Hi Dixon,   If you don't mind, I'm ignoring the CCJ for the moment.   I'm more interested in what you last said to the police about their failure to investigate the fraud against you commited by FTR Ltd and O'Hara.   If you don't want to post it on-thread, send it to me by PM.
    • ok not to put too finer point on the 'silly' mistake ( as in terms of you are a 'litigant in person' - joe public against the 'system') you made on your claim, there are guides on the same website about raising a claim and how to do it properly, but IMHO there should also be LiP leeway regarding this.   did you seek or read any help, as getting the correct entity to sue is quite important, the example you relate too would not be an issue, but suing a corporate entity is, they have lots of money and clever legal eagles.   i have no doubt that, by whatever way, should you rectify this error , you would be successful mind.   on another issue, have you written to apple uk retail offering to mutually settle this if they pay the price of the device or replace it and call it quits?   i will guess this is all you really wanted at the start and now at the end of the day.?   would you seriously lose out money wise if this were agreed?        
    • Parag Agrawal, Twitter's new CEO, is the latest of several Indian-Americans leading global tech firms.View the full article
  • Our picks

Verdant and CitiCards


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5334 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Verdant

Instead of using RM website ring the number on the Recorded delivery reciept, I ,ve had a few lettrs not come up on the site but when you phone they were delivered:confused:

 

AL

-------------------------

CAPITAL ONE * SETTLED*31st Oct 06

HBOS *SETTLED* 8th Oct 06

WOOLWICH *SETTLED*12thJan2007

Monument (Barclays) *SETTLED*10thMar2007

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I've been preparing the particulars on MCOL in case Citi don't come through with a full refund of my charges this week. I'm using the information from the library about completing the particulars.

 

I'm wondering about my costs. Can I put in an amount for my costs, mainly postage, paper, envelopes and time. If I can do I put the costs in with the amount of my claim in section 5, or in section 7 (costs allowed by the court), or do I add another section?

 

As I'm self employed and charge a fixed hourly rate for my services, can I charge the time it's taken me to pursue this claim as a cost?

Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I can gather people are only claiming for the amount they are due in penalty charges + interest.

 

If people are doing otherwise here would be nice to know.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes i have seen a thread discussing just that, charging for time, the actual process may and sounds a bit complicated from what i can remember.

I'll try and retrace my steps and see if i can find it again.

 

AL

-------------------------

CAPITAL ONE * SETTLED*31st Oct 06

HBOS *SETTLED* 8th Oct 06

WOOLWICH *SETTLED*12thJan2007

Monument (Barclays) *SETTLED*10thMar2007

Link to post
Share on other sites

Think that you as the claimant are protected from costs from the other side when you enter into a small claims case, as such it would be logical that the other side would be protected from any claims for costs that you would have against the defendent.

 

Though obviously this would need clarifying.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You cannot claim costs in the SCC - v other than your fixed costs - ie the cost of bringing the claim -the threads you have ben reading re hourly costs are most likely cases that have been fast tracked.

 

Phew thanks Gizmo i could have been here for hours, oh i have been:o

 

AL:)

-------------------------

CAPITAL ONE * SETTLED*31st Oct 06

HBOS *SETTLED* 8th Oct 06

WOOLWICH *SETTLED*12thJan2007

Monument (Barclays) *SETTLED*10thMar2007

Link to post
Share on other sites

You cannot claim costs in the SCC - v other than your fixed costs - ie the cost of bringing the claim -the threads you have ben reading re hourly costs are most likely cases that have been fast tracked.

 

What is counted as a cost of bringing the claim? The 14 days I gave them in my LBA is up today and I want to submit my MCOL this evening. Any advice gratefully received.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When you file your MCOL online, you`ll enter the total of charges you are claiming, work out the interest using the spreadsheet available on here.

 

The cost of filing the MCOL will automatically be applied.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Case will eventually be transferred to the county court closest to you, at which point no doubt Citi will try and get it transferred to Salford - if you send in a written letter at this point objecting it won't happen.

 

Need anymore info just ask.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The claim was served on Tuesday 23rd January. Citi filed an acknowledgement stating they intend to defend all of the claim.

 

I'm not sure how they can justify a defence of the full amount when they have previously stated in court that their estimate of the true cost is £12.88 (I think that's right) and all of the charges they have applied to my account were for more than that amount.

 

I could understand it if they wanted to defend part of it. I wonder if the recent order by a judge about Lloyds TSB could be brought to bear here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The ywil ldefend whole amount cos somewhere along the line they will pay you the difference between £25 and £12 - be careful you don't cash any cheques sent in full and final settlement. Their defence will reveal all.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately Citi are contesting and defending the majority of cases, so unfortunately don't think the recent Lloyds order will be applicable.

 

However it wouldn't hurt to contact the court when you fill in your AQ and include the following draft order, along with your schedule of charges:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html

 

As Gizmo stated, they recently sent a cheque and included the words `final settlement` in the letter - study any letter carefully from Citi that includes payment because if it includes these words and you cash they cheque your case is over in the eyes of the court.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, im fairly new to all this but i am currently taking HSBC to court for around £1500 but i am very wary of doing the same with Citi cards as i have read that they are actually contesting the claims?! i have sent the usual 2 letters before court action asking/demanding they pay me the £763 that they have charged me (including interest). I have recieved a letter from a Mark Clibbens saying that "it may take between three and six weeks as they (statements) are retrieved from our archives" blah,blah and that he will confirm in writing the outcome, so what i want to know is do i to to moneyclaim online? Please,please can you/anyone help or advise me? Many thanks-Craig

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there, im fairly new to all this but i am currently taking HSBC to court for around £1500 but i am very wary of doing the same with Citi cards as i have read that they are actually contesting the claims?! i have sent the usual 2 letters before court action asking/demanding they pay me the £763 that they have charged me (including interest). I have recieved a letter from a Mark Clibbens saying that "it may take between three and six weeks as they (statements) are retrieved from our archives" blah,blah and that he will confirm in writing the outcome, so what i want to know is do i to to moneyclaim online? Please,please can you/anyone help or advise me? Many thanks-Craig

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I haven't been updating this thread recently as we moved house and I've had no Internet access at home, but I'm up and running again now.

 

Citi finally filed a defence on Thursday 22nd Feb, just two working days before the 28 day limit. I don't have a copy of their defence as yet but I assume it will be fairly standard stuff. On MCOL it says that the defendant disputes the whole amount so I was surprised to receive a letter this morning from Brian Smith offering me £187.00 as an ex gratia payment of the difference between each of the charges and £12.

 

The letter contains a paragraph: In over a dozen recent court cases involving Citi, we have successfully argued the fairness of the above policy and the fairness of the £12 charges. The cases have all resulted in the claims being dismissed and the courts have implicitly held that the policy is fair and the charges reasonable, being in line with both OFT guidance and common law principles of damage for breach of contract.

As I mentioned earlier, I've not been able to keep up with the comings and goings of the Citi soap opera recently. Is it true that Citi have succesfully defended these claims for the final £12 of each charge, or is it another attempt to mislead?

 

Am I right in assuming I can cash the cheque with prejudicing my case?

Link to post
Share on other sites

DO NOT CASH THE CHEQUE WHATEVER YOU DO!!

 

If you do,it's all over.Mine was the first ever case they showed up for,and of course we got a gullible judge who accepted EVERYTHING they said as fact,and did not even let us see the paperwork they were depending on.

 

APPEALED and ongoing....

Link to post
Share on other sites

The letter contains a paragraph: In over a dozen recent court cases involving Citi, we have successfully argued the fairness of the above policy and the fairness of the £12 charges. The cases have all resulted in the claims being dismissed and the courts have implicitly held that the policy is fair and the charges reasonable, being in line with both OFT guidance and common law principles of damage for breach of contract.

 

Thye didn't mention the ones thattehy haven't been successful on - the judge in my case last week didn't fall for their arguments and ordered ful ldisclosure.

 

What does it say about the cheque?

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thye didn't mention the ones thattehy haven't been successful on - the judge in my case last week didn't fall for their arguments and ordered ful ldisclosure.

 

They couldn't attempt to mislead if they told us the facts about all the cases.

 

What does it say about the cheque?

 

I'll post the full letter:

 

Dear Verdant,

 

Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I act on behalf of CitiFinancial Europe plc and I am writing to you in response to your complaint regarding the default charges applied to your account.

 

I assume that your complaint was made as a result of the recent statement by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) on default fees charged by the UK credit card industry.

 

My client has adopted the same practices as the entire UK credit card industry and, with that industry, disagrees with the OFT's interpretation of the law relating to default charges. Please note that the OFT recognises that its interpretation does not have the force of law, having never been decided by a court, and is therefore merely persuasive.

 

Moreover, the OFT did acknowledge that default fees are not themselves unlawful, but simply confined itself to stating that it believed that the level of default charges imposed by the UK credit card industry to be unfair. Therefore, if you breach your contract, we are and always were, entitled to levy a default fee, just not one in excess of £12.00.

 

The OFT did not say in its statement that all such charges are unfair; it merely set a recommended threshold of £12.00 to reflet the balance of information given to it by many of the banks that these charges are based on a number of factors and not just, as is commonly supposed, the price of a stamp or the envelope,etc.

 

In line with the OFT statement, therefore, I have advised my client that, in your case, as a previous cardholder who has been charged six late fees of £25.00, one over limit fee of £25.00, six late fees of £20.00 and six over limit fees of £20.00 which is a total of £415.00, it would be appropriate to write off the difference between our charges and the OFT's recommended level of £12.00. Having reviewed your account, I have therefore recommended that the sum of £187.00 be written off, reflecting the difference between £415.00 and £288.00 had the charges been £12.00. This amount has been written off on an ex gratia basis and enclosed as a cheque

 

In the event that you are not satisfied with this and proceed to issue a claim for the full amount, CitiFinancial will defend this on the basis of the OFT's own statement and analysis of the lawful level of default charges.

 

In over a dozen recent court cases involving Citi, we have successfully argued the fairness of the above policy and the fairness of the £12 charges. The cases have all resulted in the claims being dismissed and the courts have implicitly held that the policy is fair and the charges reasonable, being in line with both OFT guidance and common law principles of damage for breach of contract.

 

Any defence will also exercise the defendant's right to seek to have the claim transferredto its home court, i.e. Salford County Court. The legal presumption is that justice should be local to the defendant as the defendant is deemed innocent until proven guilty and ought not to be disadvantaged in defending itself.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Brian Smith

Solicitor

 

 

My reading of the section about the cheque is that it's not a full and final offer and it has no strings attached. I could, however, be quite wrong and just want to make sure before I pay it into my bank account.

 

Innocent until proven guilty; I thought that was criminal law. Perhaps Citi see themselves as criminals.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

After Citi filed their defence I asked for a stay of a month to try and negotiate a settlement. I sent a letter to Citi explaining that in order to reach a negotiated agreement I would need them to explain the basis and structure of their costs in relation to their default charges. They haven't replied. I already had a signed letter from their data protection manager saying that the charges were applied automatically with no manual intervention at all, so I 'm sure their costs in regard to each breach aren't very high at all.

 

In the meantime, District Judge Spencer has issued an order:

 

Upon reading the Claimant and Defendant's Allocation Questionnaires

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT:

1. The Defendant shall by 4.00pm on 30th April 2007 file and serve a summary of the bases in law/judgements/findings of fact in the "dozen" successfully defended cases defended cases referred to in the Defendant's Allocation Questionnaire.

 

2. The file be referred back to District Judge Spencer on 1st May 2007.

 

3. Request to transfer to Salford County Court made in the Allocation Questionnaire is treated as an application and is refused.

 

4. This order was made of the District Judge's own initiative. If you object to the order you must make an application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it.

 

I have a few questions:

 

1. Is this order good/bad/mixed news?

2. At this stage can I still provide draft orders? (I want to ask that Citi disclose the basis of their charges).

3. I realized last night that I used a loan from Citi to pay off my CitiCard account (paying off the card was a condition of the loan). Could I claim for the interest on that part of the loan used to repay the credit card?

4. If I could claim the loan interest, can I modify my claim at this stage?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...