Trying to help a teenage girl

[madpriest]

Hi Guys - As well as my own case posted elsewhere under Santander, I'm trying to help a young girl aged 18 who I met through our homeless network.

 

Said girl left home and as usual for a girl of her age, knows nothing and understands nothing except everyone else has to pay for her lifestyle.

 

Shes on benefits and these are paid into her basic bank account. Her benefits are reduced because she has to pay back a crisis loan and other fines. (She still goes and blows what she has left in 24 hours!)

 

She applied for a 'loan' through some kind of 'club' which charged an 'advance fee' as a kind of membership charge.

 

The Direct debit was paid the first month and then it bounced and before we know it, she has o/d charges being levied daily.

 

Any ideas please? Apart from being ripped off, she needs these o/d charges stopped asap.

 

I guess we could issue an LBA and N1 for the refund of the fees for the 'loan service' ??

 

As far as bank fees - I've totally lost touch with current status even though I've trawled through the forums.

 

Are we currently on CCA and anything else? Unfair terms and conditions? With a forced overdraft on a basic account, is this regarded as a 'loan' and is it covered by CCA.

 

Any ideas of direction would be useful

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

are you saying she has this 'loan' [no link to her 'bank']

 

and now has PENALTY charges from her bank with the 'basic bank account?

 

dx

[BankFodder]

When did she become 18?

 

Most loans to a person less than 18 are void. Once you become 18 if you affirm the contract in some way then it becomes binding.

 

If she has only recently become 18 - and, say, has not made any repayments to some of the loans then it may be possible to deal with them that way.

 

So, date of 18th birthday

list of loans acquired before that date and their status now.

 

That's for starters

 

We can deal with charges separately but by and large, charges to banks are not susceptible to assessment for fairness and therefore cannot be challenged under UTCCR. However, there is always BCOBS - which hasn't been tried yet.

Charges to other kinds of lenders can certainly be challenged - so once again, list of lenders and their charges please - but can you start a new thread for that or else it will get confusing.

 

Please send a link to the new thread to our admin email address - or I might might miss it. Please put "Madpriest" in the subj. line.

ta

[madpriest]

Thanks for that - I'll get all the data together and start a new thread

 

Merci buckets

[madpriest]

I've restarted my thread - the original was just a single post but I've restarted here in the correct section.

 

Trying to help a young 18 year old who has no financial sense whatsoever - Her JSA benefits come in and it's all spent within 24 hours.

 

She opened a Lloyds TSB Classic account to receive her JSA. The silly girl applied for a loan with myloan.co.uk , a typical outfit charging exorbitant rates

to people who can ill afford it.

 

Apparently there us a membership fee of £69.99 which took her o/d - With no overdraft agreement in place, IMHO, this direct debit from myload should have been declined.

 

However the account came back into credit with some inpayments.

 

There was an advice received that the bank would take unplanned O/D fees and interest on 3rd December 2012

of around £76.

 

(BTW the girl has to survive on around £70 per week)

 

So on 3rd December that Fees are taken out which puts the poor girl back into an O/D situation again.

 

The bank then sent a letter dated 5th December saying

 

"You asked us to make a number of payments for you on 4th December. Unfortunately there was not enough money to cover all of them. We have provided you with an Unplanned Overdraft to cover the payments made"

 

Possible Courses of action.

 

Bearing in mind that she is on benefits so any legal action is free at the moment.

 

(1) A BCOBS action. Problem is I can't see a section where Lloyds TSB have broken the rules. I know I could go after the 5.1.1. catch-all but I'm feeling its a bit nebulous.

 

(2) How about a CCA action as they have imposed an overdraft an not got a signature. I'm not sure about this because I seem to recall a recent judgement that said that they dont need to provide the actual document with a signature but could cobble together a composite from a number of sources. Any advice on the use of a CCA action?

 

(3) UTCCR action. Yes I know the Supreme Court appeared to rule it out and the banks have been rubbing our noses in it ever since. However as Mike Dailly of the Govan Law Centre pointed out, the OFT's case fell on a very narrow reading of Reg 6(2) of the UTCCR.

 

I could go for the a stand alone Reg 5(1) Test.

 

Any thoughts or help would be much obliged.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

aha

 

the myloans £69.99 diddle

 

if you look in the payday loans forum

or type in myloans in our search top right

 

you'll see this is reclaimable under chargeback.

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

 

how you go about the 'charges' she got

 

is another matter!

 

dx

[BankFodder]

I asked you earlier about her age and when she took out the loan. Also how old was she when she opened the account?

 

Can you tell us more about how she opened the account?

Presumably she told the bank all about her circumstances? Can you get the full details from her please.

 

Have a look at her bank statement. Presumably it is clear that the money has come from benefits?

 

The questions relating to her age are very important - but assuming that the answers are not helpful then we have to look at the way in which the account was sold to her and was it the appropriate product>

What is her credit history? Have you checked her CRA file?

It seems to me that the bank should have given her a basic account which would have meant no overdraft. Also they should be aware that she is receiving benefits which means that they should know that they are not allowed to appropriate them.

 

I think that there may be a lot to go on but you need to give us some answers and some better details

[BankFodder]

I've just noticed that in your first post you say that she has a basic account and in a later post you say that she has a Classic account.

Please clarify.

Ta

[madpriest]

@bankfodder - thanks for helping me focus on whats important and to merge my threads.

 

The young lady opened the account POST-18. I can find no evidence that it was done PRE-18 although I am going to treble check.

 

The account is actually a classic. My fault - I assumed (wrongly) it was a basic because she was so young and on JSA benefits.

 

The loan through MYLOAN failed and she has now been refunded the £69.99.

 

The MYLOAN 'fee' of £69.99 originally, took the account O/D. There was no O/D agreement in place.

 

The account came back into credit for a time.

 

When Lloyds decided to take their £76.00 out in fees, it took the account O/D again

 

They then sent a letter saying they were granting "Unplanned Overdraft"

 

My initial actions to help this young lady is to (a) do a subject access request and send them £10 (b) do a credit check although I dont know how

© immediately do a Letter of Appropriation

 

It is clear from her statements that the income is from Benefits but I guess without the Letter of Appropriation, we can do nothing.

 

Should we get the account changed to a BASIC or leave it as is?

 

I'll try and get some more data but I think you have it as far as we have it.

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

187 Certain benefit to be inalienable

(1)Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of or charge on—

(a)benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b)any income-related benefit; or

©child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of a beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/5/section/187/enacted

[BankFodder]

You need to find out how the account was sold to her.

 

If she laid it all out for them to see then the classic account is an inappropriate product - BCOBS

If she told porkies then it could be a bit more tricky.

 

Check that the benefit she is on is of the type contemplated by section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act in which case they have breached that Act as well and we can also turn to BCOBS as well.

 

The letter of appropriation is helpful but not completely necessary where the money is from benefits. Appropriation can refer even to earned income where that income has to be reserved for certain priority commitments.

[madpriest]

@bankfodder

 

Something about "great minds think alike.."

 

I was only looking at the relevant provisions of the Social Security Administration Act

as you were typing your response

 

Originally I think that these provisions were to stop creditors taking the child benefit book

as a security which is a bit different. Having said that it appears that the provisions still apply

and is another weapon for our armory.

 

The girl also has a few friends who send her a few quid here and there and so

I wonder whether the letter of appropriation would still be a good thing

 

The letter would certainly stop future charges and I could use the Social Security Administration Act as

a way to get the £76 back.

 

Actually I would be more than happy to give the girl the £76 if she would allow

me to run her case. I'd love to do a UTCCR or a CCA action but I think that

would require a good brief.

 

BCOBS? Possibly but I'm going to run one of those with Santander

 

Bless

[BankFodder]

You need to do the following things.

 

Write to the bank and complain that she has been given an inappropriate product. She needs an immediate transfer to a basic account.

This must be done in writing. Lloyds won't want to do this.

 

You must get the history of the account setup from her ASAP.

 

I don't think at all that you need legal help for either a UTVVR claim or a CCA claim - but these aren't the way forward in this case.

BCOBS is the way forward. It is the natural vehicle for exactly this kind of situation - very simple and very straightforward. I don't see why a BCOBS action against Santander should prevent one against Lloyds.

Bcobalypse Now!

[madpriest]

More important information.

 

The account was opened in Sept 2010 when she was just 16

They did not offer any other accounts but knew she was going to get JSA even though only

16 as she was moving into supported housing and needed an account.

 

I want to to a SAR to get all the paperwork because she does tell a lot of porkies

and I need to see some proof.

 

We will write to change this account to basic and see where we go from there

 

Cheers

[BankFodder]

I think that your letter requiring the change should express complaint right now.

I think that you should make it clear that now the position is being fully understood, that they clearly breached their duty to her by providing her with an appropriate product.

Put your marker down now.

[BankFodder]

I think that it will be worth looking at the entire history of the account. If she has incurred any charges - especially pre-18 - then so much the better - it will make life much easier.

 

I expect that eventually they will simply want to pay out the money to avoid trouble. Of course, it will come as a gesture of good will.

 

The question for her will be whether she wants to accept this of whether she wants to make trouble.

 

Also, be warned. Lloyds are vengeful and vindictive and you she could find that they will close her account. If that happened then I would retaliate immediately with a BCOBS action.

[madpriest]

Thanks for all that. We've sent a £10 SAR request to flush out all the correspondence.

 

I'm also drafting a letter of complaint regarding the mis-selling of the product

together with another letter of appropriation and also a letter warning them of the social-security acts

 

Watch this space

[BankFodder]

You had better look at this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?208195-HSBC-Social-Security-Administration-act-1992

[madpriest]

Thanks for that. I'm afraid I believe that the man from the bank is right.

 

The use of the word 'charge' in the Act, refers to a 'charge on the account' as in the way of debt, e.g. A bank could be said to have a 'first charge' on a house of which it provides a mortgage.

 

What we, and many other people on these threads have confused, is with 'charges' of which the bank claims on overdrafts etc etc.

 

Having said that the local bank accepted the letter and said they would raise no more charges.

 

We will see - one thing we need to remember that unless you have sound legal advice from a qualified person, all advice on this board or elsewhere should be consumed with the appropriate grains of salt!

 

 

Blessings