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Thanks dx

 

I am still at a loss as to how to state on my counter claim how much I actually owe

Would it be £4681 - (£130 x number of payments I made)

 

I am guessing if I am counterclaiming it needs to be

a) correct and

b) a specific amount

 

Thanks

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just total your payments actually made

 

take them away from 4681.02

 

that leaves any outstanding

that's the best you can do

unless IMS21 knows diff?

 

using this:

http://money.guardian.co.uk/calculator/form/0,,603119,00.html

 

I got:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Remember

 

The prescribed terms deficiency in an agreement is only applicable to agreements taken out before April 2007.

 

Any agreement taken out after this date comes under the CCA 2006 and section 127(3) has now been omitted

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Sorry postggj you have lost me. Is that with respect to the un-en cca?

 

I was going to ask whether that should be something that goes in my defence?

 

Also, not sure if these points are relevant ...

I didn't receive a default notice but I got sent a copy and all the charges are contained within the sum owing

I didn't receive the letter before action but again I got a copy in the POC, and the action was taken on the day before the letter says it was. Not sure if relevant.

As far as I can see there is no mention of a default or this agreement on my credit files either.

I don't want to draw attention to this though as that is good news for my cr.

 

Thanks for the maths help dx

This weekend is dedicated to getting my defence and cc drafted in full for review

 

Thanks

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Before I start writing I thought I would get all my figures in one place to work from

 

I know we have been round this already but I just can't come up with the right figure to minus off the arrears that represents the remaining part of the PPI. My brain just can't do the maths

 

So we have worked out that the total loan amount without PPI was £4681

And payments made to date are £5346 (£2935 total pre-action)

 

I have the loan behavior link on the Guardian website, but I don't know how to apply that info to what I need to work out.

Spent all evening on this and going round in circles

 

Thanks

 

(CC1 is scenario 1 – PPI reclaim for just one loan)

(CC2 is scenario 2 – PPI reclaim for loan 1 + 2 +3)

Not sure which to go for yet

Edited by msted
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ok I thought you might have worked it out.....

 

the org loan cost you £7810.92

the loan without ppi costs 4681.02

so that means the PPI in total cost you .....£3129.90

now

take the payments you have made toward the ppi of the 3rd loan alone

off the above to date ...bingo! gives the amount of PPI oustanding

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Bingo!

 

Thanks very much dx

 

My spreadsheet is now complete so I can start writing my defence for the form

 

Hope everything I have is correct

I'll include all my calculations with my submission so I think my summary sheet will also be useful

 

Thank you

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Andy, please take a look at my first draft

I've probably got a bit muddled with the two sections

 

I have a couple of questions

1. Am I supposed to answer each of their particulars individually?

2. On the form N9B, do I defend all, or do I need to admit the part I still owe?

I technically owe them £2k ish without netting off the PPI and charges

But they owe me £4.2k as per my cc below, so overall they owe me £3.5k ish

 

Thanks

 

 

Defence

1. The Defendant admits that in or about XX/XXX/XXXX (he/she) entered into an agreement with the Claimant and which was an agreement regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act).

 

2. The amount the Claimant claims to be entitled to does not take into account all the payments made by the Defendant to the account. The Claimant's claim has neglected to take account of the Defendant's payments totalling £2569.26.

 

3. The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim includes the Claimant's 'ad hoc' fees which the Defendant assumes are administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions, in which case the Claimant's charges bear no relation to the action taken. When asked to provide the actual cost of said 'ad hoc' actions by way of a Subject Access Request, the Claimant did not provide such information.

 

4. The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes the remainder of the PPI and other insurances added to the loan account xxxxxx. The loan paperwork was signed in a closed room with just the Claimant's employee and the Defendant present. The PPI was a condition of being accepted for the finance. No PPI, no loan. In no way did the Claimant's employee make it clear that the PPI was optional in the Defendant's circumstances, and/or could be purchased elsewhere as necessary.

 

5. The defendant did not ask for the additional insurances and they were added by the Claimant. To underline this, the Claimant added 'Homecare 24’, to the Defendant's loan which would ‘help immediately in case of a household emergency such as roof damage or plumbing problems’. The Claimant knew the Defendant was not a homeowner, and was renting a room in a house and such problems would be the responsibly of the Defendant's landlord. The Defendant was already paying for contents insurance to protect their possessions for such events, and had the Defendant been asked whether he/she wanted to take extra insurances, the Defendant would have declined.

 

6. The amount of PPI and insurances included within the sum the Claimant claims to be entitled to can be estimated as follows:

Original loan £7810.92

Loan without PPI £4681.02

Total PPI cost £3129.90

Total payments towards PPI £1626.44

PPI & insurances outstanding in loan £1503.46

The defendant cannot determine an exact figure for the remaining mis-sold PPI contained within the Claimant's claim, so would like to ask the court to make the calculation with a greater degree of accuracy.

 

7. It is denied that Welcome Finance served a default notice upon the Defendant.

 

8. In the circumstances the facts and matters set out in the Particulars of Claim do not give rise to an entitlement to claim any of the relief now sought by the Claimant. The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to £(total), to interest or to any other sum is denied. I'm not sure whether I need this / or how it should be phrased

 

Part 20 counter claim

The Defendant/Part 20 Claimant claims sums paid to the Claimant/part 20 Defendant in relation to unfair charges incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant which are sums claimed for their administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions, and are wholly disproportionate to the action which they relate to.

 

The Defendant/Part 20 claimant claims sums paid to claimant/part 20 defendant for loan agreement xxxxxx in relation to mis-sold PPI and other insurances within the sum demanded by the Claimant. The defendant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted the loan would not be possible without it.

 

Loan agreement xxxxxx was a refinance of an older loan agreement xxxxxxxx within which the defendant was also mis-sold PPI. The defendant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted the loan would not be possible without it.

 

Loan agreement xxxxxx was a refinance of an older loan agreement xxxxxxxx within which the defendant was also mis-sold PPI. The defendant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted the loan would not be possible without it.

 

It is not clear from the paperwork provided by the Claimant/part 20 Defendant what PPI rebate was calculated and refunded when the above two loan refinances took place.

 

And the defendant/Part 20 Claimant claims:

 

(a) the sum of £303.23 for unfair charges plus compound interest of £109.24 at 42.6% APR to 01/03/2008 plus 8% interest of £176.41 to date of claim

 

(b) PPI reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £1626.44 plus 8% interest of £519.97 to date of claim

 

© PPI reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £701.68 plus 8% interest of £458.96 to date of claim

 

(d) PPI reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £219.97 plus 8% interest of £161.03 to date of claim

 

(e) Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum until judgement or payment.

 

(f) Costs in the case (Fast Track)

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

 

I, the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant believe that the facts stated in this Defence and Counter claim are true.

 

 

Dated xxxxxx

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In response to your salient points msted:-

 

Andy, please take a look at my first draft

I've probably got a bit muddled with the two sections

 

I have a couple of questions

 

1. Am I supposed to answer each of their particulars individually? You either admit or deny any point raised ...try not to add to it at this stage...you can expand in your WS later in the process

2. On the form N9B, do I defend all, or do I need to admit the part I still owe? You dont use the response pack once a set a side has been granted you submit the defence manually by serving a copy on the Court/Claimant by the date specified by the DJ

I technically owe them £2k ish without netting off the PPI and charges

But they owe me £4.2k as per my cc below, so overall they owe me £3.5k ish

 

I will take a further look at your draft tomorrow.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thanks Andy, would be great if you could take a look today. Just re-read the POC and it is clear I have only answered the first one; but I have no idea how to answer the rest.

 

If you could help that would be brilliant

 

Also if the account was terminated in 09, is that when a default should have been issued. Does that mean a dn is irrelevant in this case?

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Type out the PoC verbatim or bring it forward if already posted

 

Default dates and termination can vary...it's not a given exact that is the same date

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The claimant claims for arrears sums due under a fixed sum loan agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant on xx/xx/xxxx

The defendant failed to pay the contactual installments on time in compliance with the terms of the agreement

The arrears balance of the unpaid contractual installments as of xx/xx/11 amounts to £xxxxx

The term of the agreement expired on xx/xx/09

The claimant complied with section III and IV and annex B of the PD pre-action conduct by sending the defendant a letter before action on xx/xx/13 to which the defendant failed to respond

 

The claimant claims:

1. Fixed sum loan agreement arrears of £xxxxxx

2. interest under s69 of the county courtact 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from xx/xx/11 to xx/xx/12 of £xxx

3. Interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1

4.Costs

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1.The claimant claims for arrears sums due under a fixed sum loan agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant on xx/xx/xxxx

2.The defendant failed to pay the contactual installments on time in compliance with the terms of the agreement

3.The arrears balance of the unpaid contractual installments as of xx/xx/11 amounts to £xxxxx

4.The term of the agreement expired on xx/xx/09

5.The claimant complied with section III and IV and annex B of the PD pre-action conduct by sending the defendant a letter before action on xx/xx/13 to which the defendant failed to respond

 

The claimant claims:

6. Fixed sum loan agreement arrears of £xxxxxx

7. interest under s69 of the county courtact 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from xx/xx/11 to xx/xx/12 of £xxx

8. Interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1

9.Costs

 

 

Defence

1. The Defendant admits that in or about XX/XXX/XXXX (he/she) entered into an agreement with the Claimant and which was an agreement regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act).

 

2. The amount the Claimant claims to be entitled to does not take into account all the payments made by the Defendant to the account. The Claimant's claim has neglected to take account of the Defendant's payments totalling £2569.26.

 

3. The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim includes the Claimant's 'ad hoc' fees which the Defendant assumes are administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions, in which case the Claimant's charges bear no relation to the action taken. When asked to provide the actual cost of said 'ad hoc' actions by way of a Subject Access Request, the Claimant did not provide such information.

 

4. The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes the remainder of the PPI and other insurances added to the loan account xxxxxx. The loan paperwork was signed in a closed room with just the Claimant's employee and the Defendant present. The PPI was a condition of being accepted for the finance. No PPI, no loan. In no way did the Claimant's employee make it clear that the PPI was optional in the Defendant's circumstances, and/or could be purchased elsewhere as necessary.

 

5. The defendant did not ask for the additional insurances and they were added by the Claimant. To underline this, the Claimant added 'Homecare 24’, to the Defendant's loan which would ‘help immediately in case of a household emergency such as roof damage or plumbing problems’. The Claimant knew the Defendant was not a homeowner, and was renting a room in a house and such problems would be the responsibly of the Defendant's landlord. The Defendant was already paying for contents insurance to protect their possessions for such events, and had the Defendant been asked whether he/she wanted to take extra insurances, the Defendant would have declined.

 

6. The amount of PPI and insurances included within the sum the Claimant claims to be entitled to can be estimated as follows:

Original loan £7810.92

Loan without PPI £4681.02

Total PPI cost £3129.90

Total payments towards PPI £1626.44

PPI & insurances outstanding in loan £1503.46

The defendant cannot determine an exact figure for the remaining mis-sold PPI contained within the Claimant's claim, so would like to ask the court to make the calculation with a greater degree of accuracy.

 

7. It is denied that Welcome Finance served a default notice upon the Defendant.

 

8. In the circumstances the facts and matters set out in the Particulars of Claim do not give rise to an entitlement to claim any of the relief now sought by the Claimant. The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to £(total), to interest or to any other sum is denied. I'm not sure whether I need this / or how it should be phrased

 

Part 20 counter claim

The Defendant/Part 20 Claimant claims sums paid to the Claimant/part 20 Defendant in relation to unfair charges incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant which are sums claimed for their administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions, and are wholly disproportionate to the action which they relate to.

 

The Defendant/Part 20 claimant claims sums paid to claimant/part 20 defendant for loan agreement xxxxxx in relation to mis-sold PPI and other insurances within the sum demanded by the Claimant. The defendant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted the loan would not be possible without it.

 

Loan agreement xxxxxx was a refinance of an older loan agreement xxxxxxxx within which the defendant was also mis-sold PPI. The defendant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted the loan would not be possible without it.

 

Loan agreement xxxxxx was a refinance of an older loan agreement xxxxxxxx within which the defendant was also mis-sold PPI. The defendant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted the loan would not be possible without it.

 

It is not clear from the paperwork provided by the Claimant/part 20 Defendant what PPI rebate was calculated and refunded when the above two loan refinances took place.

 

And the defendant/Part 20 Claimant claims:

 

(a) the sum of £303.23 for unfair charges plus compound interest of £109.24 at 42.6% APR to 01/03/2008 plus 8% interest of £176.41 to date of claim

 

(b) PPI reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £1626.44 plus 8% interest of £519.97 to date of claim

 

© PPI reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £701.68 plus 8% interest of £458.96 to date of claim

 

(d) PPI reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £219.97 plus 8% interest of £161.03 to date of claim

 

(e) Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum until judgement or payment.

 

(f) Costs in the case (Fast Track)

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

 

I, the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant believe that the facts stated in this Defence and Counter claim are true.

 

 

Dated xxxxxx

 

The claimant claims for arrears sums due under a fixed sum loan agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant on xx/xx/xxxx

The defendant failed to pay the contactual installments on time in compliance with the terms of the agreement

The arrears balance of the unpaid contractual installments as of xx/xx/11 amounts to £xxxxx

The term of the agreement expired on xx/xx/09

The claimant complied with section III and IV and annex B of the PD pre-action conduct by sending the defendant a letter before action on xx/xx/13 to which the defendant failed to respond

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Just bring both together to compare.I have renumbered their PoC check your numbers/responses now match

 

Andy

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Andy, I have added my defence in red below each of their particulars.

 

Is this what you mean? There are points I have no idea how to answer (where I have put ??)

 

I'm still very confused about what I am doing. Is there a guide anywhere you could refer me to?

So just to be clear, I need to go through each of their points, and answer them, before starting my CC pt 20

 

 

1.The claimant claims for arrears sums due under a fixed sum loan agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant on xx/xx/xxxx

The Defendant admits that in or about XX/XXX/XXXX (he/she) entered into an agreement with the Claimant and which was an agreement regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act).

 

2.The defendant failed to pay the contactual installments on time in compliance with the terms of the agreement

This is correct – do I admit this?

3.The arrears balance of the unpaid contractual installments as of xx/xx/11 amounts to £xxxxx

The amount the Claimant claims to be entitled to does not take into account all the payments made by the Defendant to the account. The Claimant's claim has neglected to take account of the Defendant's payments totalling £2569.26.

 

4.The term of the agreement expired on xx/xx/09

No idea what to add here

5.The claimant complied with section III and IV and annex B of the PD pre-action conduct by sending the defendant a letter before action on xx/xx/13 to which the defendant failed to respond

I don't know if they did? I received no default or LBA

The claimant claims:

6. Fixed sum loan agreement arrears of £xxxxxx

The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim includes the Claimant's 'ad hoc' fees which the Defendant assumes are administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions, in which case the Claimant's charges bear no relation to the action taken. When asked to provide the actual cost of said 'ad hoc' actions by way of a Subject access request, the Claimant did not provide such information.

 

The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes the remainder of the PPI and other insurances added to the loan account xxxxxx. The loan paperwork was signed in a closed room with just the Claimant's employee and the Defendant present. The PPI was a condition of being accepted for the finance. No PPI, no loan. In no way did the Claimant's employee make it clear that the PPI was optional in the Defendant's circumstances, and/or could be purchased elsewhere as necessary.

 

The defendant did not ask for the additional insurances and they were added by the Claimant. To underline this, the Claimant added 'Homecare 24’, to the Defendant's loan which would ‘help immediately in case of a household emergency such as roof damage or plumbing problems’. The Claimant knew the Defendant was not a homeowner, and was renting a room in a house and such problems would be the responsibly of the Defendant's landlord. The Defendant was already paying for contents insurance to protect their possessions for such events, and had the Defendant been asked whether he/she wanted to take extra insurances, the Defendant would have declined.

 

 

 

 

7. interest under s69 of the county courtact 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from xx/xx/11 to xx/xx/12 of £xxx

??

8. Interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1

??

 

9.Costs

??

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Andy, I have added my defence in red below each of their particulars.

 

Is this what you mean? There are points I have no idea how to answer (where I have put ??)

 

I'm still very confused about what I am doing. Is there a guide anywhere you could refer me to?

So just to be clear, I need to go through each of their points, and answer them, before starting my CC pt 20

 

 

1.The claimant claims for arrears sums due under a fixed sum loan agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant on xx/xx/xxxx

The Defendant admits that in or about XX/XXX/XXXX (he/she) entered into an agreement with the Claimant and which was an agreement regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act).

 

2.The defendant failed to pay the contactual installments on time in compliance with the terms of the agreement

This is correct – do I admit this? Yes if its true but was there a reason...dispute?

3.The arrears balance of the unpaid contractual installments as of xx/xx/11 amounts to £xxxxx

The amount the Claimant claims to be entitled to does not take into account all the payments made by the Defendant to the account. The Claimant's claim has neglected to take account of the Defendant's payments totalling £2569.26.

 

4.The term of the agreement expired on xx/xx/09

No idea what to add here You state ..It is accepted that the agreement was terminated on xx xxx xxx ...but you could question were they allowed to terminate...was the DN Valid/any disputes resolved ?

5.The claimant complied with section III and IV and annex B of the PD pre-action conduct by sending the defendant a letter before action on xx/xx/13 to which the defendant failed to respond

I don't know if they did? I received no default or LBA If you didnt receive any communication threatening Litigation then you state that it is denied.

The claimant claims:

6. Fixed sum loan agreement arrears of £xxxxxx

The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim includes the Claimant's 'ad hoc' fees which the Defendant assumes are administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions, in which case the Claimant's charges bear no relation to the action taken. When asked to provide the actual cost of said 'ad hoc' actions by way of a Subject access request, the Claimant did not provide such information.

 

The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes the remainder of the PPI and other insurances added to the loan account xxxxxx. The loan paperwork was signed in a closed room with just the Claimant's employee and the Defendant present. The PPI was a condition of being accepted for the finance. No PPI, no loan. In no way did the Claimant's employee make it clear that the PPI was optional in the Defendant's circumstances, and/or could be purchased elsewhere as necessary.

 

The defendant did not ask for the additional insurances and they were added by the Claimant. To underline this, the Claimant added 'Homecare 24’, to the Defendant's loan which would ‘help immediately in case of a household emergency such as roof damage or plumbing problems’. The Claimant knew the Defendant was not a homeowner, and was renting a room in a house and such problems would be the responsibly of the Defendant's landlord. The Defendant was already paying for contents insurance to protect their possessions for such events, and had the Defendant been asked whether he/she wanted to take extra insurances, the Defendant would have declined.

 

 

 

 

7. interest under s69 of the county courtact 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from xx/xx/11 to xx/xx/12 of £xxx

?? To be determined by the Court

8. Interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1

?? Only if you have received annual Notice of Arrears if not then no they cant claim that (Pursuent to the CCA 2006 amendments.)

 

9.Costs

??[/quote] Ignore they have to be successful in judgment first

 

10. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

Now start your Part 20 Counter Claim here

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thank you

 

Just picking up on your comments above

2. Reason for failing to meet payments...can I say that loan became unaffordable due to change in employment circumstance that PPI would not cover.

 

4. Term of agreement expiry date. I think that date is the 36 months ie the duration of the loan. The default notice I got a copy of (no original received) defaults me about 2.5 years after the date the agreement expired. Confused!

 

5. I received a copy of lba with their particulars. Didn't get the original. The date they say they would start legal action is the day after they actually did though. They left it 13 not 14 days I think. Didn't get original so not sure worth arguing.

 

Will work on my part 20 again now

 

Thanks

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Good luck with thismsted; I'm in 2 minds whether or not I should counter-claim based on my situation - it's pretty much all fees & interest on them AFAIK, 2 grand loan, paid over £5k back and had £1.5k PPI refund, they're after £3.6k (inc costs)!

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Thank you

 

Just picking up on your comments above

2. Reason for failing to meet payments...can I say that loan became unaffordable due to change in employment circumstance that PPI would not cover.No that is not a valid reason/defence but the PPI is and you could state that having PPI you understood that any missed payments would be covered

as this was not the case then I contend that the PPI was miss sold and useless.(assuming you made a claim on the PPI to cover your unemployment period?)

 

4. Term of agreement expiry date. I think that date is the 36 months ie the duration of the loan. The default notice I got a copy of (no original received) defaults me about 2.5 years after the date the agreement expired. Confused! The POC does not mention a Default

 

5. I received a copy of lba with their particulars. Didn't get the original. The date they say they would start legal action is the day after they actually did though. They left it 13 not 14 days I think. Didn't get original so not sure worth arguing.Then it is denied that the claimant complied with the PAP I never received any LBA on the xx/xx/13 only the copy attached to their particulars of claim.

Will work on my part 20 again now

 

Thanks

 

Andy

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Hope this is looking ok now....?

 

1.The Claimant claims for arrears sums due under a fixed sum loan agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant on xx/xx/xxxx

The Defendant admits that in or about XX/XXX/XXXX she entered into an agreement with the Claimant and which was an agreement regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act), which was a refinance of loan xxxxxxxx, which was a refinance of loan xxxxxx.

 

2.The Defendant failed to pay the contractual installments on time in compliance with the terms of the agreement

The Defendant admits failure to meet the contractual installements due to a change in employment circumstances. The Defendant was under the impression that the PPI would cover payments in such circumstances where the purchaser of the PPI (the Defendant) was unable to meet payments. The PPI did not cover the Defendant’s circumstances, and, aside from inflating the loan to unaffordable proportions, was mis-sold and useless to the Defendant.

 

3.The arrears balance of the unpaid contractual installments as of xx/xx/11 amounts to £xxxxx

The amount the Claimant claims to be entitled to does not take into account all the payments made by the Defendant to the account. The Claimant's claim has neglected to take account of the Defendant's payments totalling £2569.26.

 

4.The term of the agreement expired on xx/xx/09

The Defendant neither confirms nor denies that the loan agreement expired on xx/xx/09. No such notification has been received from the Claimant, and all terms of the agreement provided by the Claimant are illegible.

 

5.The Claimant complied with section III and IV and annex B of the PD pre-action conduct by sending the Defendant a letter before action on xx/xx/13 to which the Defendant failed to respond

It is denied that the Claimant complied with the pre-action conduct. The Defendant did not receive neither a notice of assignment from the Claimant, nor the noted letter before action on xx/xx/13. The only copies received by the Defendant are those attached to the particulars of claim dated xx/xx/xx. Furthermore, the Claimant stated they would start legal proceedings on xx/xx/xx, when in fact they started legal proceedings on xx/xx/xx (this is -1 day from the date they stated.)

 

The Claimant claims:

6. Fixed sum loan agreement arrears of £xxxxxx

The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim includes the Claimant's 'ad hoc' fees which the Defendant assumes to be administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions, in which case the Claimant's charges bear no relation to the action taken. When asked to provide the actual cost of said 'ad hoc' actions by way of a Subject Access Request, the Claimant negated to provide such information.

*

The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes mis-sold PPI added to the loan account xxxxxx. The loan paperwork was signed in a closed room with just the Claimant's salesperson and the Defendant present. The PPI was a strict condition of being accepted for the finance. In no way did the Claimant's salesperson make it clear that the PPI was optional, and/or that could be purchased elsewhere if necessary.

 

The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes mis-sold additional insurances, and they were added by the Claimant without consulting the Defendant. As an example the Claimant added 'Homecare 24’, to the Defendant's loan which would ‘help immediately in case of a household emergency such as roof damage or plumbing problems’. The Claimant knew the Defendant was not a homeowner, was renting a room in a house, and that such problems would be the responsibly of the Defendant's landlord. The Defendant was already paying for insurance to protect their possessions for such events from another insurer, and had the Defendant been asked whether she wanted to take extra insurance, the Defendant would have declined. For all insurances added, had the Defendant been asked whether she wanted to purchase ANY extra insurance, the Defendant would have declined to take any.

*

The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes the unpaid portion of the mis-sold PPI other insurances added to the loan account xxxxxx.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

Now start your Part 20 Counter Claim here

*

*

 

*

Part 20 Counter Claim

1.**** The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant claims sums paid to the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant in relation to unfair ‘ad hoc fees’ incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant, which are sums claimed for administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. These are disproportionate to the action which they relate to. When asked to provide the actual cost of said 'ad hoc' actions by way of a Subject Access Request, the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant did not provide such information.

*

2.**** The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant claims sums paid to Claimant/PT 20 Defendant for loan agreement xxxxxx in relation to mis-sold PPI and other insurances within the sum demanded by the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant. The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant did not choose PPI; the salesperson insisted it was included in the loan and that the loan would not be possible without it. Furthermore, when the insurance was needed to help cover payments, the PPI failed to cover the payments as the sales representative had described they would. The loan paperwork was signed in a closed room with just the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant's salesperson and the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant present. In no way did the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant's salesperson make it clear that the PPI was optional, and/or that could be purchased elsewhere if necessary.

*

3.**** Loan agreement xxxxxx was a refinance of an older loan agreement xxxxxxxx within which the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant was also mis-sold PPI as per the circumstances described in paragraph 2. The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted it was included in the loan and that the loan would not be possible without it.

*

4.**** Loan agreement xxxxxx was a refinance of an older loan agreement xxxxxxxx within which the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant was also mis-sold PPI as per the circumstances described in paragraph 2. The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted the loan would not be possible without it.*

*

5.**** It is not clear from the paperwork provided by the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant what, if any, PPI rebate was calculated and refunded when the two loan refinances, as noted in paragraphs 3 and 4 above, took place.

*

6.**** The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant requests removal of the unpaid portion of PPI and other insurances included within the sum the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant claims to be entitled to.

*

And the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant claims:

*

a)**** The sum of £303.23 for unfair charges plus compound interest of £109.24 at 42.6% APR to 01/03/2008 plus 8% interest of £176.41 to date of claim.

*

b)**** PPI (and other insurances) reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £1626.44 plus 8% interest of £519.97 to date of claim.

*

c)**** PPI (and other insurances) reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £701.68 plus 8% interest of £458.96 to date of claim.

*

d)**** PPI (and other insurances) reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £219.97 plus 8% interest of £161.03 to date of claim.

*

e)**** PPI and insurance rebate with reference to the two loan refinances as above, or calculations to prove otherwise.

*

f)***** Removal of the unpaid portion of PPI and insurances included within the sum the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant claims to be entitled to. The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant, to the best of her ability, estimates this sum to be £1503.46, and, as such, would like to ask the court to make the calculation with a greater degree of accuracy.

*

g)**** Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum until judgement or payment.

*

h)**** Costs in the case (Small Claims Track).

 

 

Statement of Truth

I, the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant believe that the facts stated in this Defence and Counter claim are true.

 

 

Dated xxxxxx

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Hope you do not mind me butting in on this

 

Hagarty are taking action on behalf of IND

 

Welcome gave all there accounts to IND to administer when they went tits up

 

These accounts i believe have not been assigned to IND, so no assignment notice is needed

 

This is important

 

Who is the claimant on the court claim form

 

Welcome or IND

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Glad you spotted that mattc81 :madgrin:

 

You are getting rather good at this game of smoke screen and mirrors

 

To answer the question

 

To take action in the court, only the creditor can take action in their own name

 

IND cannot take any action in their name only as they do not own the account

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So IND are handling all of Welcome's accounts I'd wager - which is why we're seeing this trickle of Claims coming in from Hegarty.

 

Which means there's probably a lot more people off-CAG who are getting rinsed on things they likely owe nothing for.

 

Doing my homework:

Julie Ann Simpson has been director of IND Ltd since 13/03/12.

Another director was appointed 05/03/13 - James Andrew Slipper - who also happens to be a partner of Gresham LLP, a private equity firm which has invested in, you guessed it, IND Ltd! He probably saw £ in this batch of Welcome accounts going to Court. ****** IMO.:puke:

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