ESA WRAG sanctions/work programme

[Butterfly9]

I'm writing on behalf of my partner.

Cut a long story short, he is on ESA WRAG (IR) for severe depression and anxiety. He has been claiming for just under 3 years now, he has failed all 3 medicals, but succesfully gained enough points at tribunal to be awared ESA. (with the help of me and his father, and a rep from cab).

 

He is worried sick about the new mandatory work programme and work placements he can be put on, and if he refuses, the sanctions he will face.

We are in no position to be sanctioned, but he is also in no position to be, (well the equivalent) of working full time.

 

My partner is on high dose Anti-D's aswell as going to group therapy twice a week (one is CBT), and counselling once a week. The counselling is 2 hours in the middle of the day (12-2) and it takes an hour transport there and back. The group therapy is 10-4 and takes the same amount of time, if not a bit longer. My partner cannot use public transport on his own without panic/anxiety attacks or just breaking down and wondering around aimlessly. I go to all these appointments with him (luckily they are both close to his parents, so I stay in theirs while he is in the app until it's time to pick him up again.

 

He had been waiting for the counselling and group therapy for over 2 years, they all only started in the last 3-4 months.

 

Partner has been mentally ill since his early childhood, has seen many psychologists/psychiatrists and counsellors, none of which have helped. He has been on many different types of anti-depressants over the cause of about 6-7 years, none of which have made any significant change. He has never worked, never finished a project in his life, left school with no gcse's, attempted college courses but never completed any. When he fails something (which is often), this spirals him into a very dark place. One were he secretly plans his own suicide etc. Not one that is pleasant.

 

My main concern is, if he put on a work programme or work placement, what will they do about the app my partner has throughout the week? Will they make him stop these appointments? He finds the counselling/group therapy VERY stressful, so having to 'work' every day, when he isn't at his appointments also worries me, as he needs a day off.

I'm not sure how my partner is expected to get to the job center on his own, nevermind work programmes and work placements?

 

Partners doctor is quite helpful, though, and I, aswell as him, beleive my partner COULD get into work, with the right help, and slowly into it, however being forced into something like this, is not something I think will help him in the slightest, and I worry it will put him back in that dark place. Dr is convinced we are stretching the truth, and it will not be as bad as we say it will be (and many others saying it will be). I'm very worried of my partners wellbeing.

And I doubt he will ever make the support group. Any advice?

 

Sorry in advance, I'm both tired and very stressed.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Butterfly9

[flumps1976]

The work program should rearrange any appointments they book with your partner if it clashes with medical appointments but I would say that you should keep written proof of any appointments that you have booked so that they have no grounds to refer to DMA.

If a sanction isimposed it ias the personal allowance that is sanctioned.

If the work program see your partner and agree that is unlikely that he would be "job ready" within the 2 years they may even forget about him as they would be extremely unlikely to receive the bonus payment for getting him back to work before he is due to finish the program iygwim?

[SWLABR9]

From what I understand, and in direct contrast to what IDS is absurdly trying to tell people, the WPs get £600 every time someone like your partner is referred to them. That'll be the main point of the exercise here I would think, to get that money out of the public purse and into private coffers where the businesses involved and IDS, Grayling, Miller, Freud, McVey, Black, Hoban etc can divvy it up later, this before the whole concept gets (in my view) correctly perceived as the [problem] it is and is closed down.

[debt4get]

as swl states this is simply an exercise in redistribution of money from the public purse, give to the rich, at the expense of the poor....i wouldnt worry yourself too much about it...they are more interested in the money and if they find that a person is not going to be financially viable to them then they will soon 'park' them and not bother them...there are various threads devoted to this odious industry and how you can make life awkward for them by withdrawing consent etc...have a read around to get an idea...

[Butterfly9]

Thank you for the replies, they've been most helpful.

 

We have both been waiting since the 3rd for a letter from them, every day when post arrives, speaking for myself, I just feel awful, I know the day will come and I just don't know how my other half will deal with it.

 

d4g could you perhaps link me up to this thread you speak of? I can see a lot of ATOS/ESA threads but don't seem to be able to spot the particular one you are referring to.

 

I have my own personal reasons why I hate ATOS and the majority of the horrible private companies boasting how they are helping 'scrounchers' into work.

 

Counting down the days to being able to kick these morons (for a less offensive term) out of power!

 

Thank you again, I feel less like I am about to have a mental break down, god only knows what other half is feeling.

[debt4get]

sorry just got in from work

this one is interesting thread on ingeus who are one of wp

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309173-Ingeus%287-Viewing%29-nbsp

[debt4get]

and another

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?374246-From-3-12-12-ESA-WRAG-claimants-can-be-mandated-to-the-Work-Programme...&highlight=work+programme

[up2meears]

Hi debt4get (sorry to hijack butterfly9 thread)

 

I have a problem with the ESA50, and would appreciate some help........Can you help me please? Long story, will pm you if okay, (and post it after)

 

Up2 x

[Nystagmite]

Hi debt4get (sorry to hijack butterfly9 thread)

 

I have a problem with the ESA50, and would appreciate some help........Can you help me please? Long story, will pm you if okay, (and post it after)

 

Up2 x

 

You're better off starting your own thread.

[Butterfly9]

Thank you for all the replies. Husband has received his first interview at the job center on the 16th January. I'm glad we can enjoy Christmas, but worried sick what they will do.

Husband is beside himself with stress worry and anxiety. Sigh.

[udaymorjaria]

Thank you for all the replies. Husband has received his first interview at the job center on the 16th January. I'm glad we can enjoy Christmas, but worried sick what they will do.

Husband is beside himself with stress worry and anxiety. Sigh.

I had my first last week and I have been told it will be EIGHTEEN months before they will ask me for other please do not worried like I was but it went OK

Have a nice x-mas

[Butterfly9]

I had my first last week and I have been told it will be EIGHTEEN months before they will ask me for other please do not worried like I was but it went OK

Have a nice x-mas

 

Wow! I guess you are lucky then. Suppose it depends on the illness? Husband was asked to go to interviews when he first applied for ESA, but they never MADE him do anything, just asked what he would like to be doing in the future, and if he wants further help to call them etc.

 

Hope you have a nice Xmas too!

Edited December 15, 2012 by Butterfly9
forgot to wish them a nice Xmas too!

[udaymorjaria]

Wow! I guess you are lucky then. Suppose it depends on the illness? Husband was asked to go to interviews when he first applied for ESA, but they never MADE him do anything, just asked what he would like to be doing in the future, and if he wants further help to call them etc.

 

Hope you have a nice Xmas too!

Yes it is all on your medical condition but more then it is depend on jc+ staff is well

I read it some where that they ask for volt. work i.e cleaning parks etc but as I was worried sick until I went to jc+

Lots of confusing with E.S.A and all other benefits no one knows the full system or how it works I think that what gov. wants so no one can abuse the system

[Butterfly9]

Yes it is all on your medical condition but more then it is depend on jc+ staff is well

I read it some where that they ask for volt. work i.e cleaning parks etc but as I was worried sick until I went to jc+

Lots of confusing with E.S.A and all other benefits no one knows the full system or how it works I think that what gov. wants so no one can abuse the system

 

Yeah the voluntry thing is no longer voluntry, it's mandatory, and it's what my husband is worried sick over. Whether it's cleaning up parks or working at a charity shop, my husband can barely get out of bed most days, I'm not sure this is the best way to 'help' him into work.. I think it's much more likely to just relapse him into that dark place, I have every faith in him working with the right help, but pushing him into something full time for benefits, and taking them off him if he can't do it, just seems to be free labour for companies, charity or not.

[worried33]

The work program should rearrange any appointments they book with your partner if it clashes with medical appointments but I would say that you should keep written proof of any appointments that you have booked so that they have no grounds to refer to DMA.

If a sanction isimposed it ias the personal allowance that is sanctioned.

If the work program see your partner and agree that is unlikely that he would be "job ready" within the 2 years they may even forget about him as they would be extremely unlikely to receive the bonus payment for getting him back to work before he is due to finish the program iygwim?

 

your recent comments scare me, am I right now that anyone who is able to attend an interview is going to be reffered? or will they just pick a few out. If its automatic refferal then this is just JSA mark II pretending to be supporting the sick.

[udaymorjaria]

your recent comments scare me, am I right now that anyone who is able to attend an interview is going to be reffered? or will they just pick a few out. If its automatic refferal then this is just JSA mark II pretending to be supporting the sick.

 

Dear Worried33 Please do read my last post it will help as per my last interview exp. with jc+ went OK

Also do not believe everything what you read lots and lots different situ. in this post not every thing apply to every one

[worried33]

Dear Worried33 Please do read my last post it will help as per my last interview exp. with jc+ went OK

Also do not believe everything what you read lots and lots different situ. in this post not every thing apply to every one

 

was your interview before they changed the system for mandatory work programme?

[udaymorjaria]

was your interview before they changed the system for mandatory work programme?

I do not know about system change but it was on 4th of Dec

hope this helps

[flumps1976]

sanctions for ESA changed from 03/12/12

[Butterfly9]

My OH claims IR couple rate ESA for both of us. He also gets WRAG component.

 

So...

couple rate fortnightly: £222

WRAG component fortnightly: £56

We also get HB & CT, but they are paid directly to them, not to us. We get nothing else.

 

How much will be taken from us if my husband is sanctioned for not going to his Job center appointments? (My hubby is intending to go, but he is ill, it may be the case that he cannot get out of bed that day, and I've seen it happen, good enough reason or not, sanctions are happening). I want to expect the worst so we can be as prepared as possible.

 

I am aware we could apply for hardship payments if this is the case, but I also read that's only 60% of the assessment phase, and you have to apply for it every week? I've also read that it's only for JSA claiments, ESA have no such 'hardship payments'??

 

I understand it's an incentive to get people back into work etc, but my hubby is genuinely ill, having our income taken from us, is not going to help my husband get into work.

 

Thank you in advance, hope you all had a nice Christmas.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Butterfly9

[debt4get]

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/esa-sanction-changes/ answers here on dwp website.....wish you both good luck, its disgusting that sick and ill are being made to gp through this

[sadone]

Dear god what kind of heartless bloody country have we been turned into?

 

May this government burn in hell.

[flumps1976]

It will be the personal allowance that is removed but as I'm not a processing officer and don't deal with ESA either I'm not 100% certain if it is the single persons rate or the couple rate that is removed.

The sanction will remain in place until the customer recomplies in the system and thenthere is a fixed period of sanction following the customer recomplying which varies depending if it is a first sanction or subsequent one (1 week for first sanction, 2 weeks for second sanction and third or more is 3 weeks).

A hardship claim can be made on form JSA/ESA10JP if a sanction isimposed.

[Nystagmite]

Can he rearrange the appointment, so he doesn't get sanctioned?

[45002]

See OP previous thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?375281-ESA-WRAG-sanctions-work-programme&p=4079216#post4079216