Used grandmother's Freedom pass and got caught.

[christina2]

Hi,

I'm in urgent need for advice...

but this too is related to a freedom pass...

 

my sibling also an imigrant who had gotten mugged had used the oyster card ( freedom pass) to get to university cause he had to submit an assignment..

 

what do we do from here ?

do let me know... truth is, im not in England. I'm just trying to understand the law.

[honeybee13]

Hello Christina.

 

I think we need to know more in order to help your sibling.

 

When did this happen please and have they heard from the train company? And whose Freedom Pass is it please? Once we know more, I'll start a thread for you.

 

The thread you've posted has a lot of information about what happens and quite a bit about law, I would say.

 

My best, HB

[christina2]

thanks so much for replying..

ok... we havent heard from the Train Company yet.... it happened mayb 2days ago and his really freaking out. its just that i dont live in England and I'm really worried because from what i read the laws are pretty strict and i dont want him getting a criminal record.

 

anyway, the Oyster card he used was our grandmoms.

 

issue is she had told him that he could use it for an emergency. but we wouldnt be telling this to the train company cause i obv dont want to get her into trouble either :/

 

sigh

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Thank you for that. I'll start a new thread for you and hope the guys will be along later. You may already have seen here that these often seem to end up in court, because Freedom passes are funded by the public purse.

 

It's hard to give specific advice before the letter turns up and this could be some weeks.

 

Which train company is it please? TfL?

 

HB

[christina2]

yes its TFL ..

oh sigh...

[firstclassx]

Particularly likely to go to court because the Freedom Pass is funded by UK tax payers, and, by misusing the pass, the tax payer has been exposed to a loss. It is, therefore, usually in the public interest to prosecute.

 

What route or train company was it? If it was London Overground/London Underground (i.e. TfL), you are more than likely going to need to attend court.

 

If it was someone like First Capital Connect, Southern, Southeastern or London Midland, you may be able to avoid court, but this may mean you paying anything from £100-£300 in their "administrative fees".

[honeybee13]

yes its TFL ..

oh sigh...

 

Hi. I've started a new thread for you now, please continue to post on this one.

 

HB

[Old-CodJA]

firstclassx is right in that the abuse, or misuse of Freedom Passes is treated as a particularly serious issue because they are publicly funded, however if you can give a clear and truthful explanation of what happened, as fully as possible in this case, we may be able to make useful suggestions as to how your sibling can attempt to mitigate and tru to persuade the rail operator to avoid prosecution.

[christina2]

well that is the truth.. and he did tell exactly that to the Railway personnal.

he was in a rush to get back to uni to submit the assigment so he used her Oyster card.

if anyones wondering how he could get possession of it -well.. its because they live in the same house.

[honeybee13]

well that is the truth.. and he did tell exactly that to the Railway personnal.

he was in a rush to get back to uni to submit the assigment so he used her Oyster card.

if anyones wondering how he could get possession of it -well.. its because they live in the same house.

 

Hello again.

 

You said you want to understand the laws here and I'm sure the guys will be able to explain. I have a nasty feeling that these excuses won't wash with TfL. Please read some other threads so you can see how excuses often fall down.

 

The truth is fine, but your brother and grandmother have ignored the rules of Oyster cards, which I think are law here but I could be wrong. Ignorance of the law is no excuse I'm afraid.

 

HB

[christina2]

thanks HB for getting this on a thread

 

I've been on google all day trying to figure out what to do. I even mailed London underground to learn the differences of an oyster card. cos even i was under the impression that it could be used by anyone with that persons consent..

 

so this means alot thanks !

[christina2]

yes i know... hmm i guess i would have to figure something out.

[honeybee13]

thanks HB for getting this on a thread

 

I've been on google all day trying to figure out what to do. I even mailed London underground to learn the differences of an oyster card. cos even i was under the impression that it could be used by anyone with that persons consent..

 

so this means alot thanks !

 

It depends what type of Oyster card. A Freedom pass normally has the owner's photograph on it and can only be used by that person. This is a person who is probably on benefits and whose pass is being funded by the taxpayer. Lending it to someone else is breaking the rules, as you said in post no 3

 

anyway, the Oyster card he used was our grandmoms.

 

issue is she had told him that he could use it for an emergency. but we wouldnt be telling this to the train company cause i obv dont want to get her into trouble either :/

 

 

HB

Edited December 6, 2012 by honeybee13
Accuracy.

[christina2]

yes i know... London Underground mailed me back HB.. they already told me about the Oyster card- freedom pass. which is why i wont be dragging her into this.

 

just that from there onwards i didnt know what needs to be done. Getting legal representation wouldnt be possible either because that would be too costly i assume.

 

I'l just first ask him to wait for the letter and then proceed i suppose..

[Old-CodJA]

well that is the truth.. and he did tell exactly that to the Railway personnal.

he was in a rush to get back to uni to submit the assigment so he used her Oyster card.

if anyones wondering how he could get possession of it -well.. its because they live in the same house.

 

 

The fact that he admitted to using it is important, however they will probably want to question whether your Grandmother knew he had it for that purpose or not.

 

If the answer to that is 'Yes', she may be considered to be complicit in aiding him to comit an offence. She does not have the right to say he could use it, whether for an emergency or not.

 

If the answer is 'No, she did not know he had it', she will probably need to consider whether she states that he took it without her consent. It would be foolhardy to suggest that she had lost it (as some have tried), but if your brother took it without her knowing then she may get a replacement at the discretion of the authority that issued her original.

 

It seems clear that he used the Oyster with the intention of not paying his rail fare. If not, why use it?

 

He will need to wait until he gets a letter from the Rail Company asking for his explanation. He will then have the reference allocated to the report on his actions and will know what charge is likely to be pursued.

 

When he gets that letter, come back and tell us what it says. We may then be able to help with suggestions on how to respond.

 

One really important point is the question, how old is you brother?

Edited December 6, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[citizenkain]

one other point,these oyster card journeys are logged on their system so they will know if it has been used regularly going from/to certain train stations and the time of the journeys so beware of saying he only did it once if he used it regular!

[christina2]

Hiiii All

 

so he finally received a letter ...basically it states the incident is now being reviewed and that legal proceedings maybe initiated. he is asked to comment on the reverse side of the paper within 10 days.

 

Thats pretty much the gist of it.

 

what happens now ?

isn't he supposed to receive a copy of the document he signed at the railway station ?

[christina2]

btw his 21

[Old-CodJA]

Hiiii All

 

so he finally received a letter ...basically it states the incident is now being reviewed and that legal proceedings maybe initiated. he is asked to comment on the reverse side of the paper within 10 days.

 

Thats pretty much the gist of it.

 

what happens now ?

isn't he supposed to receive a copy of the document he signed at the railway station ?

 

 

He should reply in writing as soon as possible. If they decide to continue to prosecution and this gets listed for Court, a copy of the document he signed will usually be sent along with the inspector's statement and the Summons etc.

[firstclassx]

You can either:

 

1) Ignore the letter

2) Write a short apology in response and outlining the basics of the incident.

3) Just acknowledge receipt of the letter.

 

Either way, it will still likely result in a summons being issued.

 

If it proceeds to a summons, he will receive a "bundle" containing statements and other paper-based evidence.

[christina2]

Sigh

[firstclassx]

Sigh

 

When you get the summons, let us know more, specifically the offence.

 

In the meantime, I would write a short apology. That said, if you apologise, and they still prosecute, you can only really plead guilty.

[christina2]

ok so he received the summons . so usually if he is found guilty would he most certainly get a crimnial record..? and if so is it stated in these letters ? :/

[Old-CodJA]

ok so he received the summons . so usually if he is found guilty would he most certainly get a crimnial record..? and if so is it stated in these letters ? :/

 

 

You need to tell us what charge is specified on the Summons before we can give a definite answer.

 

What does the Summons allege in relation to the offence?

 

The text will start with something like 'on DATE you did travel on a train without a valid ticket and.......'

 

It will finish with reference to the actual legislation

[christina2]

"attempt to travel on the railway without having paid the fare and with the intent to avoid payment thereof "