Applying for 3 year old CCJ to be set aside - *** Set a side & Withdrawn by Consent***

[MOR]

Hi,

 

Great site and very impressed with all the advise. Unfortunately I'm not sure where to post this. As I'm new to this site I will try and keep this brief

 

3 years ago I had a CCJ registered against me and I ended up paying within 3 months of the judgement, purely because I had a letter threatening bailiffs

 

The original invoice, (from my burglar alarm company), was for the yearly servicing plus for the monitoring. The monitoring is an extra service which I paid for as I used to spend time away from home. I had decided to cancel this service and the additional line required. In June 2008 I received a letter from the alarm company stating that their engineer had advised them that this was not working and I in fact did not want this service and could I reply to confirm. This I did with a phone call and a letter the day I received theirs.

 

Over the next 12 months I kep getting demands for payment and multiple calls to them did not do any good as they simply ignored it. Eventually in Oct/Nov 2009 I received a summons for a court hearing. Foolishly I did nothing as the letter received from them and my reply could not be found so I thought I did not have a leg to stand on. The judgement was made and I paid as stated above.

 

Very recently I found the letters in the loft and now have the proof that the amount claimed against me was not correct, (I did not dispute the service element), and that the company that took me to court had in fact acknowledged by way of letter that this service was not working, therefore they could not provide the service. The invoice by the way was also an advance charge so not something I already had. I have taken some advice but I am being told it is not within the time limits that I should have used to defend myself.

 

My issue is I had no proof at the time but I now do and the company in theory knowingly took me to court for a sum of money it was not due. I have since written to the company pointing this out and requesting a refund of the monies that were not due to them and am awaiting a reply.

 

My question here is can I use this to either defend the original CCJ after so long or even start a new case to have it removed. I feel there is a fault here in the legal system that even though I have concrete evidence, there is possibly no route for me to pursue. There are a number of split opinions on this with advice I have already sought, but I would very much appreciate any help/advice as the CCJ has now impacted me as a job I was due to start has now been taken away due to the CCJ

 

I am keen to pursue this vigorously even if there is a cost attached.

 

Thank you

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'll move your thread to the legal forum, where the guys should be able to advise you. I'll leave a short term redirect here.

 

My best, HB

[BankFodder]

There is no problem in principle with getting a judgment setaside - even this late in the day.

 

However, you have a problem in that you do admit part of the debt - the service element and it is a shame that you did not pay this part at the time.

 

For any other people who might read this thread - if you fall out with a company - but you agree that you do owe a portion of what is being claimed - then you should at least pay that portion.

Lots of people withhold the entire amount - but later on, this gives the company a legitimate lever to attack with.

 

You could conceivably apply to have the judgment setaside in part - but it won't help your credit record - which is the real purpose of your complaint, I think.

A setaside application in these circumstances would be messy and might not succeed.

 

You might just be better off suing for the overpayment.

Has the judgment been marked as settled with the CRA?

 

I'm sorry to say that you have handled it very badly.

Once again, for the benefit of others, you should have paid the admitted portion.

You should have had your say in court and not ignored it.

Once the judgment had been given, you should have paid with a month to avoid a CCJ.

 

There is only one slight glimmer of a possibility - how did you express your letters to them? Do you still have them?

[BankFodder]

Also, do you have a copy of their claim form? and did you file a defence?

[MOR]

Hello BankFodder and thanks for the reply.

 

Details as follows:

 

Original letter from them dated 2nd July 2008 and excerpt from the letter " Following on from our engineer visit on we have been informed that you have cancelled your Redcare Line, which has caused you Redcare to go into a No Response. Can you please confirm if you still require Redcare Monitoring?" Further in letter " If you no longer require monitoring can you please confirm this in writing so that we can amend your contract & remove the monitoring cost from your annual invoice"

 

My reply dated 4th July 2008 (in addition to phone call to them on 3rd), " Dear xxx, Further to your letter dated 2nd July 2008 asking for confirmation that we no longer require Redcare Monitoring, please accept this letter as confirmation that we wish to cancel this part of the contract"

 

Invoice received from them dated 17th July 2008 including cost of cancelled piece, from there numerous calls to them to dispute

 

On advice by solicitor, a letter was sent to them on 30th November 2012 explaining the issue I have with them and requesting refund of £261.38 as a result of overcharging in respect of a service they knowingly could not provide given them 14 days to respond

 

Yes I now have copies of all paperwork

 

Thanks

[MOR]

I only have a copy of the judgement and no I did not file a defence because I thought without the copies which I could not find I would not have a chance

 

The judgement has been marked as satisfied

[BankFodder]

Was the invoice amount charged as a single item or was it broken down into its parts?

 

Please will you tell us how you expressed the letters.

 

And by the way, what kind of job is it that is so picky that they refuse you because you have a satisfied CCJ on your file?

[MOR]

The invoice was broken down into 2 elements clearly showing the piece I am talking about as a separate item

 

The job is for a bank but in the back office functions

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

If they were clearly listed as two elements then it puts you at an even greater disadvantage. You still haven't replied about the wording of your letter. If your letter made it clear that you would pay the service if they re-invoiced correctly - or some such then you might try a setaside - but you would have to apply for a setaside of the whole. If you tried only for a part then the CCJ might merely be amended - I'm not sure how it works.

 

An application for a setaside would cost £60 using an N244 plus their travel costs if there was a hearing and they decided to contest.

 

I don't know why you won't tell us about the content of your letters.

 

If you want to apply for a setaside, I would start off my contacting the other side nicely and explain that you now have the proofs you were lacking at the time of the original claim and that you are proposing to have the matter re-litigated.

Tell them that if they will agree to the setaside, that you will not ask for the return of your original claim fee - but if they do decide to contest it, then you will tell the judge that it is in the interests of justice to reopen the matter and to allow you to defend.

You will have to supply a draft of your proposed defence with the N244.

 

You will be very lucky if you get the setaside - but if you do then take steps to have the CCJ removed immediately. then defend the claim on the basis that part of it has now been paid and the rest was never owing at all. Counterclaim for the money you have overpaid.

 

I rate your chances of getting a setaside as very low.

[MOR]

Thank you.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about the letters? In the earlier post I quoted the contents. Have I misunderstood?

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

I gathered that you had written to them about the incorrect bill - or maybe I have misunderstood - you have been using the telephone?

[MOR]

Ahh no. The letter I sent them was to confirm cancellation. When the bill was received I made multiple telephone calls each time they sent a reminder

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

Right. I understand. I'm going to say that this is another mistake - you should never to this kind of business on the phone without recording your calls - never - ever.

 

I suggest that you send them an SAR to see if they have your calls logged. I think that this would help your very fragile case a great deal.

[MOR]

Thank you.

 

In hindsight there's a lot I should have done and lessons learnt and all that, and I will now pursue and let you all know how I got on

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

Yes. If you decide to go for the setaside, we can help you complete the N244.

 

Try to do it by consent. It is always the best way. If you are lucky enough to get to talk to a human, you might be able to swing it.

[MOR]

Thank you BankFodder, very helpful.

 

I will give them a call to discuss my last letter to them and explain the situation and see if they will agree. Are you saying that if they agree that the amount claimed was incorrect and they have no objection to having the CCJ set aside, (I will also state I am not interested in claiming the money back as you have suggested), that this should improve the chances? And I am guessing I would need some form of letter from them as my defence etc

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

I think that it is reasonable to ask for a refund of the monitoring part of the money. However, make it clear that you won't seek any refund of court fees if they will consent to the setaside. Don't mention your credit file at all. That can be taken care of easily once the CCJ has been setaside.

You would then need a letter from them saying that they have no objection to the judgment being setaside - but with no order as to costs.

 

If you are very friendly, very polite and very calm and very charming, you might be able to swing it.

However, I rate your chances as slim.

[Ganymede]

I wouldn't waste £80.00.

 

I doubt a Judge would set aside the CCJ after this long. Also, don't think you can even set aside a satisfied CCJ...

[BankFodder]

I also agree that the chances are very slim - but yes, you can setaside a satisfied CCJ.

[Ganymede]

I also agree that the chances are very slim - but yes, you can setaside a satisfied CCJ.

 

 

 

How can you defend a claim that you have paid?

[BankFodder]

Because if it is setaside, the judgment is cancelled.

 

We've done it before. In fact the longest period which had expired was a judgment which had been granted to Nationwide - 6 years earlier.

[MOR]

I wouldn't waste £80.00.

 

I doubt a Judge would set aside the CCJ after this long. Also, don't think you can even set aside a satisfied CCJ...

 

I appreciate your input, but whilst there is a glimmer of hope, (even a small one), £80 would be well spent as this is seriously affecting my ability to obtain a job within an industry and area I an experienced in.

 

Let me ask a different question:

 

 

Does the consent to set aside mean that if I get these people to agree the sum was incorrect and they are happy this should not have proceeded with the claim for that amount, this is cause for the application for the judgement to be set aside?

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

I wouldn't put it to them like that.

 

However, if they consent then the setaside will be a formalit. It will have to be approved by a judge - but if both sies agree, then the judge won't ask any questions. It will just be stamped through.

[Ganymede]

If you have £80.00 to spare then you could try.

 

But ask yourself 3 questions:

 

1) Were you served? Yes.

 

2) Was your application prompt? No.

 

3) Do you have a Defence to the claim? You admitted and paid in full.

 

 

Up to you but good luck.

[BankFodder]

If you have £80.00 to spare then you could try.

 

But ask yourself 3 questions:

 

1) Were you served? Yes.

 

2) Was your application prompt? No.

 

3) Do you have a Defence to the claim? You admitted and paid in full.

 

 

Up to you but good luck.

I don't think that he said that he admitted anything. I gather it was ignored and the judgment was a default judgment - is that right?

 

Finally,, there is a very important fourth question which has to be asked - probably the most important of all of them.

Is it in the interests of justice that the setaside application be granted? - CPR1.