VF & Small Claims

[ShaneG2009]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks; i've gone via Lee previously and not managed a resolution so unfortunately i am now at a stage where i feel my only recourse is via the courts.

 

Thanks

Shane

[AndyOrch]

Thats fine at least you have tried and exausted the process.The LBA is far to lengthy and indepth, it needs only to refer to the complaint number your account number/ reference.It should be headed Letter before Action.It must state a time frame which a response must be submitted, thats your preference 7/14 days.If Pre Action Protocol is applicable then this also must be followed and mentioned within the LBA.State briefly the nature of your grievance/claim and what is required.

 

Conclude with Further to the above if no response or satisfactory conclusion can be attained it is my intention to seek a Money Judgment through the County Court and will issue legal proceedings without further notice.

 

Edit to suit.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Thats fine at least you have tried and exausted the process.The LBA is far to lengthy and indepth, it needs only to refer to the complaint number your account number/ reference.It should be headed Letter before Action.It must state a time frame which a response must be submitted, thats your preference 7/14 days.If Pre Action Protocol is applicable then this also must be followed and mentioned within the LBA.State briefly the nature of your grievance/claim and what is required.

 

Conclude with Further to the above if no response or satisfactory conclusion can be attained it is my intention to seek a Money Judgment through the County Court and will issue legal proceedings without further notice.

 

Edit to suit.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[ShaneG2009]

Hi all

 

I have a long history with trying to have Vodafone remove a Default from my credit file.

 

Despite asking the ICO to investigate on the basis of DPA breaches

and the FOS on other issues none have proved to be fruitful

(Vodafone have actually ignored a toothless decision handed down from the FOS).

 

I'm fed up of hitting walls now so i just want a final resolution and i believe this is only going to be achieved by going to court.

 

Essentially the DEFAULT they have registered is largely made up of what i believe are 'penalty charges'

for early termination of the Contract.

 

Vodafone say these are normal charges and stand by them (of course the toothless FOS wont comment on this).

 

The charges amount to approximately 70% of the Default Sum.

So now i the only way i see to get absolute clarity is for the courts to review.

 

Here is a timeline of my complaint with Vodafone: -

 

1) I got a couple of payments behind with Vodafone (3 max.)

 

2) Vodafone added the 'early termination' charges to my 'bill' so it went from approx. £90 to £443

 

3) I asked numerous times for an explanation of these charges, but never got one

 

4) Vodafone set a DCA on me.

This meant i got late night calls that were sometimes abusive.

The DCA contacted my employer and obtained my private work landline number etc.

 

5) During this period i refused to pay the £443 on the basis that i didnt understand what the balance was

for as VF never explained how they'd been calculated etc.

I was then defaulted in Nov 2010, approx. 6 months after the account had been closed

and without an explanation on the charges that i'd asked for.

I never received Default notices but of course Vodafone's system says i was so thats the 'truth'

 

6) I made contact with Vodafone and agreed to pay the full amount on the basis that a full explanation of the charges were given to me whilst payments were made

 

7) I'd paid 3 monthly instalments but had not received a breakdown of the charges i requested at the start of the re-payments so i stopped paying VF.

 

8) There was a gap in payments, during that time no calculation of the charges were given to me.

 

9) I got fed up with the damage this Default was doing to my credit rating / worthiness so i called Vodafone up and settled the remaining balance.

 

10) VF updated my credit rating to show default was 'satisfied' albeit with the wrong date (approx. a month later than it was settled). There was still no sign of the information i'd requested previously.

 

11) I then complained to VF formally via their customer relations and via Lee here. Nothing was achieved due to internal processes AKA Vodafone handcuffs

 

12) I complained to ICO on DPA breaches but nothing came of that. The ICO are toothless and probably supported by Vodafone in some shady manner

 

13) I also complained to the FOS. After a lengthy review process they agreed there had been a shortfall in VF customer service. They asked them to provide me with details of the charges, copy of the T&C's where these charges are explained and £20 gesture of goodwill for the shortfall. A deadline of early September was given and VF have never provided the information.

 

14) I have sent weekly emails to the FOS chasing the detail up. Latest response from FOS was 2 weeks ago and again toothless and gave VF further time to send the details because Vodafone had told them 'they'd sent the information to me, must have been a postal issue'

 

I've looked through various guidance documents relating to filing in the small claims court

but all i can find is for a claim that involves money.

 

I don't want money from Vodafone even though there is a possibility i may be entitled to claim compensation

for the damage this has caused me financially

(i.e. having a high interest CC to rebuild my credit rating and car finance way above market rates),

 

i want the Default removed from my account so how do i go about filing a claim on this basis?

 

Any help will be of great help.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[Ganymede]

To play devil's advocate, if you missed 3 payments why do you think the default is unjustified?

[ShaneG2009]

To play devil's advocate, if you missed 3 payments why do you think the default is unjustified?

 

Simple because there was dialogue going on between me and VF regarding the charges.

I was under the impression that companies such as VF have to be proactive in circumstances like this.

 

All i asked them for was details of the charges that had quadrupled my 'bill'.

Instead of being able to back them up they defaulted me.

 

Perhaps a judge would say i did Default and so be it but i want to know if these penalty charges are lawful.

I read somewhere that a if a default is made up of penalty charges then it is incorrect.

 

I just want to be told that by someone who is acting independantly. I've had no help from VF, ICO or FOS so this is a last resort really.

[AndyOrch]

HI Shane

 

We do have a Customer Services Rep on site for Vodafone..... Lee Vodafone Company Rep perhaps PM him and ask for his assitance.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[ShaneG2009]

Hi Andy

 

I did go through a whole process with Lee but he was unable to help with my situation.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[AndyOrch]

Ah ok well this is very frustrating as I'm sure you have found.The 3 missed payments are the killer (irrespective of any dispute).They will simply rely on the T&Cs of the agreement which you agreed.

Consider clearing the default and placing a Notice of Satisfaction on the CRAs then.

 

Not ideal I know how frustrating it can be but I can not see any further resolution in this matter.

 

Andy

[ShaneG2009]

Hi Andy

 

The Default has been cleared and marked as satisifed for over a year now.

 

My useless Credit Score is 994 so perfect you might think but because of this Default

i cant get any form of credit, not even a Credit Card with APR below 30% so yes very frustrating.

 

My next and final approach is to see what the courts think of these termination charges.

 

I think they are grossly unfair and my point is i dont think Vodafone would have defaulted me for 2/3 missed payments,

i think they defaulted me after i argued with them over the validity of these charges.

I am nearly sure if i hadnt have argued,

 

accepted the £300 worth of charges and paid them off immediately

i wouldnt have had this Default on my record.

 

in reality it is my argumentative nature and stubborness that has probably caused all this grief...ironic really.

 

VF still havent given me any detail on these charges hence why i feel the need to see what a court would say.

[AndyOrch]

You have done a D.S.A.R I assume? They did issue a Default Notice and Notice of intention to file a Default?

[ShaneG2009]

Is the DSAR the same as a normal SAR...sorry confused?

 

I didn't receive one and when pressed they provided what they say is a copy of the notice they say they issued (albeit it was a copy with a recent date on it and not from 2010 when they say i defaulted). They couldnt and havent provided me with an actual copy of the notice they say they issued to me.

[AndyOrch]

Yes one and the same Data Subject Access Request.

 

Once you have checked that the correct procedure was adopted in placing the Default...I see little other recourse.

 

If they have not followed the procedure and placed it in correctly then there may be recourse to challenge them either by negotiation or litigation.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[ShaneG2009]

Thanks Andy

 

I'm going to do a fresh SAR to Vodafone and see what that brings out.

 

I did question whether this procedure was followed in my complaint with the FOS

but as i mentioned in my first post they werent at all up for challenging Vodafone so didnt in my opinion check properly.

 

I'll get the SAR out today.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Shane

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

HI Shane

 

We do have a Customer Services Rep on site for Vodafone..... Lee Vodafone Company Rep perhaps PM him and ask for his assitance.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Under normal circumstances I'd be more than happy to help out.

 

However, as Shane has stated, this is one of those instances where we've been unable to provide the solution been sought after.

 

Thanks,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

[AndyOrch]

Thanks for stopping by Lee and that clarification.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

No worries Andy.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[ShaneG2009]

Towards the middle of last year i was in contact with Vodafone / Ombudsman regarding the filing of what i believed to be an incorrect Default on my credit file. I exhausted Vodafone's 'Complaints procedure' including liaising with their help team on this forum.

 

Eventually i went to the Ombudsman and after a period of review they issued their 'Final Decision' on the 1st August 2012. This decision placed a number of requirements on Vodafone and they had a period of 28 days in which to action. There were a number of requirements in the final decision including: -

 

· provide me with a written explanation of when it placed the default on your credit file

and a full breakdown of the amount that was outstanding at the time;

· ensure and confirm to you in writing that the information it has passed to the credit

reference agencies is consistent;

· provide a copy of Vodafone’s Terms and Conditions;

· provide you with an explanation of how the early termination fee was calculated;

· provide a written apology for the shortfall in customer service; and

· provide a direct payment of £20 as a gesture of goodwill.

 

Vodafone have to date FAILED to provide any answers to the above but yet i cannot get any further comment from them as they've 'exhuasted their complaints procedure' neither can i get any further comment from the Ombudsman. The last contact i had from them was the 12th November in which their Mark Tress said he would chase up Vodafone and get back in touch with me (this was nearly 3 months after Vodafone SHOULD have fully resolved my complaint and actioned the requirements of the Ombudsmans final decision).

 

Meanwhile i am still unable to obtain any form of reasonable credit (current credit is limited to 30% APR car loan and a 34% APR 'credit builder' credit card). I know often my experian score doesnt matter but at this present time it is at 949/1000.

 

Can anyone advise me what steps i can now take to escalate this as it is the bain of my life at present, i just want to be able to have a hope of getting a mortgage for my young family and at present this issue with Vodafone and my credit file i am sure is what is causing me to have xero hope of doing so.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[BankFodder]

There is no mention there that the credit file entry should be renoved.

 

What's the story?

[ShaneG2009]

Hi Bankfodder

 

I have campaigned to have the entry removed but have been met with stumbling block after stumbling block.

 

The story is in early 2010 approx.

2 months into a contract with Vodafone

i missed 2 payments (had a skiing accident, employment dififculties etc.).

 

This led me to not sorting the issue out,

Vodafone then proceeded to add in excess of £350 to my 'bill' when terminating the Contract.

 

They passed the debt without proper asisgnment to a DCA (Link Financial) who proceeded to call me at work, at 10pm, call my employers head office etc.

I told both Vodafone and Link i didnt understand why my bill was now £441 instead of the couple of missed payments and this is why i resisted paying the balance.

 

I asked countless times for an explanation of the charges but never had anything back only it was what i deemed to be a penalty charge for them ending my contract early.

 

Of course records of my requests for an explanation have been deleted as Vodafone only record 'selected' phone calls.

 

The issue then took a turn when i was contacted by 'Yo' from their Customer Services Team.

She was a nice lady, had read my letters and emails, apologised for the issue and told me the Default would be removed, it wasnt.

I was later advised by Vodafones Privacy Team this person was not authorised to make such promises.

 

Eventually after the Link calls to my employer and late at night became too much

i got back in touch with Vodafone and agreed (stupidly now) to pay the entire balance on the assumption they would provide me with details of the 'debt' calculation.

I paid off the 'debt' and subsequently Vodafone updated the default on my record to 'satisfied'

albeit the date they entered was some 2 months wrong

i.e. it was settled in September, they say on my CE record it was November.

 

After failing with letters, calls and emails to Vodafone and their directors office about the cancellation charges,

whether they were lawful or not,

whether Vodafone issued appropriate default warning letters etc.

 

i contacted the Ombudsman and asked them to investigate the complaint.

 

This led to a lengthy review procedure and the result noted in my first post.

Still no response and end to this nightmare in sight.

 

I just want an end to it to be honest, i already had grey hairs but this issue has made me have a near full head of greys at 28 ; )

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Having exhausted both the FOS and Vodas procedures in my opinion your only course left is to send Voda a letter before action and then to follow it through to a county court action.

[ShaneG2009]

Hi

 

I drafted an LBA some months ago but never issued it in the hope it would get sorted. If i private message you it would you review it and see if you think it reads OK and is 'correct'? Issuing a CC Claim is very daunting, i've heard stories of people losing because they dont get their claims legally correct etc.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[ims21]

Hi

 

I drafted an LBA some months ago but never issued it in the hope it would get sorted. If i private message you it would you review it and see if you think it reads OK and is 'correct'? Issuing a CC Claim is very daunting, i've heard stories of people losing because they dont get their claims legally correct etc.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

 

It would be wise to post you draft in the forum. That way you will get maximum input from a number of members and end up with an effective lba.

[ShaneG2009]

Hi all

This is a draft LBA i wrote towards the end of 2012 so will need some updating to cover lack of response after Ombudsman final decision etc. Any input / advise would be great.

Reference: Account xxxxxxxxxx (Vodafone Default Dated 7th November 2010)

 

 

To whom it may concern,

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably and it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

Dispute History

I entered into a Contract with Vodafone Limited for a Mobile Telephone Handset in January 2010. After approximately 3 months I admittedly got behind with payments (3 as recorded on Credit Expert). due to a skiing accident in Bulgaria and various employment issues that stemmed from said accident (Complete ACL Rupture and Shoulder defects i.e. Hill-Sachs Deformity). Without adequate warning my account was defaulted for the sum of £441. To my recollection there was no period given by Vodafone Limited to address the 3 payments outstanding and no notices were issued to me suggesting my Credit file would be defaulted.

The debt was then assigned to a Debt Collection Agency (hereinafter DCA) without proper Notice of Assignment. When contacted by said DCA I contested the balance and requested a breakdown of the sum which they were claiming (Note: the sum requested by the DCA included further penalty charges on top of those already added to the balance by Vodafone).

After a period of disputes regarding the balance I agreed to a payment plan which began in early 2011. I entered into the payment plan because the tactics employed by Vodafone Limited’s nominated DCA was affecting both my personal and working life (The DCA harassed me by contacting my employer directly, phoning me late at night and phoning my parents etc. All of their attempts to speak to me were made in an extremely threatening and adversarial manner). Despite my continuing to dispute the outstanding balance I believed it would be more fruitful and less stressful dealing directly with Vodafone Limited hence my decision to ask Vodafone directly if I could settle the balance with them and not their nominated DCA. This offer was made on the basis i would receive from Vodafone a full and detailed calculation of the Default Sum - this has never been received.

The balance was settled in its entirety on the 20th September 2011. Since completely settling the balance (including the penalty charges which I believed were unlawful and will subsequently argue are unenforceable / unfair) Vodafone Limited has updated my credit file to note the following: -

1. Default is ‘Satisfied’
   
2. Satisfaction date was 7th November 2011 (incorrect; dealt with further below)
   

Since settling the account with Vodafone Limited I have requested on a number of occasions that the Default be removed from my credit files because of the inaccurate information on which it is lodged against. I have spoken to a number of Vodafone Customer Service departments, 2 of which confirmed the Default would be removed (issue dealt with further below). Despite being told by 2 Vodafone Employees the Default would be removed it still remains and is causing immeasurable personal and professional stress and anxiety.

Dispute Resolution

I formally request the removal of the Default from my Credit Files (Experian, Equifax and Call-Credit) is completed without further delay.

Financial Requests

As stated previously in exchange for the removal of the Default from my Credit File I will waive my assumed right to Financial Compensation. That said if this dispute does need to go to County Court I will argue that as a direct result of the Default I have been forced to accept extremely unfavorable credit terms in an attempt to rebuild my credit profile including: -

1. Car Loan via Advantage Finance in excess of 30% APR

2. Capital One Credit Card with APR in excess of 30%

Furthermore I have been prevented / excluded from obtaining a mortgage with my fiancée which is the most frustrating issue for me.

Basis of Claim

In the event this dispute goes to County Court I will rely on the following as my basis of claim: -

1. The Default Sum was largely made up of ‘penalty charges’ which I believe to be unlawful / unfair. Vodafone suggest said 'charges' are cancellation charges that are fair and reasonable as a result of ending a Contract early. I have commented that i do not believe in excess of £300 charges are appropriate when the actual outstanding balance was less than £90. Had Vodafone offered explanation when requested i firmly believe we could have agreed a compromise on the balance and it would have been settled avoiding the need for them to record a Default. The Default was therefore recorded without proper explanation and no consideration was given to my request for details of the 'bill' amount prior to the default being placed.
   
2. The Settlement Date was entered and has been maintained incorrectly. The Default was settled on 20th September 2011 (see attached Bank Statement Confirmation) yet Vodafone has entered into Credit Expert a settlement date of 7th November 2011. This is a Breach of the Data Protection Act which requires Data Controllers such as Vodafone Limited to record ‘up to date, accurate information’
   
3. The Default Sum includes approximately £220 (an exact figure cannot be given as I have never been provided with a detailed breakdown of the sum in question) of what I will contest are unlawful / Unenforceable Penalty Charges. Despite repeated requests for a proper explanation of the charges Vodafone Limited have not been forthcoming. Vodafone have advised these charges are as per the airtime contract and are fees associated with the Termination of the airtime contract. I will argue that these charges are unlawful because they are significantly over the costs that would likely be incurred by Vodafone as a result of the termination and thus they are penalty charges.
   
4. Vodafone Limited have failed to properly address the contents of my letter / notice dated 28th February 2012 which amounted to a formal notice in accordance with the Data Protection Act to cease processing my data and damaging my ‘creditworthiness’. The response given was selective at best.
   
5. After a lengthy complaint process on the 14th August the Ombudsman wrote to Vodafone setting out their ‘final decision’. This letter set a time limit for Vodafone to supply me with information including but not limited to the following: -
   

· A written explanation of default and a calculation of the amount that was outstanding

· A copy of the Terms & Conditions that I signed up to (2009/2010 revision) marking the clauses that dealt with Termination fees and most importantly

· Commentary on how the ‘early termination fee’ and as such the Default Sum was calculated.

The time limit for this information was the 14th September 2012; to date Vodafone have failed to provide any of the information required under the decision provided by the Ombudsman (and yes before anyone asks I have since moved address and am kept fully up to date from my parents about any post that is sent to my previous address 3 Waynflete Road, Headington, Oxford, OX3 8BQ)

Documents Required from Vodafone Limited

In accordance with Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:-

1. Executed copy of the Terms & Conditions that I signed up to when entering into Contract with Vodafone Limited in January 2010. Copies of current Terms & Conditions are unacceptable as they may have been altered from those that were in place when my contract with Vodafone commenced. As significant importance is placed upon the specific clauses of a 2009 / early 2010 airtime contract within my complaint I feel it is only fair for Vodafone Limited to supply a correct agreement.
   
2. Detailed breakdown of the Penalty Charges included in the Default Sum including a description of how they relate to and are applied in accordance with the Contract Terms & Conditions
   
3. Copies of all Default Notices supposedly issued to my prior to Default
   
4. Copy of the Notice of Assignment you supposedly or were supposed to issue to me prior to ‘selling’ / ‘assigning’ the alleged debt to a unscrupulous Debt Collection Agency (note if this dispute goes to Court I will contest this action amounted to harassment due to the techniques utilized by Vodafone Limited nominated Debt Collection Agency including but not limited to late night phone calls, contacting my employer without permission, phoning my on work telephone numbers, threatening doorstep visits without justification etc.
   
5. Copies of the telephone recordings between myself and Vodafone Employee’s where removal of the Default was discussed and agreed on 2 occasions
   

I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts and would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.

In closing I would draw your attention to section II (4) of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days, should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.

[BazzaS]

Given Voda have now marked the default as "Satisfied", and you don't dispute that you owed them SOME money at some stage : what would you do if either they corrected your file to reflect this, OR

If you brought a court case, if this is then what the court decided as a fair outcome?.

 

It is often noted on CAG that mobile phone contracts are service agreements rather than agreements regulated under the CCA : is there a risk here they'll say "we don't have to issue a formal DN since this isn't regulated by the CCA" and "we now have an accurate record on your CRA file, you missed some payments & the entry reflects that"?

 

Unless I've misunderstood, it is clear you want "no entry" on your file : is this what you want, and if so might they instead create an amended "settled" entry on your file that will be accurate and this not easy to persuade Voda (or a court) to remove?